*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Some european team ***

[Raziel]

The tactical setup was poor, but it's not what lost us the game IMO. I don't care if it's a diamond, ruby or anything other dug up from the dirt. We're not a bad team on paper, but we've become a dog brick TEAM. I have put forward several times the unpopular opinion that Son and Kane together is anything but optimal. When was the last time someone squared it for an easy tap-in? A surefire goal in the bank? When being a hero is more important than being a winner, you will often be neither. We regularly use the excuse that teams park the bus against us to play sideways and being static, but Bayern had no problems passing inbetween our two banks of whatever. Because they move. They make runs for each other. We don't anymore.

What we do is asking poor Winks to play as something he's not equipped to do. We are using Sissoko as our main creative outlet from the middle, our arguably worst passer who for some reason has become our arguably best passer. We have sold our first choice RB while waiting for two CBs to replace our present first choice RB. We are severely unbalanced, ending this game with 5 AMs (Kane being one of them). I can understand having a go, but that requires you to actually have a go, not continuing to do what's not working. And resorting to hoofball with no one up front is just weird. We were not record-breaking 7 smacks in the face poor the entire game, far from it, but we really pulled our knickers down and bent over at the end. It hurts.

- The tactical setup was poor, the opposition came with a strategy to play against it, i.e. sit back, compress, invite our press and hit over the top. Was clear from first 10 minutes, yet we never adapted.
- I agree with the pairing, we have Son, Lucas, Kane, Dele, Lamela but no pairs or strikers who seem to help/complement each other.
- Winks is not good enough for the role we ask him to play, one or two games where he played well doesn't change that.
- The FB's went full AVB on us tonight, overcommitted, out of position, leaving the CB's completely exposed.
- No idea what Dele has done to get the nod tonight over Lamela or Lucas.
- Opposition was clinical

Bad formation, failure to realize player limitations, persistence with something that hasn't been working, failure to adapt.

This one sits on Poch and it will cost him.

 

[Rorschach]

would you persist?

He should've gone after the CL. It was the perfect mutual parting time. He would have left loved, we'd have got the reboot we needed. Now its all hella messy.

I don't agree with that. Losing a CL final is no disgrace - at least we were there. I'm not blind to the poor performances since the turn of the year, but he had plenty of credit in the bank IMO. Less credit now I might add.

 

[Moby]

Do you think it might be something to do with the preparation and coaching?

Silly formation, bad morale, incorrect player selection, and wrong individual roles also key.

 

[Raziel]

As Milo said at 4-2 we chased the game and put on another attacker. Would you have preferred we just shut up shop as a smaller team might have? I can take losing 7-2 because sometimes we'll fight back to 4-4. But we were tired having played more recently and with 10. In hindsight, we needed more men in midfield not less.

Did Byern bring on another midfielder? We seemed to be outnumbered in the middle second half.

It is not about chasing the game, it's about not seeing the counter.

Bayern sucked us in and hoofed it over the top over and fudging over.

Poch's job should have been to designate one player to sit back to cover to avoid the 3 vs. 2 on the CB's, that's why it was fudging 7, not because we were chasing.

 

[Baleforce]

Liverpool's players had been there before, with a manager who had been there twice before, having won the Bundesliga and the DFB Pokal multiple times as well. As a club, they had been there and won five times.

Our players had never been there before, our manager had never and has never won anything, and our club had never been there before.

Yes, Liverpool went there to win. Their whole structure was built to let them win that game- players, coach and history.

For us, Poch was just one of the elements that led to us losing. But, conversely, he was probably the biggest element in us getting there in the first place, because he went against our history and the mentalities of our players to do so.

I just think it's really harsh to blame him for us losing that game. We had a lot against us, right from the start.

but Liverpool also had to deal with only having Liverpool players and being managed by the Liverpool manager

it was an open goal for Poch, and he missed

 

[fernadez]

Look at Alli for example

Doesn't play
Plays crap in the cup
Doesn't play
Starts in Champions League.

Where's the logic behind that?

Why is it so random, certain players don't have to play their way into form, some it doesn't matter etc

Not having a pop at the player but selection at times seems to be based on favoritism more than anything.

 

[SpurMeUp]

fudge me

Can you get a gram and change your user name back now?

 

[NLS]

Time for my rant...

So many goals tonight were caused by basic footballing errors... 3 were from the full backs not being goal side when the opposition were in possession. 2 were from failing to get rid of the ball when under pressure around our box... Toby badly misplaced a pass that led to another... just pathetic and if we make such mistakes, as we are doing all the time now, we cannot consistently win games..

In addition to both full backs being poor defensively, Alli looked like he was having a 5 a side over the park and Winks kept getting caught in possession. But nobody on the pitch says anything. No leader shouting at people when they mess up - nobody moans at Ericsen when yet another corner fails to clear the first defender?? We let a goal in and Lloris stands there just shaking his head.. He's supposed to be the f...ing captain!!!


This has gone on for too long and Poch is mainly to blame... The team are playing with an arrogance that has come from a manager who himself has become arrogant. His book while still at the club and his talk of leaving the club if we had won the champions league are the best two examples.. He has failed to bring in the right players when we can all see what is needed. He is always full of excuses but often sets the team up wrongly and is inacapable of grinding out a result the way we have seen other teams do against us...Like f...ing Colchester and Saudi Sportswashing Machine for example...

