OMT - Tottenham vs. Lyon

[indianspur]

I can understand the point you're making but back in the day, Pat Jennings played in every first team match Spurs participated in and Ken Hanc0ck, Barry Daines or whoever else was second choice simply bided their time.

I think we should be playing our strongest possible team against Olympique Lyonnais and that includes the goalkeeper.

correct

 

[braineclipse]

Isn't the 'sensible long term move' trying to win the competition by playing the best team possible?

Friedel is our 2nd choice keeper and as such needs to accept he might spend the entire season on the bench, like most 2nd-choice keepers do. Rotating keepers for important games is not common practice if at all.

I didn't see SAF resting RVP last night just to keep Hernandez match fit

The Premier League is more important than the Europa League. This game is no more an important game than any of our remaining fixtures this season.

I can understand the point you're making but back in the day, Pat Jennings played in every first team match Spurs participated in and Ken Hanc0ck, Barry Daines or whoever else was second choice simply bided their time.

I think we should be playing our strongest possible team against Olympique Lyonnais and that includes the goalkeeper.

AVB should make the best decisions for the club.

There are advantages both to starting Friedel and to starting Lloris. If AVB at this point sees the advantages to starting Friedel as greater than the advantages to starting Lloris I can see that as sensible.

 

[ArcspacE]

No, the sensible long term move is to try and keep your bench players match fit in case injuries occur. For outfield players this is far easier, you can give them 20-30 minutes at the end of matches however it's not something you can do with goalkeepers.


The sensible long term option is to do the best in all competitions you have entered using the squad of players at your disposal.


If there were only say five games left then sure, it would be crazy to not play Lloris, however there are 12 PL games +2 EL games. Perhaps even more EL games. Having the second string keeper match fit in case something happens to Lloris is far more important.


(IMO)

Keepers are not in the same category of bench players as the outfield players - many simply accept that role and often spend entire seasons on the bench.

One odd game won't make much of a different to Brad's fitness in any case, especially considering he's hardly known for his 'movement'. For me personally - it has to be the best team possible tonight.

 

[ArcspacE]

The Premier League is more important than the Europa League. This game is no more an important game than any of our remaining fixtures this season.

AVB should make the best decisions for the club.

There are advantages both to starting Friedel and to starting Lloris. If AVB at this point sees the advantages to starting Friedel as greater than the advantages to starting Lloris I can see that as sensible.

How do you know this - have you spoken to AVB lately, or Levy on the subject of season objectives?

As far as best decisions for the club go - I want us to compete in every competition with the intention of winning it, something which has be reiterated by AVB on many occasions - in which case we require the best tools available

This Brad sentiment is rather strange, imv - he decided to stay with us for the extra cash and sit on the bench as opposed to dropping a few levels down and playing regurarly - says it all and I'm pretty sure he'd be happy to do that for a long time still.

 

[braineclipse]

This never used to happen. No.1 Keepers played all the time, the number 2 had to simply be content on the bench. Plus in this case, Friedel has a tonne of experience to fall back on if he is suddenly called upon. No chance of him being rusty and not ready

Seems that AVB and the goalkeeping coaches might see this differently than you do. I don't see how you can claim that there's "no chance" and being serious if the people working closest with Friedel disagrees.

"This never used to happen" really isn't a great point. So what? It didn't happen before, now it does happen. Just because the previous decisions were made earlier in time doesn't make them any better.

 

[braineclipse]

Keepers are not in the same category of bench players as the outfield players - many simply accept that rold and often spend entire seasons on the bench.

One odd game won't make much of a different to Brad's fitness in any case, especially considering he's hardly known for his 'movement'. For me personally - it has to be the best team possible tonight.

Have you spoken to AVB or Parks lately about how much difference one game is going to make to Friedel's match fitness? Not just fitness, but match fitness, by the way. It's not just about being physically ready.

How do you know this - have you spoken to AVB lately, or Levy on the subject of season objectives?

As far as best decisions for the club go - I want us to compete in every competition with the intention of winning it, something which has be reiterated by AVB on many occasions - in which case we require the best tools available

Just my opinion. It's also my opinion that I think this is the objective for the club. Feel free to disagree if you want to.

One of the tools we might require then is squad rotation is it not? Wanting to compete in every competition with the intention of winning it doesn't necessarily equate to starting your strongest 11 every game. This seems obvious to me.

 

[ArcspacE]

One of the tools we might require then is squad rotation is it not? Wanting to compete in every competition with the intention of winning it doesn't necessarily equate to starting your strongest 11 every game. This seems obvious to me.

