***OMT*** Tottenham Hotspur vs Crystal Palace

[Pirate55]

Some positives. Three points. Away win. Soldado scored on his competitive debut. Clean sheet. Avoided banana skin. Decent early signs from new boys, especially Capoue.

Some negatives. Not creating enough. Won only half as many aerial challenges as CP. Lennon did some good running off the ball ((for a change) but final ball poor. Still need some more attack minded players - either Bale or 2 or 3 replacements.

Conclusion: a curates egg. More work still needs to be done especially to beat the lesser teams where our counter attacking style is not effective.

 

[Eriktheviking]

Its so vogue on here at the momentto think that any win is great, gonads and to shout your mouth off at anyone who doesnt blinker themself to anything bad is damn right rude. Play like that all season and we wont get anywhere. Its the same as last season, poor passing, poor movement and apprehensive in possession. If we cant fix the basic things wrong with the club over the last 2 seasons we cant move on. We look like arsenal at times, trying to walk the ball into the net.

 

[Rorschach]

Just like Hoddle or Souness said, we now have that fox in the box striker in Soldado that can win games on his own, with just one chance.

If we keep Bale then all I can say, is we will have 2 out & out match winners who will cause absolutely anyone problems.

I hate having a moan when we have won but the one thing that disappointed me today was Siggy. I thought this game was set up for him to really make his mark but it didn't really happen for him. He got involved a lot, often in the wrongs areas I thought, but ultimately he didn't affect the game all that much. He looked very leggy to me and I thought he was bullied off the ball far too easily as well.

I don't think you can overstate the importance of that position IMO. Whoever plays there needs to be dictating the tempo of our attack and feeding balls into Soldado on a regular basis. With the right player in there Soldado will become so much more effective . Maybe that player is Holby, or one the players we have been linked with, Pjanic or Eriksen. I dont know but I feel this is the missing link in our team at the moment. Siggy needs to do much much better if he wants to claim that position for himself.

That aside I though everybody else's positive contributions far outweighed any negatives. Good start.

 

[braineclipse]

Its so vogue on here at the momentto think that any win is great, gonads and to shout your mouth off at anyone who doesnt blinker themself to anything bad is damn right rude. Play like that all season and we wont get anywhere. Its the same as last season, poor passing, poor movement and apprehensive in possession. If we cant fix the basic things wrong with the club over the last 2 seasons we cant move on. We look like arsenal at times, trying to walk the ball into the net.

Last season we were one point behind 4th and 3 points behind 3rd.

Most people that are positive on here realize that there are plenty of things that we need to improve on in the future if we want to reach our goals.

 

[braineclipse]

I hate having a moan when we have won but the one thing that disappointed me today was Siggy. I thought this game was set up for him to really make his mark but it didn't really happen for him. He got involved a lot, often in the wrongs areas I thought, but ultimately he didn't affect the game all that much. He looked very leggy to me and I thought he was bullied off the ball far too easily as well.

I don't think you can overstate the importance of that position IMO. Whoever plays there needs to be dictating the tempo of our attack and feeding balls into Soldado on a regular basis. With the right player in there Soldado will become so much more effective . Maybe that player is Holby, or one the players we have been linked with, Pjanic or Eriksen. I dont know but I feel this is the missing link in our team at the moment. Siggy needs to do much much better if he wants to claim that position for himself.

That aside I though everybody else's positive contributions far outweighed any negatives. Good start.

Not really Siggy's game imo.

To me at least he thrives on getting fed good passes in the final third himself. When he excelled at Swansea he had Britton and Allen dictating tempo and controlling the game behind him. According to whoscored he averaged 37 passes per game during his time there, not very high for Swansea. He can feed through balls and he can score, but he needs those passes to him in danger areas to thrive and he's not really someone that dictates play imo.

I know some here really want to see him in a deeper role where he can do what you ask whilst contributing goals and assists bursting into the final third, personally I'm yet to see him do well in a role like that, but I'm willing to wait and see if he's given that chance at some point.

He came very close twice today, especially his first dangerous shot was extremely well taken. Getting chances, getting shots off, getting some good crosses into the box and when given a chance to set someone up actually providing a good pass is what I'm expecting from him.

To me though, dictating play is more the job of a deeper playmaker like Carrick, Modric etc.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I hate having a moan when we have won but the one thing that disappointed me today was Siggy. I thought this game was set up for him to really make his mark but it didn't really happen for him. He got involved a lot, often in the wrongs areas I thought, but ultimately he didn't affect the game all that much. He looked very leggy to me and I thought he was bullied off the ball far too easily as well.

