Pakistani Fiddlers

[Leeds Spur]

Well, precisely.

There is a problem there, heck - even the imams in mosques recognise it! Yes they're ashamed of it, but part of rectifying the problem is accepting and recognising that is exists - no matter how repulsive.

It's a pertinent fact, that the race of the children being abused are always white - there isn't a mix or a blend, there's evidently a conscious decision made to target and abuse young white girls. Difficult reality isn't it? Difficult fact to countenance right? Flies in the face of racial harmony, doesn't it? A tricky issue, with potential to inflame tensions. But this is the reality, so why deny it?

The interest in this case, isn't because it's some one-off - some statistical quirk which is given disproportionate attention - it's because it's the latest in a worrying trend. The trend being that, in other similar cases, the modus operandi is absolutely identical: pakistani men abusing young white girls. So, why is that? Why is it, that only young white girls are being targeted for abuse by these pakistani men?

Uncomfortable question isn't it? One that no-one likes to hear? But that's what we're faced with here - there IS an overt racial element which is linked to the pattern of abuse. We need to get to the source of what is driving this racist view of young white girls, which seemingly empowers some pakistani men to feel they have the right to disrespect and abuse them.

It's not on, and we're never going to sort problems out in society while problems like this are deemed too uncomfortable to deal with, that it is denied and brushed under the carpet. There is a real problem here; a pattern which is now very obvious, and it needs to be addressed. Cases like this draw attention to the issue, and the least society can do, is use the case to ensure that it never happens again; not shy away because you lack the courage to discuss contentious or controversial issues.

Remember, the GMP lacked such courage to tackle this issue head-on and the consequence was that this girl was abused for a whole year afterwards. It's a time for courage, not cowardice.

Just like the 'kick it out' campaign has addressed the issue head on in the white football going community.....it just isn't acceptable to shout racial slurs at a football match. We need HONESTY here, yes there is a problem, no it isn't OK and yes we will do something about it.

 

[Sheikh Ma Nuggets]

Says the poster with 'Sheikh Ma Nuggets' embossed above his troll-face avatar. Not really a convincing impersonation of a serious deportment, mate.

I've been here years; you've been here 5 minutes.

I'll let you know when your opinion matters to me.

 

[Leeds Spur]

Says the poster with 'Sheikh Ma Nuggets' embossed above his troll-face avatar. Not really a convincing impersonation of a serious deportment, mate.

Bit of a tinkle take to be fair.......and I'm not one to overly defend Sheikh, we've had our run ins in the past!

 

[DubaiSpur]

I've been here years; you've been here 5 minutes.

I'll let you know when your opinion matters to me.

Sheikh on then, sir, and maybe one day you'll prioritise what people have to say over how long they've been around. Won't hold my breath, though.

 

[LutonSpurs]

I am Pakistani and I accept that grooming of young girls is a problem up north but please lets not make this in to a race thing as the majority of Pakistanis are sickened by this and hope that these scumbags get what they deserve in prison. We are just as sickened as the White catholic population is with clergy raping little boys and getting away with it for decades. Nobody should blame Pakistani culture for this problem as much as nobody should blame Christian doctrine for the paedophilia problem in the catholic church.

Perspective guys please!

 

[WookieD]

This is so typical of this type of discussion. Rambling with no real point. Its why its so easy for the racism accusation to be thrown about.

Who is or isnt stating what ? what on earth are you talking about ? We know who did it, we know who the victims are. I've highlighted above why the victims were white. What exactly is your point? I havent seen anyone deny asian men have targeted white girls (because its outside their community so less chance of being caught). White men go over to asia to abuse girls as they believe there is more chance of getting away with it.

I think you either willfully or naively miss the point entirely Golfball. Of course there is a slight element of risk aversion in targetting white girls (remember that, girls as young as 12 years old). However, if you get into the thought process of sympathisers in this case, you will very quickly find that actually there is a disturbing level of malice aimed towards these girls. "They had it coming", "A muslim girl would not behave in this way"... Basically, one of the common attitudes that all of these convicted men share is that these girls are unclean, beyond the reach of GHod and deserve whatever happens to them.

Of course this is a social and religiously rooted problem, it is idiotic to say that it isn't. It's the same as trying to pass off the abuse seen in the clergy as just "isolated" cases. Sorry, it was endemic and caused by the church trying to refuse normal men their greatest and most normal urge, to procreate.

This is a group of friends and co-workers all sharing the same contempt for children, white children, dirty white kuffar that deserve everything they get and because of this, the men in question are doing nothing wrong. If this attitude is shared in other towns and cities across the UK, then it needs to be addressed and tackled as quickly as possible and for that to happen it needs to be recognised for what it is.

 

[Sheikh Ma Nuggets]

Just like the 'kick it out' campaign has addressed the issue head on in the white football going community.....it just isn't acceptable to shout racial slurs at a football match. We need HONESTY here, yes there is a problem, no it isn't OK and yes we will do something about it.