Squad rotation hardly if ever involves goalkeepers - due to the fact that is an established position of little competition - i.e. no.1 and a clear no. 2. In addition - the fitness levels are considerably different to outfield players - part of the reason their careers are much longer on average.

Feel free to correct me but - I have hardly seen teams playing their second-string keeper in an important game they were trying to win. Possibly a few occasions in the Copa Del Rey come to mind- although in the early stages, iirc.

 

[indianspur]

Seems that AVB and the goalkeeping coaches might see this differently than you do. I don't see how you can claim that there's "no chance" and being serious if the people working closest with Friedel disagrees.

"This never used to happen" really isn't a great point. So what? It didn't happen before, now it does happen. Just because the previous decisions were made earlier in time doesn't make them any better.

of course AVB and the coaches make the final decision and that has to be ultimately respected. Im just giving my opinion about how id do it and the reasons why

Friedel is a top keeper, im not unhappy that we have him to fall back on when required. However imo Lloris is on another level higher than Friedel. His speed, reflexes, decision making, bravery, almost everything is top class, world class. We are now involved in games against Lyon, and if we go through most likely we play Inter. Massive european games in a competition id really like us to try and win. So for that id like our best keeper to be involved. I think he'd make a huge difference

 

[braineclipse]

Squad rotation hardly if ever involves goalkeepers - due to the fact that is an established position of little competition - i.e. no.1 and a clear no. 2. In addition - the fitness levels are considerably different to outfield players - part of the reason their careers are much longer on average.

Feel free to correct me but - I have hardly seen teams playing their second-string keeper in an important game they were trying to win. Possibly a few occasions in the Copa Del Rey come to mind- although in the early stages, iirc.

I don't think it has much, if anything, to do with fitness levels.

Although Lloris is now clearly our first choice goalkeeper there has been some competition for that position this season.

Once again, "important game". Do you think this game is more important than the remaining league fixtures? By what standards is this "an important game", apart from a standard where all our remaining games are important?

This is still fairly early stages of the Europa League imo, loads of teams and rounds left.

 

[ArcspacE]

Every remaining game is important - which is why I would like to have the best keeper playing in each game, in turn offering us the best option in goals.

Yes, there might have been some competition but that is now long gone and even so, I think it was more of a gesture than anything - it was always clear as daylight who's the better keeper and who's be no.1 long term - I see nothing 'offensive' in that

 

[charlietheyid]

Why are we not playing LLoris? Are we trying to lose? Are we trying to upset one of our best players? Simply ridiculous.

No clean sheet tonight then.

 

[raboner]

WUM alert.

 

[raboner]

WUM(S)

 

[milo]

I find it amusing that people who criticised Redknapp for not rotating players and keeping fringe players match fit last season are arguing the opposit this.

 

[ArcspacE]

I find it amusing that people who criticised Redknapp for not rotating players and keeping fringe players match fit last season are arguing the opposit this.

Except that keepers form a completely different aspect of squad units compared to outfield players (in terms of fitness, morale, confidence, etc.). Would you not agree?

 

[Spursalot]

Except that keepers form a completely different aspect of squad units compared to outfield players (in terms of fitness, morale, confidence, etc.). Would you not agree?

Physical fitness i can agree on. Morale and confidence i cannot. Nothing other then playing time will give the player confidence in their own abilities and it would be just as disheartening for a keeper to be sat on the bench as it would an outfield player.

I agree keepers are completely different, which is why they cannot gain confidence and morale due to the rarity of a keeper being subbed, they need to start games on occasion.

Which is why i am fine with Freidel starting against Lyon.

 

[jimmyb]

Why are we not playing LLoris? Are we trying to lose? Are we trying to upset one of our best players? Simply ridiculous.

No clean sheet tonight then.

Grow up.

 

[Robbo]

Strange decision not to play Lloris, if that's true. Not that I don't think Friedel will do a good job, but when Lloris clearly is first choice (and out best keeper, IMO), we are in the knockout phase, and there's a week and a half until our next PL match, I don't see why we shouldn't go all out to win this game. That means playing our best 11.

Rather that than playing a weakened side tonight, getting a poor result, and having a much much tougher game next week - just a few days before a very important PL fixture. Then again, I'm no AVB, so we'll see how it goes. I would love to see some European success this year.

 

[Jimmy-g]

I can think of no reason for playing Brad other than appeasement, also read a couple of match previews and it seem certain that Gallas will start, at this stage of the season we should play our strongest team at all time i think.

 

[Kenyan Spur]

Why can't we sub a goalkeeper.

If we start with Lloris, and are leading 2-0 or something, we can always bring Brad on.
AVB can always tell the goalkeepers that this is his plan
Or is this not the done thing.