***OMT Tottenham v Dinamo Zagreb***

[thfcsteff]

- More like the manager refused players
- Since the 14 months seems controversial, I'll give some laughs. Statistically across almost every measure (GF/GA/Player contributions/shots/away wins) Poch's team was on a decline for at least two seasons (another poster did the homework months before the CL final showing it, and we all gave him brick), half the team had their best records from long before the end.

We had moments and we should remember that but the same guy who everyone seems to support more than Spurs started this spiral, which removes none of the blame from the current manager.

You and I gauge time very differently. Among other things.

 

[Raziel]

Do you want the discussion mate? Because IF you want the discussion, I am happy to get back into it in the appropriate thread.

Pick the thread mate, we got to a CL final but the team had been stumbling long before that date. Surely you remember the poster who predicted Poch's end? posted a whole long thread, showed GF/GA/points/Player records, early in the year before the CL run.

 

[mephitis]

Mate = CVNT apparently

 

[Baleforce]

He picked the french wingers mate, that was why he was gun shy later on ..

The club has been on the up long before Poch, so lets stop with this Spurs was fudging Burnley narrative and Poch led us from the depth of the PL to CL, fudging Harry Redknapp got us 4th twice in 3 years just before him.

We achieved our (at the time) highest ever points tally under AVB too, the first time 72 points had not been enough for top 4.

We were not just knocking on that door, we were Jack Torrance.

 

[thfcsteff]

Pick the thread mate, we got to a CL final but the team had been stumbling long before that date. Surely you remember the poster who predicted Poch's end? posted a whole long thread, showed GF/GA/points/Player records, early in the year before the CL run.

Yeah and what an easy prediction that was based on what he was not given, what he had to juggle, what he had to deal with.

His biggest crime was over-achieving. it seems as though he'd have had better respect from you if he'd won a League Cup and we'd played Thursday nights during his reign.

You selectively ignore hard evidence from the likes of Finney and (to a lesser extent) myself on some of the things which didn't happen. As is. This whole fudging argument is ridiculous. YOU got your wish, he was sacked, you might remember who said it was a giant fudging mistake and here we are.

Where do we go from here? THAT is the relevant question, so let me ask, do you think we should stick with Mourinho and given him a big budget to work with? If not who is your choice to come in?

 

[thfcsteff]

@ milo - Orsic, Dinamo, Lucas in that order.;

No reflection on Lucas, he's the only one who seemed to trying, when all about were lethargic, spitting dummies out or arguing amongst themselves/pointing fingers.

Lucas has genuinely turned me around. Since playing the 10, he has been productive and given his all (in fairness he always does). MUCH respect to him and an "I was wrong" from me. Sanchez is the other player right now who is worthy of praise, he is absolutely giving it his all and working very, very hard.

 

[billyiddo]

YOU got your wish, he was sacked, you might remember who said it was a giant fudging mistake and here we are.

A-fudging-men

 

[Raziel]

Yeah and what an easy prediction that was based on what he was not given, what he had to juggle, what he had to deal with.

His biggest crime was over-achieving. it seems as though he'd have had better respect from you if he'd won a League Cup and we'd played Thursday nights during his reign.

You selectively ignore hard evidence from the likes of Finney and (to a lesser extent) myself on some of the things which didn't happen. As is. This whole fudging argument is ridiculous. YOU got your wish, he was sacked, you might remember who said it was a giant fudging mistake and here we are.

Where do we go from here? THAT is the relevant question, so let me ask, do you think we should stick with Mourinho and given him a big budget to work with? If not who is your choice to come in?

Mate, Jose's scorecard is in = fail, he goes and I said it somewhere else, felt very much like that defining last game regardless of how much longer it takes to replace him. His failure doesn't vindicate Poch in anyway.

You really think sacking Poch was a mistake? on what criteria? kind of interesting several big jobs came and went that he didn't get (maybe the market judges better than us?), struggling in a farmers league with a very expensive squad. Was the right man at the right moment for us, but no question in the end, it was the right time for him to go. You say my hatred, mate the fandom for Poch is blinding a lot of people, at the end of the day I don't care about Harry, Poch, AVB, Jose, whoever is next .. good luck, thank you, see you on the other side

Re your question, who next? = no idea I expect with our attacking bias in the squad (and the way we tend to hire opposites) it will be a younger manager with a more attacking philosophy. I'd rather we did not become a finishing school (so too early for the Parker's of the world)

 

[thfcsteff]

Mate, Jose's scorecard is in = fail, he goes and I said it somewhere else, felt very much like that defining last game regardless of how much longer it takes to replace him. His failure doesn't vindicate Poch in anyway.

