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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

monkeybarry said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Starmer 'ready' to put UK troops on ground in Ukraine to protect peace

Sir Keir Starmer said securing a lasting peace in Ukraine was "essential" to deter Vladimir Putin from future aggression.
www.bbc.co.uk

My guess is we are moving towards the withdrawal of the US from NATO and NATO becoming a European defence force.

This is the kind of upcoming war that the UK will lead on.
Politically it's very good for Starmer.
It will probably see a door opening to closer integration with the EU again in some form or another.
Quite what it looks like with the US, I'm not sure. And do we decide to keep buying from the US, or elsewhere.
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Well Canada and Turkey already make NATO non-European, whilst Norway, Iceland and others are also non-EU.

If anything NATO is looking to grow more outside Europe - Australia, New Zealand, Colombia, Japan and Korea are already formal partners.

Potentially that all becomes the 4th big global player, with China in charge, and Russia and the US as pariahs.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I think Rowling may have disagreements with biological women. A lot of it coming from Rowling's desire to protect women's safe spaces and rights.

Living as we do in a wonderful liberal democracy, you will always get people with differences of opinions. But again I have not seen anything from Rowling that I consider anti trans.

She has spent years a lot of her money and personal time towards helping women's charities.

I did not so much presume but said I got a vibe that I did not feel you believed in equality towards women. But your heartfelt and sincere response has convinced me you do. After which I said I believed you believe in equality.

It is a testament to my maturity and intelligence that I can change my opinion.

The last sentence in your post "what the hell your going on about" makes you sound like your getting irate. So I think perhaps you should take some time to calm down and we can carry the debate on another time. Also it does not bother me (although raised Catholic, I don't believe) but the use of the word hell might be interpreted as a hate crime by some.

As well as equality towards women we should also be mindful of religious people and some of them might be triggered by the use of the word hell. In this lovely liberal democracy we all enjoy and wish to protect we should be mindful of using words like hell.


Have a lovely evening.
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Does intentionally misrepresenting what hatespeech is make you feel big and clever?

The scariest thing about this interaction is that you've probably walked away thinking you've done something here with your insincere word salad. At least your copy of the idiot's guide to gaslighting is getting some usage!
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Well it's not to do with integrity. Some people give off a vibe without being able to put your finger on one specific thing.

Pleased you confirmed you are not, which is enough to calm my concerns. No ones judgement is infallible I am glad my initial thoughts are misplaced.

The were quite a few on here that were saying that anyone who believed in national democracy (brexit) were right wing nutters etc. As someone who believes in national democracy but does not consider him right wing, I was aghast. But had the emotional maturity to understand that other people's opinions of ne are not a true reflection of my outlook in life.

I'm very pleased you believe in equality for women. We are the same in that we wish to live in a society were women are given the same rights as us men.


Oh, I feel all warm and fuzzy now. It's lovely when we all get along.
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Such bol locks Chich, you're on a negative unfunny wind-up. You're the only person in your exchange with Luton who cannot see how transparent your true motives for questioning him are...'give off a vibe' LOL. Please.
 
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The fact Chich thinks he is doing something clever here is the most ridiculous part of this whole interaction. It's good to see people like him expose themselves and then dig massive holes while using chat gpt write weird responses for them.
 
monkeybarry said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Starmer 'ready' to put UK troops on ground in Ukraine to protect peace

Sir Keir Starmer said securing a lasting peace in Ukraine was "essential" to deter Vladimir Putin from future aggression.
www.bbc.co.uk

My guess is we are moving towards the withdrawal of the US from NATO and NATO becoming a European defence force.

This is the kind of upcoming war that the UK will lead on.
Politically it's very good for Starmer.
It will probably see a door opening to closer integration with the EU again in some form or another.
Quite what it looks like with the US, I'm not sure. And do we decide to keep buying from the US, or elsewhere.
Click to expand...
This is very welcome from Starmer, if not downright impressive. He must abandon this notion of being the 'bridge' between Europe and the US which is misguided folly. The US has all but withdrawn from the field and is aiding those sitting on the opposite side of the table now.
 
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thfcsteff said:
Such bol locks Chich, you're on a negative unfunny wind-up. You're the only person in your exchange with Luton who cannot see how transparent your true motives for questioning him are...'give off a vibe' LOL. Please.
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Because I have a difference of opinion on a subject I'm on a wind up?

I quoted his post on Rowling last week. It lead me to think he might not believe in equality to women. He pointed out to me I was wrong in this regard, and I admitted my mistake and now believe him.

Those posts were from early last week and are time stamped and unedited should my integrity be called into question again.

I do not mind people calling my integrity into question, it is the pejorative but I use the posts from last week as my evidence for what formed my previous impression. Which I'm now happy to admit was misplaced.

The defence case now rests your honour.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Because I have a difference of opinion on a subject I'm on a wind up?

I quoted his post on Rowling last week. It lead me to think he might not believe in equality to women. He pointed out to me I was wrong in this regard, and I admitted my mistake and now believe him.