Exactly.

Just as it's obvious that there's racism from white people, it's very disingenuous to deny that there isn't the very same distasteful racism given in return from other races in society. It isn't acceptable that, for example, young white girls are portrayed as filth, slags, vermin - because that, whichever way you look at it, is a racist view.

It's about education isn't it? That's started with some imams recognising the problem and mentioning it in their sermons, but - bizarrely - we're still in this state of it being 'uncomfortable' to discuss. That's where hypocrisy enters the fray: you can't complain about racism, yet shy away from tackling that which proliferates within your own community.

Equally, there needs to be a recognition by the police forces, that racism isn't a one-way behaviour; it's just as easy for a white person to be the victim of it, as it is anyone else. There needs to be courage within the police, that they won't stand in fear of being accused of racism themselves or 'not understanding the issues' just because they highlight the realities they come across.

But I don't see that courage coming any time soon, unfortunately. I think there'll be many more cases which, in order to maintain the liberal myth of 'racial harmony', will simply be swept under the carpet, for the want of an easy life. It's disheartening, because there are real victims involved here; real lives being ripped to shreds and - in many cases - irrevocable psychological damage being caused. And yet, in full sight of that, some just don't have the courage of their convictions and pander to a political agenda instead. It's a total disgrace.

 

[Sheikh Ma Nuggets]

Sheikh on then, sir, and maybe one day you'll prioritise what people have to say over how long they've been around. Won't hold my breath, though.

Ta,

I'll bear that in mind.

 

[WookieD]

I am Pakistani and I accept that grooming of young girls is a problem up north but please lets not make this in to a race thing as the majority of Pakistanis are sickened by this and hope that these scumbags get what they deserve in prison. We are just as sickened as the White catholic population is with clergy raping little boys and getting away with it for decades. Nobody should blame Pakistani culture for this problem as much as nobody should blame Christian doctrine for the paedophilia problem in the catholic church.

Perspective guys please!

Problem is Luton, it HAS to be recognised for what it is, if it is a wider problem. The reason *struggle cuddle* existed in the clergy WAS directly related to doctrine. It was because the church asked normal men to walk a higher plane than other men, when in fact they weren't really any better, just more learned in the ways of religion. Predicatably, a lot of them fell.

Looking at this report, to have so many men, in one place, all behaving in the same way. It is obvious what the root cause is. Contempt for these girls. It needs tackling head on. To say that so many men could behave in such a way and deny that there wasn't a social element at the root of the problem is just silly. It's just as bad as people in the 70s putting "paki-bashing" down to "boys being boys"... No it wasn't, it was horrific racism and needed tackling. So does this.

 

[Leeds Spur]

I am Pakistani and I accept that grooming of young girls is a problem up north but please lets not make this in to a race thing as the majority of Pakistanis are sickened by this and hope that these scumbags get what they deserve in prison. We are just as sickened as the White catholic population is with clergy raping little boys and getting away with it for decades. Nobody should blame Pakistani culture for this problem as much as nobody should blame Christian doctrine for the paedophilia problem in the catholic church.

Perspective guys please!

Agreed.....as I've said in all of my post, a problem in northern towns and cities.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Problem is Luton, it HAS to be recognised for what it is, if it is a wider problem. The reason *struggle cuddle* existed in the clergy WAS directly related to doctrine. It was because the church asked normal men to walk a higher plane than other men, when in fact they weren't really any better, just more learned in the ways of religion. Predicatably, a lot of them fell.

Looking at this report, to have so many men, in one place, all behaving in the same way. It is obvious what the root cause is. Contempt for these girls. It needs tackling head on. To say that so many men could behave in such a way and deny that there wasn't a social element at the root of the problem is just silly. It's just as bad as people in the 70s putting "paki-bashing" down to "boys being boys"... No it wasn't, it was horrific racism and needed tackling. So does this.

Ok let us accept there are aspects of Pakistani culture which contribute to the evil actions of these men, why are Pakistani men in the south not involved in grooming? Is it because we are more educated and have less racist tendencies within Pakistani communities in the south? Thoughts?

 

[Leeds Spur]

More integrated.

You go to Manningham in Bradford........it could be Lahore.

And because there has been so much white flight, and I don't doubt these communities have been the victims of racism themselves, they now view white girls as the enemy........easy pickings to be raped and abused.

Whilst going home to their arranged marriage and kids in the evening.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Agreed.....as I've said in all of my post, a problem in northern towns and cities.

I was actually born in Halifax, round the corner from you mate, the level of segregation from both sides is scary, people just do not mix at all, there also seems to be a general animosity between Pakistanis and Whites. Are the "community leaders" and imams working with local authorities to help create more social cohesion?

 

[Leeds Spur]

In a word....NO!

It's all lip service.

Due to white flight these areas are almost entirely Pakistani now......so there is no push to integrate or mix from either side. And any initiatives to try and push for cohesion is seen as an attack on their cultural values by teh Pakistani community. For me....the bottom line is if you go to another country, it's YOU that needs to change and accomodate, and I see very little evidence of that in Northern towns and cities.

