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Paulinho

just read an article with quotes from Tim Vickery, basically stating we are writing off Paulie too soon, stating that his struggles are because the striker does not show for the ball , as no relationship with the striker and playing with inverted wingers does not help either, Paulie would be better in a system with our full backs bombing on, going on to say that Paulie cant create something out of nothing. He maintains that Corinthians have missed him like mad his assists and goals and he states that Chelsea maintain an interest in this player.

I respect Vickery and I appreciate he is definitely more knowledgeable on south american footballers than I am, I think I have only seen one performance from him that gave me any hope for him and that was Stoke (h) last year....The hiding and most importantly his ducking out of 50/50 challenges is why I am not endeared to him.

how many think there is a way back for this lad? do people think we could have egg on our face if we sold him and he does it for another epl club? does anyone think in a years time we will all be begging Paulie for forgiveness and he will be hailed as one of our best and most effective players?
 
Nigeyman said:
just read an article with quotes from Tim Vickery, basically stating we are writing off Paulie too soon, stating that his struggles are because the striker does not show for the ball , as no relationship with the striker and playing with inverted wingers does not help either, Paulie would be better in a system with our full backs bombing on, going on to say that Paulie cant create something out of nothing. He maintains that Corinthians have missed him like mad his assists and goals and he states that Chelsea maintain an interest in this player.

I respect Vickery and I appreciate he is definitely more knowledgeable on south american footballers than I am, I think I have only seen one performance from him that gave me any hope for him and that was Stoke (h) last year....The hiding and most importantly his ducking out of 50/50 challenges is why I am not endeared to him.

how many think there is a way back for this lad? do people think we could have egg on our face if we sold him and he does it for another epl club? does anyone think in a years time we will all be begging Paulie for forgiveness and he will be hailed as one of our best and most effective players?
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Have you got a link to the article?

I can't imagine my opinion of him changing - I've never been impressed by him, including at the Confederations Cup. As you allude to, his inability / lack of desire to get involved in build up just seems too fundamental a weakness to me.

Plus according to Wikipedia he only scored an average of 6 league goals a season for Corinthians - same as in his first season for us. Only 5 in 32 for Brazil too.
 
Nigeyman said:
just read an article with quotes from Tim Vickery, basically stating we are writing off Paulie too soon, stating that his struggles are because the striker does not show for the ball , as no relationship with the striker and playing with inverted wingers does not help either, Paulie would be better in a system with our full backs bombing on, going on to say that Paulie cant create something out of nothing. He maintains that Corinthians have missed him like mad his assists and goals and he states that Chelsea maintain an interest in this player.

I respect Vickery and I appreciate he is definitely more knowledgeable on south american footballers than I am, I think I have only seen one performance from him that gave me any hope for him and that was Stoke (h) last year....The hiding and most importantly his ducking out of 50/50 challenges is why I am not endeared to him.

how many think there is a way back for this lad? do people think we could have egg on our face if we sold him and he does it for another epl club? does anyone think in a years time we will all be begging Paulie for forgiveness and he will be hailed as one of our best and most effective players?
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Vickery certainly knows his stuff, maybe we arent getting the best of him, but were not going to change our strategy to suit one player, especially one who isnt world class, if it was Bale it would be different, thats why for me he has to go in January
 
elltrev said:
Have you got a link to the article?
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I'm guessing that it is this

http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014...all-expert-tottenham-cant-let-paulinho-thriv/

South American football expert: Tottenham can't let Paulinho thrive elsewhere

South American football expert Tim Vickery believes it’s still too early for Tottenham Hotspur to give up on Paulinho, and maintains that the Brazilian international can become a top Premier League midfielder in time.

Paulinho, 26, established a reputation as one of the leading stars of South American football during his time with Corinthians from 2010 to 2013, winning the Brasileirao in 2011 and the Copa Libertadores and Club World Cup in 2012, before a £17 million move to Spurs last summer.

