OMT - Tottenham Hotspur vs Internazionale

[Jurgen the German]

I think it’s much more likely that he wants every member of the squad to feel part of something, and wants to establish the meteorology that we needed to be consistent across a season, not a one off game, in order to be judged successful.

And I think everything that Levy has done since Poch came in from a financial perspective is so that we aren’t reliant on CL money to do anything. Everything has been as much about controlling our own destiny as possible and not having any investment contingent on success, because you can’t guarantee a plan on finishing above 2 out of the top 6 every year.

Our CL finishes has been very much a nice to have an example of the peerless work Poch has done. But I don’t think 4th has been the goal. Besides, how does one plan for 4th but not to win the league? I thought the lack of signings was to show Levy had no ambition? He must be pretty certain we are still going to get 4th this year?

I agree with giving everyone in the squad playing time is important but there comes a point in the latter stages of tournaments where you have to forget all of that, forget sentimentality and just play your best eleven. A semi final against Man United is not the time to be picking Vorm over Lloris. Maybe that’s down to Poch’s relative inexperience. Like I said, I can’t imagine Mourinho dropping De Gea for a semi final unless he was in woeful form.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I agree with giving everyone in the squad playing time is important but there comes a point in the latter stages of tournaments where you have to forget all of that, forget sentimentality and just play your best eleven. A semi final against Man United is not the time to be picking Vorm over Lloris. Maybe that’s down to Poch’s relative inexperience. Like I said, I can’t imagine Mourinho dropping De Gea for a semi final unless he was in woeful form.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39743943

He did it in the Europa League at a time where he was under huge pressure to win to get CL football. De Gea was sat on the bench that night.

It was the same in the final against Ajax.

From memory Romero was injured for last seasons semi final against us or he may have played.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Aren't they? Why do managers like Simeone and SAF get their players to perform and with us it's up to the mental fragility of the players?

Don't get me wrong, I love Poch and hope he stays with us for many years, but somehow I don't think motivation is his strong point. He's great at building a team, but it seems to me he then relies on the "collective" to self motivate. And I'm just guessing here, obviously, but the lapses we have and our slow starts in some important games seem to point to something like this.

In any case, it's a long season, so let's see what happens.

In the case of SAF, it's because he was a far better manager than Poch. No one can argue about that.

In the case of Simeone, it's because he buys battlers and scrappers - players with a mean streak, with a point to prove. Like Costa, for instance. And then he gets them together, plays a defensive, scorched-earth style of football and grinds his way to 1-0 victories.

In our case, we've had technical, flaky bottlers around for most of our history, and this team is no different. They're talented, but something in them is as brittle and prone to collapse as any other Spurs team, and it won't go away. Regardless of what Poch does.

I don't think he can be held to blame for the flakiness of our players, given that reality.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Peace out lads. No need for the hate. Just think he’s losing it and will lose the next few games and it’ll be bye bye.

Enjoy your evening x

Never gas taken much for you to turn on the team has it? Suggest you have a nice warm bath and go to bed.

I didn't see the last 20min or so (I won't be watching them) but to be honest from what I did see Inter weren't even that good.

The first half was bad, very bad. We were very, very, very bad for the first 30mins and all because Inter pressed us high up the pitch. That's all it takes for any team to completely negate our clever 'play it out from the back' tactic. I'm not sure why we persist with this when the opposition has obviously figured out we are not going to try anything different. We really need some variation here as it often just puts us in trouble. And then for some reason, Inter stopped pressing with their 3 high up the pitch. I don't understand why that happened frankly, but it gave us the breathing space we needed to get a foothold in the game.

If I was pointing the finger of blame for our recent poor form it would mostly be at the players as they are just not playing to their potential. Some of the brick they are serving up is just not good enough. Basic failures in control and passing are pretty unforgivable.

And Poch needs to drop Kane. Ferguson wouldn't hesitate to do it in the same position.

It could be worse though. You could be Trump's knob.
Lighten up you moopey fudges.

You're right, we do struggle to play it out from the back against a high press but doubly so with Vorm because he's also utter brick when kicking long.

Point is his distribution, whether short or long, is consistently atrocious. When passing out from the back he hesitates way too much allowing our defenders to be too easily closed down. But did you not also notice that every time he elected to kick long against Inter the ball either went straight to the opposition or straight out of play. Either way it meant Inter came straight back at us.

He's a bit better using his arm but seldom does so.

 

[StephenH]

First time he’s be under pressure.

Let’s see how he reacts.

An £8m pa job running a football team. I spit on his so-called pressure

 

[Abbeyspur]

Not sure whether this has already been discussed after the match and too depressed to check but does anyone else think our 2nd and 3rd substitutions were poor?

The Winks for Lamela sub seemed to lose the momentum we had. At that point Moura was destroying their right back and Lamela along with Eriksen controlling the midfield so that a 2nd goal was looking likely. By taking Lamela off and moving Moura more central we became too narrow and allowed their full backs to move forward out of our press. I can understand that Poch was trying to control the game but we missed Lamela's energy badly in the last 15 minutes.

