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***OMT - Tottenham Hotspur v Wolverhampton Wanderers, Molineux, Sat 25th April, 3pm - ***

harr1984 said:
Frank had been taking down for months, the downward trajectory started with him and it wasn't for just a few games. He was sacked after not winning a game in our last nine Premier League games.

If you don't think not winning for such a period of time doesn't impact the players confidence I'm not sure what to say.
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I can’t imagine the 22 PL losses last season helped.

As for today…well, we’ve mathematically still got hope, but we were turgid for a large part of the game. I struggle to see us beating any of Villa, Leeds or Everton, never mind all three.
 
thfcsteff said:
Oh I'll speak for myself.
I'm still here.
He absolutely fudged us this season.
He was also let down by the hierarchy (the ONE area of sympathy he has had from me consistently is that he had to deal with the Levy-getting-booted stuff which would've been very destabilizing).
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Yet two other managers have done worse. How do you isolate it being on Frank? If you'd said injuries absolutely fuked up this season, it would seem a lot more rational. We've had no attacking quality or confidence, across 3 managers. And Frank rarely had Solanke.
 
Mikey10 said:
I can’t imagine the 22 PL losses last season helped.

As for today…well, we’ve mathematically still got hope, but we were turgid for a large part of the game. I struggle to see us beating any of Villa, Leeds or Everton, never mind all three.
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Well the popular line trotted out up until two hours ago was 'I can't see us winning another game this season' so that's progress at least :)....
 
harr1984 said:
Well the popular line trotted out up until two hours ago was 'I can't see us winning another game this season' so that's progress at least :)....
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Yeah, it’s a win, but against an already relegated side, and it was a poor performance.

Maybe we’ll be different at home again, but Leeds are flying and I think we’ll struggle away at Villa.

I have a feeling we could beat Everton at home but it will make no difference.
 
Mikey10 said:
I can’t imagine the 22 PL losses last season helped.

As for today…well, we’ve mathematically still got hope, but we were turgid for a large part of the game. I struggle to see us beating any of Villa, Leeds or Everton, never mind all three.
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I agree with that … but the hope is

Villa focused on the Euro double fixture … their squad depth is not that deep… so hoping for the reserves.

Leeds, tricky. They look well drilled.

Chelsea, they always turn up against us … but this no body manager they got and their form … gives me hope.

Everton … can’t be going into the final game at home trying to get a result as Everton will do us I think.
 
Mikey10 said:
I can’t imagine the 22 PL losses last season helped.
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Well exactly - our slide towards the relegation places started long before Frank arrived. Ultimately he couldn't stop that slide or turn it around, so needed to go in an attempt to try and get a bounce but when you're 2 seasons in to performing at this level it's time to face up to the players just not being good enough.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Yet two other managers have done worse. How do you isolate it being on Frank? If you'd said injuries absolutely fuked up this season, it would seem a lot more rational. We've had no attacking quality or confidence, across 3 managers. And Frank rarely had Solanke.
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Do you really want me to break down my perspective, in detail, again?
Does anyone?
I've been very clear.
I would be happy to do so, but if you really want me to go there, let's re-litigate this in the Thomas Frank thread.
 
billyiddo said:
Well exactly - our slide towards the relegation places started long before Frank arrived. Ultimately he couldn't stop that slide or turn it around, so needed to go in an attempt to try and get a bounce but when you're 2 seasons in to performing at this level it's time to face up to the players just not being good enough.
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It’s genuinely like the 22 losses didn’t happen at times on here, numerous posts across numerous threads that seem to make out everything was fantastic because we won the Europa and it would all kick on this season. Then dastardly Thomas Frank came along and ruined it all.

This downward spiral was setting in long before Thomas rolled up, he just happened to be the bad choice that couldn’t improve it.
 
thfcsteff said:
Do you really want me to break down my perspective, in detail, again?
Does anyone?
I've been very clear.
I would be happy to do so, but if you really want me to go there, let's re-litigate this in the Thomas Frank thread.
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That does sound like a threat. Lets pass!