You really think sacking Poch was a mistake? on what criteria? kind of interesting several big jobs came and went that he didn't get (maybe the market judges better than us?), struggling in a farmers league with a very expensive squad. Was the right man at the right moment for us, but no question in the end, it was the right time for him to go. You say my hatred, mate the fandom for Poch is blinding a lot of people, at the end of the day I don't care about Harry, Poch, AVB, Jose, whoever is next .. good luck, thank you, see you on the other side

Re your question, who next? = no idea I expect with our attacking bias in the squad (and the way we tend to hire opposites) it will be a younger manager with a more attacking philosophy. I'd rather we did not become a finishing school (so too early for the Parker's of the world)

It absolutely DOES if you're prepared to look. He is dealing with the same deep issues.

Quite simply, if the end game was not to back a manager who requires money with money, and to end up with a long-term project rebuild needed because the bloke who asked for it was ignored before, then yes, I'd have given the bloke who turned it around a chance to rebuild again, trusting that he had learnt what he needed for the next tilt from seeing who couldn't quite get it done. Sometimes you need to be brave and have a big picture lens to match the experience of recent history. Klopp was backed. And I'll bet you good one the dippers don't sack him for one bad season when he needs to revamp. He'll get the chance to go again.

I couldn't give a fudge about anyone above the club either. I've been here since the '70s. I watched my idol, Glenn Hoddle, get sacked and had to admit it was the right thing to do because it was.

You'll get your wish. We cannot afford gambles. We need a big name. Our whole model is built on it now, from keeping the likes of Kane and Son to commercial interests.

 

[Raziel]

It absolutely DOES if you're prepared to look. He is dealing with the same deep issues.

Quite simply, if the end game was not to back a manager who requires money with money, and to end up with a long-term project rebuild needed because the bloke who asked for it was ignored before, then yes, I'd have given the bloke who turned it around a chance to rebuild again, trusting that he had learnt what he needed for the next tilt from seeing who couldn't quite get it done. Sometimes you need to be brave and have a big picture lens to match the experience of recent history. Klopp was backed. And I'll bet you good one the dippers don't sack him for one bad season when he needs to revamp. He'll get the chance to go again.

I couldn't give a fudge about anyone above the club either. I've been here since the '70s. I watched my idol, Glenn Hoddle, get sacked and had to admit it was the right thing to do because it was.

You'll get your wish. We cannot afford gambles. We need a big name. Our whole model is built on it now, from keeping the likes of Kane and Son to commercial interests.

Serious question mate, what manager has ever turned it around after a sustained bad run? history suggests it doesn't work, to do so with a manager (who rightly or wrongly) could be seen at pushing his limits already made no sense.

Pool won't sack Klopp now, but drop out of the CL soon enough and fail to make top 4, I wouldn't be surprised to see a new Germany manager in summer by mutual consent.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Should have played his strongest side today. Not our poorest midfield 2, Reguillon not Davies, Bale starting.

Hojbjerg was suspended following that booking in first leg, Ndombele got hacked to bits last week and looked well below his best on Sunday, Bale’s half-hearted tracking back allowed Orsic to run half the length of the pitch in the lead up to their 3rd goal.

I’m guess that Mourinho is alternating between playing Regulion and Aurier to try and keep them fresh, as their understudies are so much inferior that starting both Doherty and Davies is to be avoided if at all possible.

 

[mephitis]

Observations:
1) We're in a bad place.
2) Given the players we have we shouldn't be.
3) At least I haven't had make numerous 400 mile round trips and spend 100s (actually 1000s) of pounds to watch us achieving such.
4) This wouldn't have been allowed to play out like this had fans been in the stadium.
5) Club = an organization offering members social amenities, meals, and temporary residence/an association dedicated to a particular interest or activity/a group of people having something in common.
6) We ain't got that at the moment so it hurts even more.
7) I miss beers at the Lane to take the edge off.
8) I miss the likes of Poch & Jol who cared about us and the Club more than what their next platitude was going to be.
9) I'm truly envious of the unity they have around here at the moment (I in live in Leeds). Fans, Players, Manager, Owners all singing off the same song sheet. Won't win anything this season but all pulling together.
10) At least we're still in the Carabao Cup Final..........oh yeah against City
11) Bad night, work tomorrow is likely to be worse...........

