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***OMT - TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs. READING - OMT***

braineclipse said:
With AVB having played a back 4 just about always in his (admittedly short) managerial career and his tutor Mourinho also just about always playing a back 4 in his managerial career and our players not yet used to AVB's style of play I don't see any way we would all of a sudden change to a back 3/5. Even more so when we only have 4 senior centre backs with Kaboul reportedly out for a long time and out of those 4 Gallas is quite injury prone.
Click to expand...

I agree that it would be him stepping outside his comfort zone and therefore not likely. However, Mourinho sometimes employed it - especially when chasing games. I think it would suit our personnel better and get rid of the players that have not performed well so far - Livermore, Walker, BAE.

It is just a suggestion. I dont think he will go for it though. But as nayim said above, when we were at our best against WBA in the first hour it was effectively using a 343 when we attacked.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
There is a difference between lining up 343 (541 in defence!) and switching to it when you have the initative.


I quite like the shape we had against WBA, best of both IMO.

And dmac provided a good screen grab of us in action against Norwich

Tottenham-Norwich3.png

4 players in the box, Walker carrying it forward - Sigurdsson in space (the obvious pass, not made on this occasion) and (I think) Vertonghen coming up from the left channel. Seems to me the options to get plenty of bodies forward are there with the 433/451 we have been playing...
Click to expand...

4 players in box but two of them in "nothing" positions
 
Which, had Walker squared to Sigurdsson, would have opened up as opportunity very quickly.

Not that Im interested in arguing this photo to death - was simply trying to show how we had 4 bodies in the box (and 3 outside) as evidence we could do it after you said "Thats how I would like to play from the start at Reading and get more players in the box to score more goals!!"
 
------------------Lloris

Walker-------Gallas---Vertonghen--------BAE

--Sigurdsson----Sandro-----Dembele

--Dempsey----Adebayor----Bale


Subs: Friedel, Naughton, Dawson, Parker, Hudd, Lennon, Defoe

would be my pick.



---------------Friedel

Walker-----Gallas---Vertonghen--------BAE

--Dembele----Sandro-----Dempsey

---Lennon----Adebayor----Bale

Subs: Lloris, Naughton, Caulker, Parker, Livermore, Sig, Defoe


is what I'd predict though.
 
hate to be negative but just cant see us getting a win in this game. reading at home and very fresh, us seemingly in some kind of transitional crisis without clearly our best player for the last 20 years luka modric. draw at best im afraid
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Which, had Walker squared to Sigurdsson, would have opened up as opportunity very quickly.

Not that Im interested in arguing this photo to death - was simply trying to show how we had 4 bodies in the box (and 3 outside) as evidence we could do it after you said "Thats how I would like to play from the start at Reading and get more players in the box to score more goals!!"
Click to expand...

So you are agreeing with me! 343 to attack (which becomes 541 when we defend).Got to go for it now - not play two defensive midfielders
 
No, Im not.

Im saying the 433 we have been employing has enabled us to switch to 451 defending and 343 attacking quite well - and that I think it offers us a really good balance.

Lining up 343 means when defending (541) you have fewer players in advanced positions to help break out.
 
Surely the norm is to list formations as the way players line up when organized and defending?

Pirate55 said:
So you are agreeing with me! 343 to attack (which becomes 541 when we defend).Got to go for it now - not play two defensive midfielders
Click to expand...

Why do we have to change to 3/5 at the back to go for it?

All we have to do is bring someone creative into one of the deeper central midfield roles, Dembele. If we want to really go for it bring in both Dembele and Hudd in those roles. No need to change to a completely different formation.
 
Kingdawson said:
we're not gonna get anything from this game.
Click to expand...

We won our first game last season, away to a relegation candidate, after the international break, and it was our new players first game (Ade, Parker).

Play the new guys, Ade, dembele, LLoris. They'll be a big boost to the team and we'll get 3points.
 
------------------Friedel

Walker-----Gallas---Vertonghen--------BAE

-----------Dembele----Sandro

-------Lennon----Dempsey----Bale

------------------Adebayor

for me, evolution not revolution
 
I think that will be, and should be the team, Milo barring Gallas who I'm unsure about because he hasn't been that good this year. Maybe it's to be expected because it's a 'transitional' period but he was at fault for our last two goals conceded.
 