Those posts were from early last week and are time stamped and unedited should my integrity be called into question again.

I do not mind people calling my integrity into question, it is the pejorative but I use the posts from last week as my evidence for what formed my previous impression. Which I'm now happy to admit was misplaced.

The defence case now rests your honour.
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The problem is nobody believes you as you have a history of saying ridiculous things and then weaseling your way out of it. Basically dude people know you are probably lying. People know what you are implying. You are using chatgpt to help you write which is slightly worrying but OK if it helps the English do English better than chatgpt is not always a bad thing.


Keep digging your whole Chich
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Because I have a difference of opinion on a subject I'm on a wind up?

I quoted his post on Rowling last week. It lead me to think he might not believe in equality to women. He pointed out to me I was wrong in this regard, and I admitted my mistake and now believe him.

Those posts were from early last week and are time stamped and unedited should my integrity be called into question again.

I do not mind people calling my integrity into question, it is the pejorative but I use the posts from last week as my evidence for what formed my previous impression. Which I'm now happy to admit was misplaced.

The defence case now rests your honour.
Click to expand...

LutonSpurs said:
The problem is nobody believes you as you have a history of saying ridiculous things and then weaseling your way out of it. Basically dude people know you are probably lying. People know what you are implying. You are using chatgpt to help you write which is slightly worrying but OK if it helps the English do English better than chatgpt is not always a bad thing.


Keep digging your whole Chich
Click to expand...
I'm not using chatgpt to write. That's a weird thing to suggest. You just made an incorrect assumption there. I did it to you recently were I wrongfully thought you did not believe in equality for women based on a post you made about woman's rights campaigner JK Rowling.

I was not implying anything. I said outright in a quoted and time stamped unedited post last week what exactly anti trans comments has Rowling made.

I'm not weakling my way out of anything. I viewed as someone who might not believe in equality of the sexes, it was a vibe I got. I then referenced the JK Rowling post as evidence to what formed by incorrect view. Happy for you to confirm that you believe in equality and my assumption was wrong.

Just like your assumption of me using a chat what I assume is some sort of predictive text thing type service is indeed wrong. I will accept a retraction on your wrongful assumption in good nature. The wording of that "slightly worrying but if it helps the English do English better" could almost be taken as a slur on English people.


But I won't assume it is a slur, because we can see where assumptions get us. To a place of rancor. I'm off work this week and in recovery mode after a concentrated recent period of gym work so gave rather more time then usual for the longer replies.

Have a lovely morning.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I'm not using chatgpt to write. That's a weird thing to suggest. You just made an incorrect assumption there. I did it to you recently were I wrongfully thought you did not believe in equality for women based on a post you made about woman's rights campaigner JK Rowling.

I was not implying anything. I said outright in a quoted and time stamped unedited post last week what exactly anti trans comments has Rowling made.

I'm not weakling my way out of anything. I viewed as someone who might not believe in equality of the sexes, it was a vibe I got. I then referenced the JK Rowling post as evidence to what formed by incorrect view. Happy for you to confirm that you believe in equality and my assumption was wrong.

Just like your assumption of me using a chat what I assume is some sort of predictive text thing type service is indeed wrong. I will accept a retraction on your wrongful assumption in good nature. The wording of that "slightly worrying but if it helps the English do English better" could almost be taken as a slur on English people.


But I won't assume it is a slur, because we can see where assumptions get us. To a place of rancor. I'm off work this week and in recovery mode after a concentrated recent period of gym work so gave rather more time then usual for the longer replies.

Have a lovely morning.
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Hahaha honestly you are not having a proper open conversation. You're too scared to say what you want apparently as you feel you aren't allowed to say things. Even though you are allowed to say what you want on here. You jsut get challenged and proven wrong so often you've resorted to avoiding saying what you feel. Being preposterously wrong all the time would do that to you. I get it. Have a nap lad.
 
Anyone every watched Early Doors the comedy in the pub? One of the most underrated sitcoms of all time........anyway I don't know why but this convo reminds me of a famous scene........."Do you like Circuses"

"Do you like women"
 
LutonSpurs said:
Hahaha honestly you are not having a proper open conversation. You're too scared to say what you want apparently as you feel you aren't allowed to say things. Even though you are allowed to say what you want on here. You jsut get challenged and proven wrong so often you've resorted to avoiding saying what you feel. Being preposterously wrong all the time would do that to you. I get it. Have a nap lad.
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I did say what I wanted to say. That based on your view of woman's rights campaigner I now admit wrongly assumed you did not believe in equality for women which is why I quoted the post about Rowling last week.

Off to yoga this afternoon in Hove. A mixed gender class for the record.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I did say what I wanted to say. That based on your view of woman's rights campaigner I now admit wrongly assumed you did not believe in equality for women which is why I quoted the post about Rowling last week.

Off to yoga this afternoon in Hove. A mixed gender class for the record.
Click to expand...