 

[billyiddo]

the problem, as i see it, in these northern towns/cities is that the indigenous population have had this cultural change almost thrust upon them - was it the 60's and 70's ? the population changed almost over night, no one asked for it and no one really seemed to care for the feelings of the people - a boat load of immigrants were just dumped on top of them and they were expected just to get on with it

on the flip side, from the other perspective, the foreign immigrants coming to the country for a better life were rounded up and put together in areas where it was easier for them to stick to their own than it was to branch out and integrate - you only have to look at places like Spain/Portugal etc to see that English people moving abroad also choose to stick to their own in ex pat communities rather than to live among the local population - it's just natural for people in a new place to become insular if they have the choice.

can't say i know too much about what went on back then but it seems to me that there was a total lack of planning or thought put in to how the influx of immigrants in this time would integrate with society - and i don't think you can really point the finger at either side (of the people at ground level) as for who to blame - trouble is the tensions have been festering in these areas ever since and created irreversible damage in race relations in the areas involved - leading to deep rooted racism, which although is abhorrent - is almost understandable as to why it has come about

one of my major gripes with immigration is that more needs to be done to make it a smooth transitional for all involved and too much change too quickly is bad news for everyone involved

 

[WookieD]

Ok let us accept there are aspects of Pakistani culture which contribute to the evil actions of these men, why are Pakistani men in the south not involved in grooming? Is it because we are more educated and have less racist tendencies within Pakistani communities in the south? Thoughts?

No idea mate, but if this isn't an isolated incident then there is clearly something at work. Less integration, more integration, worse relations than in the south, less "English" muslims and more 1st generation immigrants in the north, stronger faith, weaker faith? All sounds a bit tenuous but there must be a reason.

Obviously it is over vastly bigger distances but look at the complete sexual immaturity of the Saudis compared to, say, the Emirates... These two differences in opinion (and generally polarised opposite opinions on a great many things) have generated very quickly over just a couple of decades. It isn't too surprising to think that muslims in the north behave differently than muslims in the south. I'm a middle aged white male, but I don't go stealing hubcaps in the same way that my northern monkey Liverpudlian brothers do on a weekly basis (that last bit is fact, I'll have you know).

All you can say is that, this type of mob grooming is very rare, and if there are a number of instances of it happening within a certain group of people, there HAS to be a social element causing it and in this instance, for the points I've already made, it is fairly obvious where the problem has come from. You have to accept that before you can try to tackle it. And the leading force for re-education, if indeed it is actually needed, will have to come from the muslim community.

 

[Sheikh Ma Nuggets]

Ok let us accept there are aspects of Pakistani culture which contribute to the evil actions of these men, why are Pakistani men in the south not involved in grooming? Is it because we are more educated and have less racist tendencies within Pakistani communities in the south? Thoughts?

Pakistani's who settled in the North are predominantly of peshawari origin.

 

[edgey-the-yid]

Why does race even matter? When catholic priest #7577899 is caught fondling yet another young kid is the question about what race the victim is ever asked? No because its irrelevant. The fact is rapists and peodos should all be shot irrespective of what race their victim was.

If we were discussing the Catholic priests fiddling then we'd be reffering to their RELIGION and trying to get to the bottom of why it is so common within the CATHOLIC RELIGION that priests groom young boys.

So in this case we are talking about Pakistani grooming gangs mainly in the north of England who are specifically grooming White girls, which suggests it's some underlying CULTURAL thing to do with the RACE of the men involved and the RACE of the victims. Therefor the RACE is an issue.

No ones suggesting for one minute that its only Pakistanis or that all Pakistanis are responsible, but race and culture need to be addressed to get to the bottom of this particular incident and many like it.


And Leeds Im glad you cleared up that mistake in your post earlier... Was about to go postal on why u think i am a disgrace to my country lol

 

[LutonSpurs]

Pakistani's who settled in the North are predominantly of peshawari origin.

Not entirely accurate Sheikh. 70% of the Pakistani population in the country is from Mirpur which is in Kashmir and the majority of north are Mirpuris. The Peshawaris are based mainly in birmingham. They are actually similar to Afghans and are ehnically Pashtun.

 

[Leeds Spur]

Pakistan, like Afghanistan, is a tribal country.

When arranged marriages take place they are from the same villages in a lot of instances. It's due to the dowry, and the family back in Pakistan wanting to keep land etc. So blokes get flown over to the UK and marry a 17 year old girl who's never laid eyes on them so the families can maintain land or trade livestoke.

No, I'm not joking.

With the 7/7 bombings, (no i'm not going down that path!!) the Pakistani community in Beeston, and area of south Leeds, was all from the same village in northern Pakistan. The guys all went back to Pakistan under the auspice of seeing family but instead went over the border for training with the Taliban/al queda.