Arriving at White Hart Lane to high expectations, as well as comparisons to Frank Lampard, he has since struggled to live up to his price tag, however, and fans have grown frustrated with his mediocre performances.
While a potential departure has already been rumoured, Vickery insists that it would be a mistake to move him on at this stage, and thinks his struggles so far are more down to the team’s failings as a whole.

‘I think he’d probably thrive in a number of places [if he left],’ he told the BBC World Football Phone-in. ‘Chelsea are reported to be interested in him.

‘I was at White Hart Lane last Wednesday [for the 3-1 Capital One Cup win over Nottingham Forest], where he didn’t do particularly well, but I don’t think he did badly either.

‘The problem wasn’t him; the problem was Roberto Soldado, who doesn’t show or get behind the line.

‘There are two wingers there playing on the wrong foot, who are looking to cut inside without the full-backs overlapping on the outside to give the option, and the whole collective context was wrong.

‘I think Paulinho is a player who needs the collective context to be right because he’s not going to conjure something from nothing.

‘What he does do is make that run into the box well. He needs that relationship with the centre-forward.

‘I wouldn’t right him off yet,’ he added. ‘I’m always astonished these days in England how much people want to make instant judgements.

SEE ALSO: PHOTO: Tottenham-bound Yedlin watches club from afar

‘Far, far better and wiser judges than myself rate him extremely highly. Corinthians won the Brazilian League, the Liberatadores and the Club World title and he was the best in all of those, and once he came out of the side they were never the same.’

After scoring six goals in 30 league games during his debut season, Paulinho has been restricted to just one top-flight appearance as a substitute this term under new manager Mauricio Pochettino, with his five starts all coming in cup action.
 
With soldado I can see how it can be said that we ruined his confidence and abilities in first 5 months under AVB. He also looks unsuited to the prem.

With paulinho (I was saying this after 8 games last season) I just think he isn't very good. We had a CM who wouldn't touch the ball for 5minutes in a game and you could actually forget he was playing. His commitment levels are poor.

How can Vickery explain his awful first touch, lack of vision and zero creativity (pointless flicks do not constitute creativity)? To put in perspective, Livermore is 100% better on the ball. I mean when he rarely comes short to show for the ball, he can't look over his shoulder and receive it and thus his first touch goes straight back and means his only pass is to lloris or where it came from. If he does it's invariably a bad touch and then he doesn't have the ability to do anything with it so it goes sideways. In a midfield 2 he would get even more exposed as you can't have your midfield hiding. Pathetic player
 
LCLC said:
With soldado I can see how it can be said that we ruined his confidence and abilities in first 5 months under AVB. He also looks unsuited to the prem.

With paulinho (I was saying this after 8 games last season) I just think he isn't very good. We had a CM who wouldn't touch the ball for 5minutes in a game and you could actually forget he was playing. His commitment levels are poor.

How can Vickery explain his awful first touch, lack of vision and zero creativity (pointless flicks do not constitute creativity)? To put in perspective, Livermore is 100% better on the ball. I mean when he rarely comes short to show for the ball, he can't look over his shoulder and receive it and thus his first touch goes straight back and means his only pass is to lloris or where it came from. If he does it's invariably a bad touch and then he doesn't have the ability to do anything with it so it goes sideways. In a midfield 2 he would get even more exposed as you can't have your midfield hiding. Pathetic player
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It's possible that it is down to poor form and confidence. How can you explain him being so highly rated in South America and many people rating him above Fernandinho both for the international team and thinking that we got the better deal when both came to England in 2013?
 
a word of caution on Baldini, remember when we were all having a pop at Comolli for signing dross like Bale and Benni, when you bring players in with no PL experience it can take more than a season for them to find their feet, even more so when you make such a radical change in the first team coach mid season
 
Seems most of our attacking aren't playing well. Definitely something Poch needs to work on, get them making runs and the CMs to release the ball quicker.
 