I don't think you can overstate the importance of that position IMO. Whoever plays there needs to be dictating the tempo of our attack and feeding balls into Soldado on a regular basis. With the right player in there Soldado will become so much more effective . Maybe that player is Holby, or one the players we have been linked with, Pjanic or Eriksen. I dont know but I feel this is the missing link in our team at the moment. Siggy needs to do much much better if he wants to claim that position for himself.

That aside I though everybody else's positive contributions far outweighed any negatives. Good start.

From want ve seen of Germany's user 21s Holtby can play that role.

I have to say Siggy does no look like he is realising his potential with us. Last season he was ok at best. Today he was our worse player. I'd love him to be a success but I think tha he is a player that won't fi in at Spurs

That position of Bale goes is our weakness and its so important with one up top. We need a numbe 10 desperate if we're really gonna push on this season

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Its so vogue on here at the momentto think that any win is great, gonads and to shout your mouth off at anyone who doesnt blinker themself to anything bad is damn right rude. Play like that all season and we wont get anywhere. Its the same as last season, poor passing, poor movement and apprehensive in possession. If we cant fix the basic things wrong with the club over the last 2 seasons we cant move on. We look like arsenal at times, trying to walk the ball into the net.

I read some of your earlier posts and thought 'Oh no Eriks another one who has rumbled how we play'. As you say we don't pass and move very well, very rarely pop any 1 touch passing around and do look a bit devoid of ideas and inventiveness.

BUT (and you knew there was a but) beyond just the reasons it was a good if uninspiring win today (away, newly promoted team, sh*tty pre-season, little time together for the new boys) there are imo valid reasons you have to cut AVB and the team a bit of slack for the foreseeable.

You cannot say 'if we play like that we wont get anywhere' and 'it was the same as last season' AVB came in last season and had to implement his ideas on the group, after a shaky start things got going and although we weren't spectacular we racked up more prem points than we ever have and our most away wins. So we did get somewhere, alas 1pt shy of CL.

This season its been a bit nearer revolution than evolution (and of course that is AVB/Levy choice), but AVB has got players that he wants, the downside is so with many new recruits (and younes,sandro,rose) the team has to adjust, familiarise and probably re-learn AVB's ideas. I wouldn't say back to square one, but you know what i mean. Hopefully the men he has chosen are more suited to his plans.

I've got a feeling we will never be truly exciting, more of a version of Mourinho's Chelsea team when he was first at Stamford Bridge. Determined, powerful, pace, great keeper and just enough flair when needed. Definitely good enough to win things.....but not really in the Tottenham way.

Chin up give it another 8/9 games see how we are. (hope Swansea don't pass us off the pitch next week)

 

[Rorschach]

Not really Siggy's game imo.

To me at least he thrives on getting fed good passes in the final third himself. When he excelled at Swansea he had Britton and Allen dictating tempo and controlling the game behind him. According to whoscored he averaged 37 passes per game during his time there, not very high for Swansea. He can feed through balls and he can score, but he needs those passes to him in danger areas to thrive and he's not really someone that dictates play imo.

I know some here really want to see him in a deeper role where he can do what you ask whilst contributing goals and assists bursting into the final third, personally I'm yet to see him do well in a role like that, but I'm willing to wait and see if he's given that chance at some point.

He came very close twice today, especially his first dangerous shot was extremely well taken. Getting chances, getting shots off, getting some good crosses into the box and when given a chance to set someone up actually providing a good pass is what I'm expecting from him.

To me though, dictating play is more the job of a deeper playmaker like Carrick, Modric etc.

Yes I think you are right about this. Siggy is more of a Lampard type by his own admission, and so is Paulinho apparently :-k. A different type player in that position instead of Siggy for me would change the whole dynamic of the team from an attacking perspective. To be honest I'm not sure how Siggy fits into the team any more.

Aside - I was just over on RAWK to see their reaction to the news we're back in for Willian and I was reading their comments on our game today. As you would expect they are highlighting our lack of creativity, as are many on here also, and a lot of them were pointing at Siggy as the weak link in our setup today. I had to agree with a lot of their comments and they have justifiable concerns that us getting Willian or someone of his ilk will be just what we need to step us up to the next level.

Edit - just on your last point I was thinking more of a player more in the Mata, Isco mould that is the fulcrum of the attack rather than a deep lying playmaker.

 

[Yiddo]

So MOTD 2 focused on Bale rather than our performance against palace =D>

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Not really Siggy's game imo.

To me at least he thrives on getting fed good passes in the final third himself. When he excelled at Swansea he had Britton and Allen dictating tempo and controlling the game behind him. According to whoscored he averaged 37 passes per game during his time there, not very high for Swansea. He can feed through balls and he can score, but he needs those passes to him in danger areas to thrive and he's not really someone that dictates play imo.