Do you think mixed gender Yoga offends my backward Muslim self?
 
monkeybarry said:
www.bbc.co.uk

Starmer 'ready' to put UK troops on ground in Ukraine to protect peace

Sir Keir Starmer said securing a lasting peace in Ukraine was "essential" to deter Vladimir Putin from future aggression.
www.bbc.co.uk

My guess is we are moving towards the withdrawal of the US from NATO and NATO becoming a European defence force.

This is the kind of upcoming war that the UK will lead on.
Politically it's very good for Starmer.
It will probably see a door opening to closer integration with the EU again in some form or another.
Quite what it looks like with the US, I'm not sure. And do we decide to keep buying from the US, or elsewhere.
Click to expand...
NATO have never been a "defence force", it's a treaty that means that if a member is attacked, the other members come to their aid. The issue is that it has relied more and more heavily on the US as European governments cut defence spending and reduced their military effectiveness over decades on the basis that maintaining diplomatic relations with the US and their NATO membership meant that they didn't have to invest in maintaining an effective independent military capability.

We could put all of our troops on the ground in Ukraine and the Germans and French could as well and we wouldn't have the numbers or equipment or supply chains to sustain the defence of Ukraine for more than a few weeks without US support in the face of a sustained Russian offensive.

That's why the US are (rightly) getting f***ed off with NATO and Europe and asking themselves why they're bothering ....

Just look at the equipment Ukraine are burning through trying to just slow (but not stop) the continuing Russian advance) and how close Ukraine's front line came to collapse when the US did not approve the last aid package. They were a few weeks away from running out of ammunition despite Europe giving them.everything we had in reserve. We don't have any ammunition reserves now.

The government probably needs to uplift defence funding to at least 5% of GDP to rebuild our capability to the point where we could conduct a major sustained military operation independently of other countries like we did in the Falklands. Even at that level of funding it would take several years to get anywhere near that capability. And BTW our forces were considered heavily degraded in the late 70s and we sent a heavily patchec up task force to the Falklands. The first think we need to do is retrofit both our aircraft carriers with nuclear reactors and cats and traps to be able to sustain operational independence and operate a wide enough variety of aircraft.
 
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Silly McSilly Face said:
NATO have never been a "defence force", it's a treaty that means that if a member is attacked, the other members come to their aid. The issue is that it has relied more and more heavily on the US as European governments cut defence spending and reduced their military effectiveness over decades on the basis that maintaining diplomatic relations with the US and their NATO membership meant that they didn't have to invest in maintaining an effective independent military capability.

We could put all of our troops on the ground in Ukraine and the Germans and French could as well and we wouldn't have the numbers or equipment or supply chains to sustain the defence of Ukraine for more than a few weeks without US support in the face of a sustained Russian offensive.

That's why the US are (rightly) getting f***ed off with NATO and Europe and asking themselves why they're bothering ....

Just look at the equipment Ukraine are burning through trying to just slow (but not stop) the continuing Russian advance) and how close Ukraine's front line came to collapse when the US did not approve the last aid package. They were a few weeks away from running out of ammunition despite Europe giving them.everything we had in reserve. We don't have any ammunition reserves now.

The government probably needs to uplift defence funding to at least 5% of GDP to rebuild our capability to the point where we could conduct a major sustained military operation independently of other countries like we did in the Falklands. Even at that level of funding it would take several years to get anywhere near that capability. And BTW our forces were considered heavily degraded in the late 70s and we sent a heavily patchec up task force to the Falklands. The first think we need to do is retrofit both our aircraft carriers with nuclear reactors and cats and traps to be able to sustain operational independence and operate a wide enough variety of aircraft.
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Who’s spent more supporting Ukraine the US or European nations?
 
SpurMeUp said:
Who’s spent more supporting Ukraine the US or European nations?
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Who's given Ukraine more of what it needs now? Ukraine doesn't need money. It needs ammunition and equipment and brick tonnes of it. It needs it delivered constantly as it is chewing through it and their stuff is getting blown up and used up within months of it being donated. The reality was that when the US support was stuck in the political process Ukraine's front line started collapsing as they were having to ration ammo. Europe can give it all the money in the world. Europe didn't spend on maintaining the defence industrial base and ammo and equipment reserves it needed to defend itself. It's money is worthless in this scenario.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Who's given Ukraine more of what it needs now? Ukraine doesn't need money. It needs ammunition and equipment and brick tonnes of it. It needs it delivered constantly as it is chewing through it and their stuff is getting blown up and used up within months of it being donated.
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It also needs men. Better weapons makes up for it somewhat but the army is outnumbered.
Silly McSilly Face said:
The reality was that when the US support was stuck in the political process Ukraine's front line started collapsing as they were having to ration ammo. Europe can give it all the money in the world. Europe didn't spend on maintaining the defence industrial base and ammo and equipment reserves it needed to defend itself. Its money is worthless in this scenario.
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But Ukraine spends this money on arms. So what’s the difference? EU nations have given more to Ukraine than the US, there seems to be a bit of a misnomer about this. And the US makes Ukraine spend it on US companies.

None of this is a surprise though is it?
 
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