We just need consistency. Whoever the manager. None of them are 'bad' managers per se. All have shown skills and success at other clubs (and even at Spurs with what was available).
 
Rafa87 said:
It’s genuinely like the 22 losses didn’t happen at times on here, numerous posts across numerous threads that seem to make out everything was fantastic because we won the Europa and it would all kick on this season. Then dastardly Thomas Frank came along and ruined it all.

This downward spiral was setting in long before Thomas rolled up, he just happened to be the bad choice that couldn’t improve it.
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I'll tell you what I don't understand about this eternal argument/disagreement.
Why is absolutely no credence whatsoever given to the potential power, magic, and alchemy of actually winning a trophy after all the brick last season? It's as if only a fudging idiot could possibly suggest that such momentum was possible.
Of course, I'd further argue that our data-chimps -you know, the ones in the boardroom who disregard such 'human hokum' and instead produce droves of spread-sheets and data to 'prove' why certain 'profiles' and 'metrics' are the future- have been the true architects of our downfall. Every time we've had a chance to sign a top player decisively, we fail to get it across the line, usually because 'data' has suggested a better-priced alternative with 'sell-on value' and all the rest of it. I love signing younger players but I also love to see true, true quality signed when it's needed and available.
 
Rafa87 said:
It’s genuinely like the 22 losses didn’t happen at times on here, numerous posts across numerous threads that seem to make out everything was fantastic because we won the Europa and it would all kick on this season. Then dastardly Thomas Frank came along and ruined it all.

This downward spiral was setting in long before Thomas rolled up, he just happened to be the bad choice that couldn’t improve it.
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Interestingly both Leeds and Forest showing you can stil stay competitive in the PL while fighting in their respective cup competitions. That is as much a mentality thing set by the manager.

Anyway the thing is it's injuries that have been decisive over the last 2 seasons. And they continue to be.

I think we need to stay tight defensively over the next few games and try to nick a goal like today. We don't have enough creativity to take the game to the teams. Especially away.from home.
 
thfcsteff said:
I'll tell you what I don't understand about this eternal argument/disagreement.
Why is absolutely no credence whatsoever given to the potential power, magic, and alchemy of actually winning a trophy after all the brick last season?
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I would say mainly because cups are in no way indicative of league form or ability.

Southampton are 5th in the Championship and were 10 minutes away from beating City. I don't expecting them to be pushing for a Champions League place next season.
 
Massive win for us today. Made a whole lot harder with Solanke and Xavi going off and potentially missing who knows how much of the rest of the season.

The narrative in the press will change ahead of next Monday to be that we’ve not won a home game this year
 
Robspur12 said:
Interestingly both Leeds and Forest showing you can stil stay competitive in the PL while fighting in their respective cup competitions. That is as much a mentality thing set by the manager.

Anyway the thing is it's injuries that have been decisive over the last 2 seasons. And they continue to be.

I think we need to stay tight defensively over the next few games and try to nick a goal like today. We don't have enough creativity to take the game to the teams. Especially away.from home.
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When the club clearly does not back the manager then it gets tricky. I include both Postecoglu and Frank in that equation.
I agree, injuries have been decisive, however this season, I think the recruitment has been particularly unhelpful.
 
fernadez said:
I would say mainly because cups are in no way indicative of league form or ability.

Southampton are 5th in the Championship and were 10 minutes away from beating City. I don't expecting them to be pushing for a Champions League place next season.
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But you're missing the point I'm making (and of course, disagreement is all good, just want to make sure I am clear).

There is an alchemy and magic which comes in football that is unquantifiable. When we won the cup in 81 (admittedly a lifetime ago but within mine :-)) it catapulted us to have an incredible season the following.
We had a poor season last season in terms of league performances and injuries. We found a way to win a trophy.
That group of players could've ended up being galvanized and found the gel/fortitude to build and progress. Certainly not a given by any stretch, yet also not instantly dismissible as a theory.
 
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