The Rose for Kane sub after the equaliser was just baffling. Where was Rose supposed to be playing? By removing Kane we lost the height needed to defend the corners and free kicks which were likely to be conceded against a team with their tales up after scoring and predictably the goal was conceded by one central defender winning a header for the other central defender to score. If Kane was to be substituted, surely Wanyama or even Llorente would have been a better alternative.

 

[harr1984]

Never gas taken much for you to turn on the team has it? Suggest you have a nice warm bath and go to bed.
You're right, we do struggle to play it out from the back against a high press but doubly so with Vorm because he's also utter brick when kicking long.

Point is his distribution, whether short or long, is consistently atrocious. When passing out from the back he hesitates way too much allowing our defenders to be too easily closed down. But did you not also notice that every time he elected to kick long against Inter the ball either went straight to the opposition or straight out of play. Either way it meant Inter came straight back at us.

He's a bit better using his arm but seldom does so.

Sorry but to try and put our poor playing out on the back down to Vorm is ridiculous. Davies and Vertonghen were constantly messing it up between themselves, nothing to do with Vorm. Fact is Inter pressed us and we couldnt handle it, to try and single out Vorm is wrong....

 

[Jurgen the German]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39743943

He did it in the Europa League at a time where he was under huge pressure to win to get CL football. De Gea was sat on the bench that night.

It was the same in the final against Ajax.

From memory Romero was injured for last seasons semi final against us or he may have played.

Ok I stand corrected

Still don't think the semi final of a major competition is the time or the place to be playing a back up keeper. When it comes to the latter stages of tournaments, pick your best team.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Sorry but to try and put our poor playing out on the back down to Vorm is ridiculous. Davies and Vertonghen were constantly messing it up between themselves, nothing to do with Vorm. Fact is Inter pressed us and we couldnt handle it, to try and single out Vorm is wrong....

Seriously I urge you watch more closely what happens. Vorm consistently hesitates to pass out from goal-kick situations. As a result ,high-pressing opponents like Liverpool and yesterday Inter have time to come hunting our defenders. This means that when we do eventually receive the ball all passing options have been closed down.

Because of Vorm's hesitation our defenders find themselves having to retreat and retreat closer to the corner flag in order to give themselves enough space, but by the time they do eventually receive the ball they are quite literally cornered with no one to pass to because others are all so closely marked.

I'd say Toby and Trips are better at getting out of tight situations like that but they should never have been put into such a difficult situation in the first place.

So if we are going to play out from the back it is essential for the keeper to get the ball out quickly.

It sometimes also happens with Lloris but less so nowadays because by and large he seems to have learnt to be quicker at passing out from the back.

 

[Baleforce]

Seriously I urge you watch more closely what happens. Vorm consistently hesitates to pass out from goal-kick situations. As a result ,high-pressing opponents like Liverpool and yesterday Inter have time to come hunting our defenders. This means that when we do eventually receive the ball all passing options have been closed down.

Because of Vorm's hesitation our defenders find themselves having to retreat and retreat closer to the corner flag in order to give themselves enough space, but by the time they do eventually receive the ball they are quite literally cornered with no one to pass to because others are all so closely marked.

I'd say Toby and Trips are better at getting out of tight situations like that but they should never have been put into such a difficult situation in the first place.

So if we are going to play out from the back it is essential for the keeper to get the ball out quickly.

It sometimes also happens with Lloris but less so nowadays because by and large he seems to have learnt to be quicker at passing out from the back.

we shouldn't be passing it out from the back against those teams

 

[harr1984]

Seriously I urge you watch more closely what happens. Vorm consistently hesitates to pass out from goal-kick situations. As a result ,high-pressing opponents like Liverpool and yesterday Inter have time to come hunting our defenders. This means that when we do eventually receive the ball all passing options have been closed down.

Because of Vorm's hesitation our defenders find themselves having to retreat and retreat closer to the corner flag in order to give themselves enough space, but by the time they do eventually receive the ball they are quite literally cornered with no one to pass to because others are all so closely marked.

I'd say Toby and Trips are better at getting out of tight situations like that but they should never have been put into such a difficult situation in the first place.

So if we are going to play out from the back it is essential for the keeper to get the ball out quickly.

It sometimes also happens with Lloris but less so nowadays because by and large he seems to have learnt to be quicker at passing out from the back.

I watched the game, Vorm isnt great at kicking but to try and blame him for the defenders doing what they did is pathetic. There were plenty of times where the defenders were passing it around and Vorm wasnt even involved and they lose the ball trying to pass their way out. Even if Vorm gave them hospital passes everytime which he didnt, then they should have enough of a brain to just clear the ball instead of continuously try and play out in stupid areas and lose it. If you dont want to blame the defenders, then you should blame Poch for not telling them to just get rid of the damn ball when it became obvious we couldnt beat their press.....

 

[r-u-s-x]

Problem is also when we get out of the high press we cause no damage so the opposition can gamble.

