Parental rights morally

[Grays_1890]

A friend of mine just said that there are more serious issues with all this that have not been thought about, on the route back my son and this guy are likely to be stopped for having different surnames and the mother will not be there with the same name to vouch for the reason. He said even with a letter they could get stopped and have issues which would have been good reason for them to have told me because if there is issue I could have been a point of contact. Short sighted it would seem for more than one reason.

 

[Thebarbarian]

I think there are a lot of issues that need to be addressed here:
first and foremost what the fudge is she doing staying on in Dubai and allowing her kid to come home? if it is a holiday, come back with him or let him stay. If it's a work thing, don't take the kid.

Secondly, do you know her new fella? and I mean, DO YOU REALLY KNOW HIM? does he have kids of his own? have you seen him with your son? does he treat him well?is he a dingdonghead? etc etc . I'm not accusing him of anything but I certainly wouldn't be letting my 6 year old travel with a relative stranger (which 1 year still pretty much is).

Thirdly, you have every right to know where your son is and what he is doing AT ALL TIMES as you are his parent (until he's 16 at least,then you won't want to know!!). The fact that she is taking him out of the country would alarm me, to lie about it would put me on edge and her not bringing him back would have me down at the courts asking for a restriction on his passport to stop him leaving the country without your express written permission.

I understand you want to be fair and keep the relationship as amicable as possible (for your kid's sake I guess) however, she seems to have overstepped the mark here and you are well within your rights to pull her up on it (or kick her in the sponge, whichever has the desired effect)

good luck, not a position I would like to be in, and fortunately have never experienced as my daughter is grown up now.

 

[Grays_1890]

I think there are a lot of issues that need to be addressed here:
first and foremost what the fudge is she doing staying on in Dubai and allowing her kid to come home? if it is a holiday, come back with him or let him stay. If it's a work thing, don't take the kid.

Secondly, do you know her new fella? and I mean, DO YOU REALLY KNOW HIM? does he have kids of his own? have you seen him with your son? does he treat him well?is he a dingdonghead? etc etc . I'm not accusing him of anything but I certainly wouldn't be letting my 6 year old travel with a relative stranger (which 1 year still pretty much is).

Thirdly, you have every right to know where your son is and what he is doing AT ALL TIMES as you are his parent (until he's 16 at least,then you won't want to know!!). The fact that she is taking him out of the country would alarm me, to lie about it would put me on edge and her not bringing him back would have me down at the courts asking for a restriction on his passport to stop him leaving the country without your express written permission.

I understand you want to be fair and keep the relationship as amicable as possible (for your kid's sake I guess) however, she seems to have overstepped the mark here and you are well within your rights to pull her up on it (or kick her in the sponge, whichever has the desired effect)

good luck, not a position I would like to be in, and fortunately have never experienced as my daughter is grown up now.

Thanks for that lengthy message. To be honest this has helped me loads as its given me clarity of mind that I am not just being an arsehole feeling I should have been told the full extent of this from the start.

I need to think hard now about my next steps.

 

[scaramanga]

I think there are a lot of issues that need to be addressed here:
first and foremost what the fudge is she doing staying on in Dubai and allowing her kid to come home? if it is a holiday, come back with him or let him stay. If it's a work thing, don't take the kid.

Secondly, do you know her new fella? and I mean, DO YOU REALLY KNOW HIM? does he have kids of his own? have you seen him with your son? does he treat him well?is he a dingdonghead? etc etc . I'm not accusing him of anything but I certainly wouldn't be letting my 6 year old travel with a relative stranger (which 1 year still pretty much is).

Thirdly, you have every right to know where your son is and what he is doing AT ALL TIMES as you are his parent (until he's 16 at least,then you won't want to know!!). The fact that she is taking him out of the country would alarm me, to lie about it would put me on edge and her not bringing him back would have me down at the courts asking for a restriction on his passport to stop him leaving the country without your express written permission.

