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OMT - ***Tottenham Hotspur vs Watford***

milo said:
I'm always hopeful too but i think that the answer to a different question. If people are saying that our performance is on par then we should be measuring that against reasonable expectation in the summer and not, we were second at the beginning of April so we are where we should be.
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I didn't have us as finishing in the top two at the beginning of the season, not because I didn't believe in the quality of the team, but because I expected other top teams would improve. I wasn't expecting City, Arsenal, Liverpool, and United to be dropping so many points against lesser teams, for example.

What I thought at the beginning of the season, however, is not relevant. My comment about our position being on par with our quality was based on looking back at how the team has performed thus far.
 
alekaras said:
I didn't have us as finishing in the top two at the beginning of the season, not because I didn't believe in the quality of the team, but because I expected other top teams would improve. I wasn't expecting City, Arsenal, Liverpool, and United to be dropping so many points against lesser teams, for example.

What I thought at the beginning of the season, however, is not relevant. My comment about our position being on par with our quality was based on looking back at how the team has performed thus far.
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Its the most competitive league in thew world and that will always happen, particularly when expensively assembled team still have lots of weaknesses that can be exploited
 
alekaras said:
I didn't have us as finishing in the top two at the beginning of the season, not because I didn't believe in the quality of the team, but because I expected other top teams would improve. I wasn't expecting City, Arsenal, Liverpool, and United to be dropping so many points against lesser teams, for example.

What I thought at the beginning of the season, however, is not relevant. My comment about our position being on par with our quality was based on looking back at how the team has performed thus far.
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By measuring it like that, we will never be above par.
 
milo said:
By measuring it like that, we will never be above par.
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i think he has a point though - our club may be the 6th strongest/biggest in the league, but we have managed to build a team/squad that is as good as any in the league, despite the financial constraints - so with that in mind how do we set our targets? do we say well it's ok for such a strong team to finish lower than it should because the club isn't expected to do as well as others - or do we say this team is good enough to challenge for the league and go toe to toe with teams that were assembled for a lot more money - so that's what we're aiming for?
 
billyiddo said:
i think he has a point though - our club may be the 6th strongest/biggest in the league, but we have managed to build a team/squad that is as good as any in the league, despite the financial constraints - so with that in mind how do we set our targets? do we say well it's ok for such a strong team to finish lower than it should because the club isn't expected to do as well as others - or do we say this team is good enough to challenge for the league and go toe to toe with teams that were assembled for a lot more money - so that's what we're aiming for?
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I agree to an extent but i still think that we are over achieving. Saying we are par does not account for the massive financial handicap we have, the excellent coaching, or the development in our players.

I think that it is realistic to set targets at the beginning of the season and maybe review those at mid-year. Against both we are over achieving.
 
milo said:
I agree to an extent but i still think that we are over achieving. Saying we are par does not account for the massive financial handicap we have, the excellent coaching, or the development in our players.

I think that it is realistic to set targets at the beginning of the season and maybe review those at mid-year. Against both we are over achieving.
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i suppose what im getting at is that yes, as a club we are over achieving (quite dramatically so in fact) but as a team we're good enough to be in the title race - so in that sense we're not really over achieving on the pitch

Leicester last season would be an example of a team that over achieved on the pitch because on paper they shouldnt be anywhere near the top of the league, similarly West Ham last season shouldn't have been anywhere near wherever it was that they finished

on the flip side United as a club are massively under achieving but as a team they are more or less where they should be
 
billyiddo said:
i suppose what im getting at is that yes, as a club we are over achieving (quite dramatically so in fact) but as a team we're good enough to be in the title race - so in that sense we're not really over achieving on the pitch

Leicester last season would be an example of a team that over achieved on the pitch because on paper they shouldnt be anywhere near the top of the league, similarly West Ham last season shouldn't have been anywhere near wherever it was that they finished

on the flip side United as a club are massively under achieving but as a team they are more or less where they should be
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I agree with that. If we finish in the top four for our second successive season, i think that it would be reasonable to reassess our expectation for next season. Obviously, now, anything lower than second would feel like an anticlimax but i think that would've been an unreasonable expectation in advance.
 