We broke it a few times yesterday and that means 4 of their players are out of the game, we should be hurting them and then they will be less effective next time.

*Edit additional.. I am thinking it has a bit to do with the loss of Walker and Roses pace and athleticism (I know Rose) finally catching up with us. We were known as a powerful pressing team and we have not been that this season. I am not exaggerating the point and I think this way at the beginning of most seasons until October time but it feels a little more permanent this time.

 

[Spur of the moment]

we shouldn't be passing it out from the back against those teams

Maybe you did not read my original post in which I pointed out that Vorm's atrocious long ball distribution is just as problematic because it too easily returns possession to the opponent. This enables them to immediately launch yet another attack.

No, the answer is simple. If Vorm would only consistently pass the ball out quickly once in possession to one of our defenders BEFORE they get closed down that would be an excellent way of launching an attack of our own. The strategy mostly works well when that happens imo.

 

[Baleforce]

Maybe you did not read my original post in which I pointed out that Vorm's atrocious long ball distribution is just as problematic because it too easily returns possession to the opponent. This enables them to immediately launch yet another attack.

No, the answer is simple. If Vorm would only consistently pass the ball out quickly once in possession to one of our defenders BEFORE they get closed down that would be an excellent way of launching an attack of our own. The strategy mostly works well when that happens imo.

I did, I think in certain match ups, it's better to intentionally turn the ball over high with the intention of winning it back quickly than to try and build from the back

 

[90291Spur]

Last two CL games we lose 2-1 after being 1-0 up and seemingly in control. Both times it’s the ‘they scored from their only two shots’ narrative. There is a lack of learning how to handle these games, and the fact that for the 1st INter goal there was no pressure on the crosser or the scorer is awful.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Last two CL games we lose 2-1 after being 1-0 up and seemingly in control. Both times it’s the ‘they scored from their only two shots’ narrative. There is a lack of learning how to handle these games, and the fact that for the 1st INter goal there was no pressure on the crosser or the scorer is awful.

Very good point; no doubt this week one of them will pipe up in the media about "lessons have been leant and we are training hard" blah blah

 

[harr1984]

Last two CL games we lose 2-1 after being 1-0 up and seemingly in control. Both times it’s the ‘they scored from their only two shots’ narrative. There is a lack of learning how to handle these games, and the fact that for the 1st INter goal there was no pressure on the crosser or the scorer is awful.

Was thinking the same about all the games we've lost this season - Posters after Watford, Liverpool and Inter games saying its just 'margins'. Whilst that might be true, any game is about margins and you have to come out on top in that respect. Even rubbish teams can claim they would have won if it wasnt for this or that going their way. Collectively from the manager down there have been too many errors made in each of those games, simple as. Hopefully will get back on track against Brighton because this mini run of poor form I can handle but to lose four on the bounce? I'll begin to wonder if there is a more deep rooted problem at the club rather than it just being a form issue....

 

[Kandi1977]

We’ll school these clams at home.
Pot 3 tossers.

They're actually Pot 4...

 

[Spur of the moment]

I watched the game, Vorm isnt great at kicking but to try and blame him for the defenders doing what they did is pathetic. There were plenty of times where the defenders were passing it around and Vorm wasnt even involved and they lose the ball trying to pass their way out. Even if Vorm gave them hospital passes everytime which he didnt, then they should have enough of a brain to just clear the ball instead of continuously try and play out in stupid areas and lose it. If you dont want to blame the defenders, then you should blame Poch for not telling them to just get rid of the damn ball when it became obvious we couldnt beat their press.....

To an extent you're right about the mistakes we were committing at the back but a lot of the time it was of our own making because of the time it took Vorm to pass out from the back.

Doesn't matter how skilful or otherwise your defenders are, once they're surrounded and all their options have also been closed down, that puts stupid extra pressure on the recipient. It invites errors, it's a recipe for blunders. That's not an excuse, it's just plain common sense so if you refuse to accept that then I give up trying to reason with you.

I repeat the answer is simple: the keeper needs to get the ball out to a defender as quick as he can, BEFORE the opponent has time to close him down. That way at least he and his teammates will have more space and time to safely pass it out from the back and launch an attack before the opponent has time to get their act together to effect the high press.

I did, I think in certain match ups, it's better to intentionally turn the ball over high with the intention of winning it back quickly than to try and build from the back

Of course there are always times when the keeper needs to clear the ball upfield quickly but a balance has to be struck between that and working it out from the back - even against a high press. I've witnessed far too many games in the past (and I'm sure you have too) when the keeper has punted it upfield every time only for it come straight back and create even greater pressure on a beleagured defence.

 

[alekaras]

I know this is cliche, but let's think about it: a fit and firing Wanyama, Lamela, Winks, Toby, and Rose, players who we got very little out of last season, would be like new signings. Add to that a bedded in Moura. So why is everyone saying that not making new signings are an issue? Who would we have dropped? We have a very good and deep squad. If there is one position we could have filled it's probably the Dembele one, but even then who is to say that player would have been up to speed this early in the season?