From want ve seen of Germany's user 21s Holtby can play that role.

I have to say Siggy does no look like he is realising his potential with us. Last season he was ok at best. Today he was our worse player. I'd love him to be a success but I think tha he is a player that won't fi in at Spurs

That position of Bale goes is our weakness and its so important with one up top. We need a numbe 10 desperate if we're really gonna push on this season

I agree with Braineclipse analysis of the best scenario for Siggy. Basically where he played today.

I think he was no more than ok today, but if that is where he wants to play you have to be a bit fairer and give him more than 1 lge game and a couple of cr*ppy friendlies before writing him off. He did do it brilliantly with Swansea. Last year he never played there (correct me if i'm wrong) but still had some good games. Also he is a genuine goal threat and if it did work ou for him i can see 12-15 goals a year from him.

Also remember Bale staying doesn't cure any of the worries mentioned....he isn't the type of player we are thinking we need in that position (just a one man match winner instead)

 

[SlumDilla]

Siggy needs a goal to get going this season. After that he will put together good performances.

 

[braineclipse]

Yes I think you are right about this. Siggy is more of a Lampard type by his own admission, and so is Paulinho apparently :-k. A different type player in that position instead of Siggy for me would change the whole dynamic of the team from an attacking perspective. To be honest I'm not sure how Siggy fits into the team any more.

Aside - I was just over on RAWK to see their reaction to the news we're back in for Willian and I was reading their comments on our game today. As you would expect they are highlighting our lack of creativity, as are many on here also, and a lot of them were pointing at Siggy as the weak link in our setup today. I had to agree with a lot of their comments and they have justifiable concerns that us getting Willian or someone of his ilk will be just what we need to step us up to the next level.

Edit - just on your last point I was thinking more of a player more in the Mata, Isco mould that is the fulcrum of the attack rather than a deep lying playmaker.

If Bale stays that will be his position as long as we play 4-2-3-1, changes a bit if we move to a 4-3-3.

For me at least dictating our play and tempo should come from the deeper players. Yes, a Mata, Isco, Silva player can greatly influence that, but it's not really needed to be able to get what you're asking for I think.

For me at least I'm willing to give both Paulinho and Capoue a lot of time. I'm really liking what I'm seeing from Capoue. Paulinho did things fairly simply today, but I think he's better on the ball than he's being given credit for on this board after signing and during pre-season.

Up the passing tempo deep along the back 4 and deep 1-2 central midfielders and all of a sudden the passes into the final third improve and those players get a lot better as they get that little bit of space to operate in when they receive the ball. I'm hoping that we'll see signs of this as those two new players get integrated, regardless of formation (I'm expecting more 4-3-3 this season).

If we're able to keep Bale and add one of Willian or Lamela or sell Bale and get both of those we'll be a hell of a lot better. Just adding Willian to the team today I imagine would make us significantly better of course.

Like you I think Siggy might end up struggling for game time this season.

 

[Charlie]

I agree with Braineclipse analysis of the best scenario for Siggy. Basically where he played today.

I think he was no more than ok today, but if that is where he wants to play you have to be a bit fairer and give him more than 1 lge game and a couple of cr*ppy friendlies before writing him off. He did do it brilliantly with Swansea. Last year he never played there (correct me if i'm wrong) but still had some good games. Also he is a genuine goal threat and if it did work ou for him i can see 12-15 goals a year from him.

Also remember Bale staying doesn't cure any of the worries mentioned....he isn't the type of player we are thinking we need in that position (just a one man match winner instead)

He played in the no 10 role for the first few games of the season. His performance was not very good. The no 10 role was taken later by Dempsey. Later in the season, he did well as the LM/LW after Bale moved to the middle/right.

 

[Rorschach]

If Bale stays that will be his position as long as we play 4-2-3-1, changes a bit if we move to a 4-3-3.

For me at least dictating our play and tempo should come from the deeper players. Yes, a Mata, Isco, Silva player can greatly influence that, but it's not really needed to be able to get what you're asking for I think.

For me at least I'm willing to give both Paulinho and Capoue a lot of time. I'm really liking what I'm seeing from Capoue. Paulinho did things fairly simply today, but I think he's better on the ball than he's being given credit for on this board after signing and during pre-season.

Up the passing tempo deep along the back 4 and deep 1-2 central midfielders and all of a sudden the passes into the final third improve and those players get a lot better as they get that little bit of space to operate in when they receive the ball. I'm hoping that we'll see signs of this as those two new players get integrated, regardless of formation (I'm expecting more 4-3-3 this season).

If we're able to keep Bale and add one of Willian or Lamela or sell Bale and get both of those we'll be a hell of a lot better. Just adding Willian to the team today I imagine would make us significantly better of course.