 

[Raziel]

Observations:
1) We're in a bad place.
2) Given the players we have we shouldn't be.
3) At least I haven't had make numerous 400 mile round trips and spend 100s (actually 1000s) of pounds to watch us achieving such.
4) This wouldn't have been allowed to play out like this had fans been in the stadium.
5) Club = an organization offering members social amenities, meals, and temporary residence/an association dedicated to a particular interest or activity/a group of people having something in common.
6) We ain't got that at the moment so it hurts even more.
7) I miss beers at the Lane to take the edge off.
8) I miss the likes of Poch & Jol who cared about us and the Club more than what their next platitude was going to be.
9) I'm truly envious of the unity they have around here at the moment (I in live in Leeds). Fans, Players, Manager, Owners all singing off the same song sheet. Won't win anything this season but all pulling together.
10) At least we're still in the Carabao Cup Final..........oh yeah against City
11) Bad night, work tomorrow is likely to be worse...........

there will be better days .. wear your colours in the darkest hour

 

[90291Spur]

Observations:
1) We're in a bad place.
2) Given the players we have we shouldn't be.
3) At least I haven't had make numerous 400 mile round trips and spend 100s (actually 1000s) of pounds to watch us achieving such.
4) This wouldn't have been allowed to play out like this had fans been in the stadium.
5) Club = an organization offering members social amenities, meals, and temporary residence/an association dedicated to a particular interest or activity/a group of people having something in common.
6) We ain't got that at the moment so it hurts even more.
7) I miss beers at the Lane to take the edge off.
8) I miss the likes of Poch & Jol who cared about us and the Club more than what their next platitude was going to be.
9) I'm truly envious of the unity they have around here at the moment (I in live in Leeds). Fans, Players, Manager, Owners all singing off the same song sheet. Won't win anything this season but all pulling together.
10) At least we're still in the Carabao Cup Final..........oh yeah against City
11) Bad night, work tomorrow is likely to be worse...........

I'd like to add

12) It is tough to see what the next step is.
13) Levy has, in the past and more often than not, hired managers who haven't done the job. And he has also hired ones who have.

 

[90291Spur]

there will be better days .. wear your colours in the darkest hour

Wen no-one can see you're wearing them...

 

[stratnumberone]

I have supported Spurs a long time and I have to say that tonight is about as low a performance I have ever seen.
This gets quoted almost every season!....sadly..

Haha yes that’s true! If only it was quoted only once every season. If only it was quoted only once a month.

 

[Daisuk]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1372639795868995585

 

[thfcsteff]

That is indeed a mystery. We were top of the table ffs in mid December. What exactly happened? We can't blame injuries this time. We look a shadow of a team.

His deep low block/break with Kane and Son worked for a while. Then sides realized that by denying Kane space to turn inside and deliver worldys deep, that was us cut off as an attacking side. Sides also realized our defenders (by and large) are not good on the ball, including Hugo whose kicking is brick. He got a reprieve once the window closed because he had to make Dele work somehow (sadly not enough) and Bale found some form. He did also twig that Lucas as a 10 works better than Lucas anywhere else. Then Hojberg went off the boil, we struggled big-time, Kane got thwacked and so has been soldiering, Sonny got tired and lost some sharpness and form...add to this his behind the times tactics, and this was somewhat inevitable once we lost at Liverpool.

I have some sympathy. He is not a project manager. He has ended up with one. And then I remember what he said on coming in, and I further remember being told why he was here by several. So I have to say, sympathy for him is hard for me to find at this point, but being practical there are some areas he has been let down. But he is largely responsible IMO.

 

[thfcsteff]

And to be fair, the score flatters Dinamo. We had much better chances and a better xG. Just didn't have our scoring boots on and they had theirs. Kinda like that Bayern game where we lost 7-2 and everything was going in for them, even though we had the better chances. The combined xG across both games was Spurs - Dinamo: 3.66 - 1.80. Still, it shouldn't have come to this after being 2-0 up in the first leg.

The difference is that before the second-half wheels came off against Bayern, we played brilliant football. This match? brick.

 

[thfcsteff]

Serious question mate, what manager has ever turned it around after a sustained bad run? history suggests it doesn't work, to do so with a manager (who rightly or wrongly) could be seen at pushing his limits already made no sense.

Pool won't sack Klopp now, but drop out of the CL soon enough and fail to make top 4, I wouldn't be surprised to see a new Germany manager in summer by mutual consent.

In history or in Premiership history? Genuine question.