I understand you want to be fair and keep the relationship as amicable as possible (for your kid's sake I guess) however, she seems to have overstepped the mark here and you are well within your rights to pull her up on it (or kick her in the sponge, whichever has the desired effect)

good luck, not a position I would like to be in, and fortunately have never experienced as my daughter is grown up now.

I was thinking along very similar lines - I thought maybe I was being overly cautious or misreading the situation with everyone else's posts.

If my wife and I split, there's no way I'd leave my son (same age) in the overseas care of someone I'd only known for a year and I'm fairly sure my wife wouldn't either. There is nothing on this earth more important than the safety and security of my son, and I'm sure you feel the same way about yours.

I don't think this is about split relationships etc at all, it's about responsible parenting. I don't consider that responsible and I would be doing all I could to ensure my son wasn't put at risk like that.

 

[scaramanga]

I was thinking along very similar lines - I thought maybe I was being overly cautious or misreading the situation with everyone else's posts.

If my wife and I split, there's no way I'd leave my son (same age) in the overseas care of someone I'd only known for a year and I'm fairly sure my wife wouldn't either. There is nothing on this earth more important than the safety and security of my son, and I'm sure you feel the same way about yours.

I don't think this is about split relationships etc at all, it's about responsible parenting. I don't consider that responsible and I would be doing all I could to ensure my son wasn't put at risk like that.

Asked my wife about this, because she's the sensible one when it comes to looking after kids.

Her suggestion is that you only OK it if your ex drops your son at the airport (with or without other half) and you are in London to collect him from the flight.

She thinks kid being in a separate country from ex with ex's new bf of only a year is weird and possible dangerous. I tend to agree.

In terms of what you can do, are you named on the child arrangements order?

 

[Craig_J]

Asked my wife about this, because she's the sensible one when it comes to looking after kids.

Her suggestion is that you only OK it if your ex drops your son at the airport (with or without other half) and you are in London to collect him from the flight.

She thinks kid being in a separate country from ex with ex's new bf of only a year is weird and possible dangerous. I tend to agree.

In terms of what you can do, are you named on the child arrangements order?

Agreed. Odds would suggest the boyfriends probably just a normal bloke and nothing will happen. But the point is she's putting him at risk by placing him in the care of someone else and allowing a vulnerable situation when it's completely not necessary to do so.

Even if he is fine, what happens if they break up and she then gets another boyfriend, maybe even more after that? One might be fine but once you start talking multiples the odds start to shrink.

I don't know when you work Grays or what family is about but seems if she wanted to go on holiday with her boyfriend and stay there as well it would have been much simpler to have you, a relative of yours, or a relative of hers look after him.

 

[Bullet]

The thing is, we don't know what this new fella is like NOR how much time he spends with the kid.

E.g. the new fella might pick the kid up from school, make him dinner, put him to bed, spend every weekend with him and THUS it feels like no drama whatsoever for the kid to fly back with the fella etcetera as they've been spending huge amounts of time together every day for a year and might do more parenting than the mum.


OR


The new fella might be a right twot who never spends any time with the kid, doesn't like the kid, wouldn't take care of him etc.


Who are we to judge without facts.

 

[scaramanga]

The thing is, we don't know what this new fella is like NOR how much time he spends with the kid.

E.g. the new fella might pick the kid up from school, make him dinner, put him to bed, spend every weekend with him and THUS it feels like no drama whatsoever for the kid to fly back with the fella etcetera as they've been spending huge amounts of time together every day for a year and might do more parenting than the mum.


OR


The new fella might be a right twot who never spends any time with the kid, doesn't like the kid, wouldn't take care of him etc.


Who are we to judge without facts.

Either way, I wouldn't want my own son in that position with someone she's only known for a year.

 

[thfcsteff]

Is she in any way reasonable or too caught up in her own "needs"? Frankly, she should make that trip both ways.
I think it is untenable that he return solo from there with this bloke, whether you meet them at the airport or not. She should be on bth flights. Good luck mate.

