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Paris
- Thread starter Danishfurniturelover
- Start date
No
And if they are motivated by racial, or
islamic hatred, or hatred of religion in general?
And if they are motivated by racial, or
islamic hatred, or hatred of religion in general?
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Just my guess, but I think it would be a much smaller story if so. Had it been motivated by hatred of Christianity or Judaism it would have been a huge story.
I just think the mainstream media in the US are very prepared to provide what can be seen as anti-Atheist news, much more so than what can be seen as pro-Islamic for sure. Might very well just be my impression though.
That's what I'm interested in finding out.
From what has been released it sounds as if they were both comparatively moderate and open-minded muslims - it would make them a very strange choice for someone who wanted to target a religion.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Will be interesting to see. I think in some way it's inevitable that as our numbers grow as atheists some nutjob is going to base some horrendous act on his views on atheism.
This though. Not sure. A neighbor dispute seems by far more likely from a statistical point of view at least. Like you say, seems a strange target. That's not to say religious differences couldn't have played a part.
I'm not sure I understand.... You think it's got big coverage? You know that there was virtually nothing on the news about it before the social media campaign that highlighted the hypocrisy in that..... And I do mean virtually nothing...... Or did I completelyyou mis understand you?
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Yeah. You misunderstood.
I was talking based on a hypothetical situation, if it was shown that these murders were motivated (primarily) by atheism I think it could become a rather large story. My reasoning for this is that I think quite a lot of the media and public in the US are very happy to spread anti-atheistic messages. In short, it would sell. Atheists are regularly ranked amongst the least trustworthy/liked people when surveys are taken in the US and I've seen surveys claiming that people are about as likely to vote for a pedophile as for an atheist. Although there's a positive trend of these views changing.
As is I don't think that the motivations are known. As such this particular incident right now doesn't stand out all that much in the backdrop of probably 10.000+ total homicides in the US this year.
I've read very little about it, but a social media campaign highlighted the hypocrisy seems to be borderline... hypocritical... Imagine the reverse situation, muslim killing his 3 atheist neighbors for reasons that are unclear amongst some speculation of religious friction. Then a social media campaign claiming that it's hypocritical that this doesn't get as much attention as it should, comparing it to the Charlie Hebdo attacks etc. Would seem rather bigoted and prejudiced to me to assume that religion was the reason behind it just because the man was a Muslim. Equally I think it's somewhat bigoted to claim that this was motivated by atheism/lack of religion just because the man was an atheist. And just to be clear, I base this on the rather limited information I've seen. If there is solid information that this was a religious hate crime type situation motivated primarily by atheistic views I would obviously change my mind on that.
As a more general point. It's very difficult to know in advance which homicides in the US that will become huge news stories. I think to some extent it's a bit random, but that it's also decided on by the news media that are making sales estimates. I'm not saying there's not a bias there, but I really doubt that there's a pro-atheism bias there. The most obvious bias it seems is the young white girl victim bias, but I'm in no way an expert so even that might be wrong. Seems rather likely to me though.
I don't think he killed them because he was an atheist, but from what I read, religious hatred seems to have played a part/been what motivated him. The worst thing about the Paris attacks for me (and this just my view, I don't expect people to agree) was the fact that the people in the kosher store were targeted for no other reason then the fact they were jewish, the cartoonist were killed because of what they drew, the police because they were in the way/trying to protect the cartoonists, but those in the supermarket for no other reason then them being Jewish.... All of it is f uckwd but that is the most f ucked
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
I fail to see based on this why you agree with the social media campaign.
Agreed. I don't see why their bravery makes them less innocent or their deaths less fudged.
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
I think it is important to note that the kinds of people who killed the cartoonists and the Jewish people in the market see them equally as an enemy. One lot for making cartoons and one lot for just being from a certain faith. The difference is only that there was specific actions involved for one party and the other party were targeted for belonging to a faith group. I find the killing if the people in the market alot more difficult to understand even though I do not think one act was worse than the other. Both were equally evil.
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
With regards to the assassination of the 3 innocent muslims in the US. The reaction is worrying. If a muslim, regardless of motive, had murdered 3 white Americans or 3 Jews the outcry and coverage would have been more vociferous. Purely due to the fact it is better news. And the mainstream media is that callous unfortunately. But the social media outrage pushed it to becoming major news. That in itself is amazing. Everyone has a voice and can be heard if they shout loud enough and in many numbers and what they are saying is of some substance.
Well I agree with the social media campaign simply because if it was a Muslim nutter who killed three Americans as an act of religious hatred, it wouldn't be out of the news, Fox would be running 24 hour updates , and expressing why it's ok to dehumanize all Muslims and that half of the UK and Europe are actually in the hands of ISis. Your both intelligent people I don't see how you could argue against the fact that the media would be going mental over it.
As for the attack on the kosher store.... Like I said that's just my view I don't expect people to agree with it. Like I said it's all fuxked, but to me that was the most fuxked part of it.
As for the attack on the kosher store.... Like I said that's just my view I don't expect people to agree with it. Like I said it's all fuxked, but to me that was the most fuxked part of it.
monkeybarry
Jack Jull
monkeybarry
Jack Jull
DTA - I think you may have misunderstood the last pages of posts, they have all said that the US media WOULD have made a big issue of the story if the perpetrator had been more newsworthy ( ie Muslim), irrespective of whether a motivate was known ( ie Fox news makes up a "possible motivate" to ensure enraged rednecks and petrified Republicans tune in)
This story, of the face of it, is nothing more than another citizen on citizen shooting in a US city - the volume of which is so large it's rarely worthy of national news.
True story - there was a shooting in Washington a few ago. News broke just before I flew to visit family in California. Headline news in the UK.
In CA - they didn't know it had happened.
But this seems to be motivated by religious hatred, are there that many multiple homicides in the US motivated by religious hatred?
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
I agree that the media is biased. There are 10.000+ murders a year in the US though, are you saying that none of them have been done by a Muslim with white people as the victims without the media making a big deal about it?
Social media and the "new media" has some great positives. I disagree about substance though. Things can spiral way out of control on social media without any substance at all. Many enough and loud enough will do. We've seen plenty of examples of this.
Seems to me like you're jumping to conclusions mate.
I wonder how you would have reacted if the setting had been different and people jumped to similar conclusions to yours.
One of the victims father said that his daughter told him, that the man hated her for what she was, what she believed in. SoNot completely jumping to conclusions.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
If this situation had been different. A muslim man killing 3 non-Muslims. Daughter of one of the victims claiming that the murderer hated one of the victims for what he was. Then public outrage and claims that this was motivated by religious hatred without any further evidence. You would be happy with this state of affairs? You would agree with those making those claims? You would support a social media campaign to draw more attention to this and compare it to more explicit terrorist actions more clearly done in the name of religion?
Seems to me very similar to what people do that later leads to them being accused of Islamophobia, and in some of those cases I believe perhaps correctly so.