Like you I think Siggy might end up struggling for game time this season.

I think this is where we fundamentally disagree (and have before ). If I take your point correctly you think we can compensate for the number 10 position in other ways, and I'm sure we can, but I think that to add that to the direct running and dribblers that we have would enhance us. Two of Capoue (who looks great btw), Dembele, Sandro and Paulinho as a platform feeding a 10 and then one to break beyond would add another dimension to our attack, as Andre would say.

I was half watching RM play tonight and although they didn't play particularly well I can see similarities to Spurs in terms of playing style. RM is a template for a powerful, direct team also utilising a pure number 10. On numerous occasions tonight they had 3-4 runners running past the defensive line looking for the straight or diagonal ball from Isco. Betis really struggled to cope (but did actually for the most part). It certainly wasn't their only method of attack with Ronaldo on the pitch but one that I personally like. I look at our personnel and for me we are setup perfectly for this approach, especially if Bale stays. Even with a deep sitting teams that RM and Barca face regularly I see them making these passes inside the full backs, and between the CB's all the time. We have a clever mover in Soldado and we need to feed him decent service.

I think if we sign Willian we'll play him left, and then we are moving our creativity left which might suit Paulinho or Siggy (through the middle).

Anyway, that's enough bollox for one night

 

[Jordinho]

Just seen this regarding Holloway's moaning: His Blackpool side were given two penalties in 60 secs at WHL.

 

[Nigeyman]

Holloway's comments are a bit silly....and normally I want him to do well as he seems quite likeable...at the end of the day he can moan as much as he wants.....we came we saw and we just about sneaked the points.....WE GOT 3 Points....I knew this game wasn't going to be easy and with difficult games coming up I was really fearful for us if we didn't get a result.

Overall there were far more positives than negatives.....and there a massive reasons for us to be optimistic this season.......I can see AVB's thinking tactically and in line with the players that have come in....our ability to adapt tactics is impressive......4-2-3-1 can easily go to 4-3-3 & 4-4-2 depending on the situation...we have a very adaptable playing staff with decent depth on the bench.

Lloris earnt us two points today and not just the save near the end - his decision making was incredible today...he is like lightening anticipating danger...of course he will occasionally make an error like last season pool away....Lloris on this form is gonna earn lots of points for us.....

Verts was amazing. Rose made a vital tackle on Gayle near the end.....Walker was the instigator of positive attacks down the right....needs to work on his defensive game though......

I feel buoyant....we could have played better but only picked up one point......we have three points and the starting foundation of something positive...... there will be other games where a team is not set up so narrow & Deep like palace where our creativity can be assessed again.

Next we have Swansea (epl) which will be very interesting going on how slick they are with the ball.....

A scrappy win is what I would have taken as I knew this would be difficult - massive respect to Palace fans they were brill...great atmosphere...

three points safely in the bank ------onwards & upwards.

 

[thfcsteff]

Its so vogue on here at the momentto think that any win is great, gonads and to shout your mouth off at anyone who doesnt blinker themself to anything bad is damn right rude. Play like that all season and we wont get anywhere. Its the same as last season, poor passing, poor movement and apprehensive in possession. If we cant fix the basic things wrong with the club over the last 2 seasons we cant move on. We look like arsenal at times, trying to walk the ball into the net.

Rubbish.
It's called having a sense of perspective. Do you GENUINELY believe that AVB wants that exact type of performance this season? He's just happy to have got out of there with a win on the first day of the season when his pre-season was basically ramsacked by Madrid tapping up Bale left, right and centre. To your final sentence (and i hate saying this) if we look like Arsenal then we will certainly be in the top 4. Come on! The truth is that AVB knows everything all the moaners are saying with extra on top because, well, he's the manager...'in vogue' LOL...

 

[AberYid]

My 100% streak goes on. I only do wins.

 

[Mosquito_Coasting]

I was watching with a Portuguese friend and he commentated on how fast we are and quick onto the ball. I think we will just smother teams a lot this season. I like the way AVB totally has his own exact vision of how he wants us to play even if it's not totally the Tottenham ideal. Can't remember that from a manager of ours so precisely before and it inspires confidence. We've lost players I liked a lot like VDV, Kranjcar, Hud and now it looks like Ekotto but I do just trust in AVB's way and can now see when he wants a physical, fast player like Rose above the craft of BAE then he's right as he's building a team not just playing the most talented individuals.

 

[Mosquito_Coasting]

We keep complaining about a lack of creativity (I've been feeling this a lot all summer) but we're amassing more Premier League points than ever before. Maybe we just want the football to look a little better and AVB knows better and just wants the points.