 

[thfcsteff]

Thanks for that lengthy message. To be honest this has helped me loads as its given me clarity of mind that I am not just being an ******** feeling I should have been told the full extent of this from the start.

I need to think hard now about my next steps.

Your simple question to her mate is why she would not want to fly back with her son?!

 

[Baleforce]

I wouldn't want my kids in that situation, I also wouldn't want to be in sole care of a child I've only known for a year on an international flight.

 

[Grays_1890]

If I worked on the basis the guy is salt of the earth, top bloke who can be trusted the issues that are burning with me after days of sleeping on it are 1 - Not being told of the trip in the first place and 2 - not being told that he was travelling back alone with this BF and then being lied to when I asked.

It sticks in my throat really, legally she should have told me and even that does not bother me, its the fact I am his dad with full parental responsibility, we have been on great terms and I got treated like that.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

If I worked on the basis the guy is salt of the earth, top bloke who can be trusted the issues that are burning with me after days of sleeping on it are 1 - Not being told of the trip in the first place and 2 - not being told that he was travelling back alone with this BF and then being lied to when I asked.

It sticks in my throat really, legally she should have told me and even that does not bother me, its the fact I am his dad with full parental responsibility, we have been on great terms and I got treated like that.

Bottom line is she knew it was iffy and tried to hide it from you. When she got busted she flared up because she 100% knew she was wrong and tried to kick up a sh.it storm to blur the situation. Pure defense tactic.

Why is she not coming back?

I bet there is a heavy dose of self interest going on here, that's why she's being secretive. People are like this when, if the truth was known, they'd get pulled apart and judged as being selfish/irresponsible/inconsiderate/stupid...you get the picture.

She comes back with your son.... gauranteed (see her return ticket) or he stays at home with you or relatives.

What YOU think counts, especially now. She'll try and belittle it by saying 'dont be a dingdong' BUT she's the dingdong and proved it by acting like one.

 

[Grays_1890]

Bottom line is she knew it was iffy and tried to hide it from you. When she got busted she flared up because she 400% knew she was wrong and tried to kick up a sh.it storm to blur the situation. Pure defense tactic.

Why is she not coming back?

I bet there is a heavy dose of self interest going on here, that's why she's being secretive. People are like this when, if the truth was known, they'd get pulled apart and judged as being selfish/irresponsible/inconsiderate/stupid...you get the picture.

She comes back with your son.... gauranteed (see her return ticket) or he stays at home with you or relatives.

What YOU think counts, especially now. She'll try and belittle it by saying 'dont be a dingdong' BUT she's the dingdong and proved it by acting like one.

Another part thats just dawned on me is she has taken him out of school which I am not a fan of, I will expect another letter as she did it before and as I am listed as co-parent we both get responsibility on it, she took him to Disney Paris last year and I got the letter and £60 odd fine for it (I made her pay it)

She is staying on for work apparently, which may well be the case but if that was the reason and the reason he is coming back with the BF alone I would have preferred for her to go for work and I have him.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Another part thats just dawned on me is she has taken him out of school which I am not a fan of, I will expect another letter as she did it before and as I am listed as co-parent we both get responsibility on it, she took him to Disney Paris last year and I got the letter and £60 odd fine for it (I made her pay it)

She is staying on for work apparently, which may well be the case but if that was the reason and the reason he is coming back with the BF alone I would have preferred for her to go for work and I have him.

Now i don't want to get your mind ticking but something doesn't add up.

If i was going to Dubai, even partly for work, i wouldn't think about taken my 6 year old with me, especially if it meant he had to be taken out of school. Being at school while away would also make it easier for you or relatives to look after him.

Furthermore, if i had a work trip lined up and i could fluff it up as a bit of a jolly for me and the boyfriend/girlfriend i'd be inclined to see if i could get my kid cared for so we could f.ck each others brains out, get smashed etc (you get the picture)

You know your ex. Is thiis out of character for her, or is she a bit of a liar, deceitful, bullsh*tter?