billyiddo said:
i suppose what im getting at is that yes, as a club we are over achieving (quite dramatically so in fact) but as a team we're good enough to be in the title race - so in that sense we're not really over achieving on the pitch

Leicester last season would be an example of a team that over achieved on the pitch because on paper they shouldnt be anywhere near the top of the league, similarly West Ham last season shouldn't have been anywhere near wherever it was that they finished

on the flip side United as a club are massively under achieving but as a team they are more or less where they should be
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And that was exactly my point. For example, if Messi, Ronaldo, Bale, Alexis, Toby, etc. all decided to join Burnley at the start of the season with Burnley salaries, would they have overachieved if they won the title? When looking at a team, one has to look at the quality of the players and the coaching staff, assuming all else being equal (schedule, injuries, etc) and assess over/under achievement based on those two factors alone.
 
alekaras said:
And that was exactly my point. For example, if Messi, Ronaldo, Bale, Alexis, Toby, etc. all decided to join Burnley at the start of the season with Burnley salaries, would they have overachieved if they won the title? When looking at a team, one has to look at the quality of the players and the coaching staff, assuming all else being equal (schedule, injuries, etc) and assess over/under achievement based on those two factors alone.
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I think that it would be a mistake to use just one measure for whether a team is under or over achieving but i cannot think of one, other than moving the goalposts, that results in us performing to par.
 
milo said:
I agree with that. If we finish in the top four for our second successive season, i think that it would be reasonable to reassess our expectation for next season. Obviously, now, anything lower than second would feel like an anticlimax but i think that would've been an unreasonable expectation in advance.
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i guess as well we need to factor in that our team is quite young and full of potential so targets placed at the beginning of the season can quickly be outgrown if the players develop quicker than we imagined - i think that is probably a good description of what has happened this season... id have been happy with a challenge for the top 4 at the beginning of the season and wouldn't have envisaged being too upset if we missed out - but i think as the season has worn on the players have proven themselves to be worthy of greater things as they have stepped up their development.
 
Happy with this win. But not sure why we can't seem to score more than 4 or 5 goals nowadays. Still waiting for the big win like the 9-1 win over Wigan in 2010. We are still wasting too many chances in front of goal. In fact, both our strikers Janssen and Kane had chances to score but both wasted them. Instead, it was left with our midfield and defence to get us the goals.

Credit to Son, Alli and Dier for the goals. It was brilliant long range goal by all 3 of them. But Alli's goal was the crucial one as we didn't look like scoring until then. After that goal, the team was lifted and created many other chances. Too bad Janssen didn't score any despite having hattrick of chances that he should have scored. It was great to see Kane coming back from injury. But he was unlucky not to score atleast 1 goal as he had 2 chances, one of it hitting the post from the freekick.

Our midfield didn't have much to do in this match. Watford were poor and didn't trouble us much. Dembele and Dier did their part to control the midfield. But still wish Dembele will help our attack more. Also, a bit disappointed Eriksen didn't score as well. But he did get an assist. Not sure why Pochettino keeps bringing on Onomah who has never been convincing in any of his performances. Nkodou should have come on instead.

Well done to our defence for keeping the clean sheet. It is always satisfying to stop teams scoring against us. Credit to Lloris, Vertonghen and Alderweireld for doing their part in helping us keeping this clean sheet. Hope we will keep more clean sheet in the coming matches.

Nice to get our 6th consecutive league win. Let's hope we can go on a long winning run to finish the season strongly.
 
Spurs7891 said:
Happy with this win. But not sure why we can't seem to score more than 4 or 5 goals nowadays. Still waiting for the big win like the 9-1 win over Wigan in 2010. We are still wasting too many chances in front of goal. In fact, both our strikers Janssen and Kane had chances to score but both wasted them.

Too bad Janssen didn't score any despite having hattrick of chances that he should have scored.

But still wish Dembele will help our attack more. Also, a bit disappointed Eriksen didn't score as well.
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WTAF?

That second sentence, sheesh.
 
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