--------------------Lloris
Walker/Naughton---(CB)----Vertonghen----BAE
------Siggy--------Sandro------Dembele
-----Dempsey-----Adebayor------Bale

Team line-up doesn't matter as much as the movement, though. One of the problems with this formation is that Dempsey pretty much never plays on the right side - he's usually central (where he scores the most), or on the left, so he and Bale would have to interchange; AVB prefers inverted wing forwards anyways, but Bale still seems awkward on the right.

Meanwhile, Dempsey and Bale average about 20 passes per game and not a single one of those central three (Sig, Sandro, Dembele) average more than 40 passes per game, compared to Modric, Parker, and VdV's 60-70, which once again highlights our lack of a metronomic knitter/playmaker. However, I'm hoping they can change their playing style with coaching - for example, both Siggy and Dempsey have gotten used to a role of just getting into positions to support the striker, but they should be getting on the ball more too, and looking to hold possession and make plays. We could also swap out Siggy for Lennon and move Dempsey central behind Adebayor, but that's essentially 4-4-1-1 with two traditional wingers who barely touch the ball, which worries me a little given our defensive issues in the last game. Or we could just go crazy and throw Tom Carroll in there in a three-man-mid if we look awful, since by then we probably couldn't do any worse. :lol:

For CB, I'm not happy with Gallas's form but with Kaboul out we don't have many options. I'm hesitant to throw Caulker in there since Vertonghen is still trying to gain his footing here, and the CB partnership is crucial and very apt to exposing a young/new CB when the team's form is bad.
 
Pirate55 said:
I agree that it would be him stepping outside his comfort zone and therefore not likely. However, Mourinho sometimes employed it - especially when chasing games. I think it would suit our personnel better and get rid of the players that have not performed well so far - Livermore, Walker, BAE.

It is just a suggestion. I dont think he will go for it though. But as nayim said above, when we were at our best against WBA in the first hour it was effectively using a 343 when we attacked.
Click to expand...

343 in attack is the usual way AVB has played at Porto and wanted to at Chelsea. Eventually we'll turn into a 433 formation that is a 343 when we attack as well, he's just waiting for the right personell and for the team to the develop in his way.
It's not a formation he'll pick 3 central defenders for though, why should it. It lines up with a back 4 with two attacking fullbacks alllowed to go forward when we have the ball, and one deep midfielder dropping down to form a back three with the two central defenders.

without the ball and starting positions:
Lloris
Walker - Kaboul - Vertonghen - BAE
Sigurdsson - Sandro - Dembele
Bale - Adebayor - Dempsey

when in attack:
Lloris
Kaboul - Sandro - Vertonghen
Walker - Sigurdsson - Dembele - BAE
Bale - Adebayor - Dempsey
 
I wonder if AVB will feel the need to play two holding midfielders against mighty Reading?
 
braineclipse said:
Surely the norm is to list formations as the way players line up when organized and defending?



Why do we have to change to 3/5 at the back to go for it?

All we have to do is bring someone creative into one of the deeper central midfield roles, Dembele. If we want to really go for it bring in both Dembele and Hudd in those roles. No need to change to a completely different formation.
Click to expand...

Because it doesnt play to our existing players' strengths. We dont have a natural playmaker for the DM role, so we need to play a holding DM like Parker or Sando to protect the back line. Lennon/Walker and Bale to be wing backs. They will get the ball more in deeper positions and be able to inflict the damage on the counter attack

Friedel/Lloris

Calker
Dawson
Vert

Sandro/Parker

Lennon Bale

Sigg Dembele Dempsey

Ade
 
rosenthal said:
343 in attack is the usual way AVB has played at Porto and wanted to at Chelsea. Eventually we'll turn into a 433 formation that is a 343 when we attack as well, he's just waiting for the right personell and for the team to the develop in his way.
It's not a formation he'll pick 3 central defenders for though, why should it. It lines up with a back 4 with two attacking fullbacks alllowed to go forward when we have the ball, and one deep midfielder dropping down to form a back three with the two central defenders.

without the ball and starting positions:
Lloris
Walker - Kaboul - Vertonghen - BAE
Sigurdsson - Sandro - Dembele
Bale - Adebayor - Dempsey

when in attack:
Lloris
Kaboul - Sandro - Vertonghen
Walker - Sigurdsson - Dembele - BAE
Bale - Adebayor - Dempsey
Click to expand...

Not much different from what I am suggesting - except Bale for BAE enables you to bring in another CB to shore up our defence in the middle where we seem to be having the trouble at the moment and allow the attacking players more freedom.
 
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