Who is caring for your son when he returns??

 

[Grays_1890]

Now i don't want to get your mind ticking but something doesn't add up.

If i was going to Dubai, even partly for work, i wouldn't think about taken my 6 year old with me, especially if it meant he had to be taken out of school. Being at school while away would also make it easier for you or relatives to look after him.

Furthermore, if i had a work trip lined up and i could fluff it up as a bit of a jolly for me and the boyfriend/girlfriend i'd be inclined to see if i could get my kid cared for so we could f.ck each others brains out, get smashed etc (you get the picture)

You know your ex. Is thiis out of character for her, or is she a bit of a liar, deceitful, bullsh*tter?

Who is caring for your son when he returns??

Yeh I know what you are saying, there was a train of thought for me that also thinks if childcare was an issue or you was having to take him out of school yet staying on to work why would you bother? Surely you ask me to have him and travel on your actual work dates? No?

 

[JerusalemMan]

Yeh I know what you are saying, there was a train of thought for me that also thinks if childcare was an issue or you was having to take him out of school yet staying on to work why would you bother? Surely you ask me to have him and travel on your actual work dates? No?

The fact that there is precedent for you with a previous fine being incurred means that you can - perfectly reasonably - raise that as another issue around this whole affair and in so doing see if there's an answer about why you weren't asked in the first place.

 

[thfcsteff]

If I worked on the basis the guy is salt of the earth, top bloke who can be trusted the issues that are burning with me after days of sleeping on it are 1 - Not being told of the trip in the first place and 2 - not being told that he was travelling back alone with this BF and then being lied to when I asked.

It sticks in my throat really, legally she should have told me and even that does not bother me, its the fact I am his dad with full parental responsibility, we have been on great terms and I got treated like that.

Mate,

My honest response to your (honest) thoughts there are that those are not big enough drivers in this scenario. She absolutely needed to tell you, but in and of itself, that is not enough to be the residual frustration and anger. The second one is massive, but again, being uninformed and lied to is secondary IMO, the primary issues come down to raw factual safety issues. Bringing a 6 year old without informing the co-parent is not safe (legally it is also suspect), and sending a 6 years old back from the Middle East with a non-relative the child has know for (at best) 12 months without you as the legal guardian knowing, is potentially dangerous. And (I suspect) there is a potential legal issue. And if those are used as your definitive points (raw facts re: safety) then you are untouchable in saying "no way". The moment you bring it to the (admittedly very wrong) issues of being lied to or un-consulted, you give her a cheap "out" (and it is cheap I agree)...if you want to achieve the end goal of making sure your son's safety is not compromised, stick to those hard facts. I would further ask if there are any other disclosures to be made which have remained unspoken/unshared. Good luck.

p.s. she appears to be unable to reconcile her own guilt as a parent with her own desire to live a large one off the back of a work trip.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Yeh I know what you are saying, there was a train of thought for me that also thinks if childcare was an issue or you was having to take him out of school yet staying on to work why would you bother? Surely you ask me to have him and travel on your actual work dates? No?

Whether this is out of character for your ex is important. It shows that something else could be 'going on' .

Is she usually quite open with you?

Or is she someone that worries what someone's answer or reaction may be so tries (stupidly) to do things and think that no-one will notice or pretend it's no biggy?

If it's the first I'd be worried.....

What I'm getting at is......I assume you know what your ex does for work? Who she works for? Has she been to Dubai before (for work)? What does the new boyfriend do for work? As I said before, why would you take the boy with you?

I'm joining dots, you will know more than me, but I hope this is not a recce for a longer period stay?

 

[thingonaspring]

I went to Disney World with my other half and mine and her kids - a year or so ago - Florid. We very nearly had a real problem at the airport over there, because my other half's daughter has her dads surname, not her mum's. That was obviously with her actual mum there. They said that you should carry a copy of the birth certificate, and then there won't (probably) be an issue. So if she knows about that, then they already know how to be ok with it. Just FYI.