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PC Simon Harwood not guilty

Jurgen the German said:
I don't see how that's relevant. He wasn't one of the trouble makers, he was a newspaper vendor.

Could the policeman not tell the difference between someone who comes at him using force or holding a weapon and a defenceless man with his back to him and his hands in his pockets?

The officer in question has a history of violence related incidents. At the very least, he should lose his job and NEVER be allowed to rejoin the force again like he did a few years back. That cannot be argued surely?
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Well, it's relevant because he died walking along the front of a police line which was dealing with protests. It's like saying why is it relevant whether someone is hit by a car crossing the M40 or on a zebra crossing in a town centre.

In a difficult situation, managing rioters, it is dangerous, what he was doing to me.

When they were rioting near my house, I just changed my route home and stayed indoors. Had I have gone down there and been hit by debris or charged by the police, I would've had myself to blame.
 
Orbital said:
Well, it's relevant because he died walking along the front of a police line which was dealing with protests. It's like saying why is it relevant whether someone is hit by a car crossing the M40 or on a zebra crossing in a town centre.

In a difficult situation, managing rioters, it is dangerous, what he was doing to me.

When they were rioting near my house, I just changed my route home and stayed indoors. Had I have gone down there and been hit by debris or charged by the police, I would've had myself to blame.
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Have you actually seen the footage? There is barely anybody else within 50 yards or so.

Are you saying you actually agree with what the policeman did and the fact that none of the other officers offered to hepl him to his feet? They just stood there!
 
Jurgen the German said:
Have you actually seen the footage? There is barely anybody else within 50 yards or so.

Are you saying you actually agree with what the policeman did and the fact that none of the other officers offered to hepl him to his feet? They just stood there!
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Well, I've seen some footage, but not the one you mentioned earlier about using a baton. Just the shove.

I thought he was too close to a potentially dangerous situation and the policeman looked like he was trying to maintain a position and control a crowd.

My opinion is that he shouldn't have been there, and the policeman was acting like I would expect one to act in a riot situation. Add that to the fact that he died of a heart attack, and not some wound or trauma, I wouldn't have charged him.
 
Yeah, I just watched it again (the link Leeds spur posted). I mean, why doesn't he get out of the way, or show some willing to when he gets a first little shove, or even when the dog goes for him? He's just being a problem it seems to me. Walking slower and with his hands in his pockets, so he gets pushed away. I would expect the same.
 
As I've stated earlier, I don't have anything against the majority of the police, but I cannot believe are actually endorsing this kind of behaviour!!

PC Harwood was subject of TEN complaints: racially abusing and punching girl, 14, and threatening to set fire to her father’s home; road-rage attack; throttling suspects during arrests; and unlawfully accessing police database

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...arwood-guilty-manslaughter-Ian-Tomlinson.html
 
Seedy Ron said:
He changed his route home too. He'd avoided the main protest.


Didn't the second autopsy, and a third that agreed with it, have the cause of death as abdominal bleeding caused by a blow?
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There's not much point in changing your route to one where you dawdle infront of policemen attending a fierce rally/riot.

Don't know about the second autopsy thing.

The other thing is, you don't hear any of the words exchanged during that video. I'm sure he was being told to move and it looks like they're conversing when he's on the floor, being helped by the other protestor. Seems ok to me that they left him seated.
 
Orbital said:
There's not much point in changing your route to one where you dawdle infront of policemen attending a fierce rally/riot.

Don't know about the second autopsy thing.

The other thing is, you don't hear any of the words exchanged during that video. I'm sure he was being told to move and it looks like they're conversing when he's on the floor, being helped by the other protestor. Seems ok to me that they left him seated.
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Have you read Harwood's rap sheet?! He's a thug who should never have been allowed to be a policeman, or rejoin the force!
 
Jurgen the German said:
And what are your thoughts on the fact that not one of the officers helped him to his feet?
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I commented on that probably while you were posting.

I think it was ok, there was someone else there helping him and the large crowd of other people would've been the main concern.

I don't think it really matters that they didn't help him up.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Have you read Harwood's rap sheet?! He's a thug who should never have been allowed to be a policeman, or rejoin the force!
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Well, I don't know, like someone said earlier in the thread, you can get people adding complaints to your file just to be difficult.

We don't know if his rap sheet is any better or worse than any other policeman involved in hands on arrests and riots.

Could be they average 20 complaints over the same period of time.
 
Orbital said:
Well, I don't know, like someone said earlier in the thread, you can get people adding complaints to your file just to be difficult.

We don't know if his rap sheet is any better or worse than any other policeman involved in hands on arrests and riots.

Could be they average 20 complaints over the same period of time.
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If this was a case involving a policeman with a clean record and the case had been followed to by the letter by the police, then I would not be so critical. But Harwood has previous with violent incidents, road rage, unlawfully using the police computer to track down the person who pranged his wife car! The list goes on. The police intentionally dragged their feet with this case when it initially happened so Harwood wouldn't face harsher charges. He was allowed to retire from the Met on ill health so he wouldn't have to face a displinary charge, he then rejoined a few days later as a civilian officer, he then eventually got his job back in the Met. The whole case just stinks of a cover by the police.

I'm all for people defending the police because they have an impossible job, but people are defending the indefensible here.
 
Jurgen the German said:
If this was a case involving a policeman with a clean record and the case had been followed to by the letter by the police, then I would not be so critical. But Harwood has previous with violent incidents, road rage, unlawfully using the police computer to track down the person who pranged his wife car! The list goes on. The police intentionally dragged their feet with this case when it initially happened so Harwood wouldn't face harsher charges. He was allowed to retire from the Met on ill health so he wouldn't have to face a displinary charge, he then rejoined a few days later as a civilian officer, he then eventually got his job back in the Met. The whole case just stinks of a cover by the police.

I'm all for people defending the police because they have an impossible job, but people are defending the indefensible here.
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It's not indefensible though. They managed it in a court of law with all the relevant facts they wanted.
 
Orbital said:
It's not indefensible though. They managed it in a court of law with all the relevant facts they wanted.
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Did you read what the rest of my post?

Do you believe that given his record of transgressions that this officer is fit to be a police officer and charged with the duty of protecting the public?
 
Orbital said:
There's not much point in changing your route to one where you dawdle infront of policemen attending a fierce rally/riot.
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The police in question were on a sweep of an area away from the main protest, is he supposed to know the location of every single police officer on duty in that area of London?

As I said earlier, I don't know if this should be manslaughter, since I don't really know what constitutes it tbh, but having a badge and a riot kit doesn't give you a green light to do whatever you like.
 
Seedy Ron said:
The police in question were on a sweep of an area away from the main protest, is he supposed to know the location of every single police officer on duty in that area of London?

As I said earlier, I don't know if this should be manslaughter, since I don't really know what constitutes it tbh, but having a badge and a riot kit doesn't give you a green light to do whatever you like.
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You can see he was obstructing their sweep in the video. That is my point
 
Seedy Ron said:
He's walking in the same direction as them? How is that obstructing them?
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In the same fashion that if you are driving at 30 miles an hour down a road to your destination, someone pulls out of a turning and drives infront of you at 10 miles an hour.

Your journey is obstructed by that dawdling idiot in front of you.
 
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