Jordinho said:
We also know that a lot of the players AVB wanted were well beyond our reach. I just don't see Levy handing over 100 million to Baldini and letting him do whatever he want with them. Baldini only joined in the middle of the summer and some negotiations would already have been underway at that point, but what are new signings good for if not to apportion blame?
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What about on the selling side...to be fair then you can't blame avb for trying to get rid of Dawson when he was still a useful player, and the departures of caulker and thudd ....

Looking at the big picture and netting off transfers in and out, I think we have too many players compared to games, and it does hint a bit if a scattergun approach when you think about how we had gaps and are unbalanced, and after given a year in the job, poch has still players out of position.

Not apportioning all blame to Baldini, but I certainly don't see the value of having him around and I think he would not be a cheap had count to maintain. I think we did our best transfers during the redknapp and levy years, where the ins and outs looked straightforward about plugging holes, improving weaknesses. Sure we had some duds and I accept that, but I think it would be unfair to let Baldini off the hook.
 
milo said:
It's possible that it is down to poor form and confidence. How can you explain him being so highly rated in South America and many people rating him above Fernandinho both for the international team and thinking that we got the better deal when both came to England in 2013?
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Bar Phil Vickery spiel I had never heard of him.

How do you explain no competition for him?

How do you explain him getting bombed out of polish and Russian leagues within a year for not being up to it?

Roma fans really didn't like Baldini for many of the signings he made.

The more I read the more I think we have been duped big time over a couple of good performances in the confed cups
 
LCLC said:
Bar Phil Vickery spiel I had never heard of him.

How do you explain no competition for him?

How do you explain him getting bombed out of polish and Russian leagues within a year for not being up to it?

Roma fans really didn't like Baldini for many of the signings he made.

The more I read the more I think we have been duped big time over a couple of good performances in the confed cups
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Him being 18 years old at the time and playing in two leagues with a large racist element among the fans.
 
Vickery sums up Paulie perfectly - he us a luxury player who needs all the components around him to work otherwise he is ineffective.

Vickey says Paulie is about making runs into the box, and that is basically it.
He is a luxury player in a squad full of luxury players (lamela, soldado, Ade, Townsend)

All of those players need others to perform well and are usually ineffective elsewise.

Oh, and he bottles it in the wall
 
monkeybarry said:
Vickery sums up Paulie perfectly - he us a luxury player who needs all the components around him to work otherwise he is ineffective.

Vickey says Paulie is about making runs into the box, and that is basically it.
He is a luxury player in a squad full of luxury players (lamela, soldado, Ade, Townsend)

All of those players need others to perform well and are usually ineffective elsewise.

Oh, and he bottles it in the wall
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No it doesn't, it says he is in the wrong system and we can't take advantage of Pauline's attributes with inverted wingers.
 
metalgear said:
No it doesn't, it says he is in the wrong system and we can't take advantage of Pauline's attributes with inverted wingers.
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Vickery isn't a holy grail. His judgement is clouded by watching South American football.

Have you actually watched the Brazilian league? It's so slow and the defences are rubbish. I can imagine how Paulinho would be great if people just stood off him and let him have loads of space and time and didn't close him down and how passes were just slowly rolled into his feet.

Paulinho will score the odd goal, he did that for us last season. That's his attribute. But even double figures for the season would be pushing it if you look even at his career in Brazilian football. He's not the Brazilian Lampard.

Lampard similarly goes missing for large portions of a game, but he scores 20-30 goals every season, not 6-8.

Paulinho isn't strong, he doesn't tackle well, he is mentally weak and his technique, first-touch and passing ability are pretty average. His finishing ability isn't that great either 2bh. He does the odd little flick that comes off and ghosts into the box on the odd occasion to score.

So what?

Liability.
 
metalgear said:
No it doesn't, it says he is in the wrong system and we can't take advantage of Pauline's attributes with inverted wingers.
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One of his major attributes is scoring goals - this often only comes about because of his shocking positional sense and the fact he pretty much does what he wants. Even then his finishing is poor. Also to try and say an engine is an attribute is completely false.... Rarely have I seen someone run less and put in as little effort as him.
 
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