Something is clearly very wrong at the club and If there is a split between the players I cannot see Poch as the man to solve any of it.. Time for him to go and whoever else is not willing to their all to the team can clear off with him..

 

[Baleforce]

Look at Alli for example

Doesn't play
Plays crap in the cup
Doesn't play
Starts in Champions League.

Where's the logic behind that?

Why is it so random, certain players don't have to play their way into form, some it doesn't matter etc

Not having a pop at the player but selection at times seems to be based on favoritism more than anything.

he’s too close to some of them no question

is that a factor in not moving some of them on, did they not get the message that they should be out?

 

[DeanoAustin]

As Milo said at 4-2 we chased the game and put on another attacker. Would you have preferred we just shut up shop as a smaller team might have? I can take losing 7-2 because sometimes we'll fight back to 4-4. But we were tired having played more recently and with 10. In hindsight, we needed more men in midfield not less.

Did Byern bring on another midfielder? We seemed to be outnumbered in the middle second half.

Ah come on mate. Even at 4-2, we looked ridiculously vulnerable. They had acres in front of our back 4. We never really looked like getting back into it because if we scored, they'd have gone up the other end and scored too even before he made suicidal substitutions.

We're so frail defensively at the moment. The personnel are just not good enough individually or as a unit. And yet the manager is setting us up to accentuate those weaknesses rather than cover them. That was very apparent at 4-2. The last 3 goals were just the icing on a cake that was well baked at that stage.

 

[Armchair Expert]

I don't agree with that. Losing a CL final is no disgrace - at least we were there. I'm not blind to the poor performances since the turn of the year, but he had plenty of credit in the bank IMO. Less credit now I might add.

Losing the CL wasn't a disgrace, of course not. It would've just provided a good time to part company. He was making noises about leaving, has given the impression he doesn't want to be here, and now its all falling apart and we're rapidly approaching a sacking. He acted like he was bigger than the club and it was a recipe for disaster.

His stock would've been tremendously high after the CL, not so much now. Where would he go now?

 

[fernadez]

Completely had wiped from my memory the fact that Alli refuses to do anything simple anymore. I know Lamela is guilty of it sometimes but at least he's moving forward.

There was one point Alli could have shot from 12 yards but wanted to start Riverdancing instead.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Poch needs to get our defense and midfield tight. Our heart is missing at the moment. We need that foundation back. Going back to a screening DM seems to make sense. Then let Ndombele and Eriksen play in front with LeCelco and Winks as cover for them. Sissoko/Dier/Wanyama as the screener. With cover, the FBs can also get forward more freely.

 

[Baleforce]

Ah come on mate. Even at 4-2, we looked ridiculously vulnerable. They had acres in front of our back 4. We never really looked like getting back into it because if we scored, they'd have gone up the other end and scored too even before he made suicidal substitutions.

We're so frail defensively at the moment. The personnel are just not good enough individually or as a unit. And yet the manager is setting us up to accentuate those weaknesses rather than cover them. That was very apparent at 4-2. The last 3 goals were just the icing on a cake that was well baked at that stage.

they looked as bad as us at the back imo

 

[Rorschach]

Losing the CL wasn't a disgrace, of course not. It would've just provided a good time to part company. He was making noises about leaving, has given the impression he doesn't want to be here, and now its all falling apart and we're rapidly approaching a sacking. He acted like he was bigger than the club and it was a recipe for disaster.

His stock would've been tremendously high after the CL, not so much now. Where would he go now?

He does say some silly things to be sure, especially about his commitment to the club, but I'm still behind him - just.

 

[elltrev]

I was at the game, and believe it or not I don’t think it was the disaster most people have seen it as. I’m not a fan of the diamond, but we had the better chances first half from what I could see - Bayern were just more clinical. And second half Poch switched to 4-2-3-1 / 4-4-2 as far as I could tell, and we still conceded two sloppy goals. The 3 goals in the last 7 minutes make the score horrific, but a) we were going for it and b) their finishing was absurdly good. Indeed, according to Michael Caley their XG for the entire game was 2.1.

I also thought the players were committed, maybe until falling apart at the very end.

In the context of the recent troubles I can see why it might feel like the nail in the coffin, but ignoring that context I think the result was far, far worse than the performance.

 

[Rorschach]

Poch needs to get our defense and midfield tight. Our heart is missing at the moment. We need that foundation back. Going back to a screening DM seems to make sense. Then let Ndombele and Eriksen play in front with LeCelco and Winks as cover for them. Sissoko/Dier/Wanyama as the screener. With cover, the FBs can also get forward more freely.

Dier for me. Wanyama is done, and as much as Sissoko puts in the effort he is not tactically as adept as Dier. Dier's own form has not been great but we have looked solid in the past when he is in there. Back to basics.

 

[Armchair Expert]

they looked as bad as us at the back imo

I don't see it. They probably had no idea what they were doing for the first 15 minutes as I'm not sure we did. We could all see we were manically careering around the place like headless chickens and it wouldn't last. They finally got their foot on the ball and that was that.

Then they chucked another, highly technical midfielder on at half time to overwhelm our already knackered and non-existent midfield. They then scored a further five.

One team had shape, tactics and played fluent football, the other was relying on over exertion and individual talent. There was light years between the teams from the first whistle to the final.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Ah come on mate. Even at 4-2, we looked ridiculously vulnerable. They had acres in front of our back 4. We never really looked like getting back into it because if we scored, they'd have gone up the other end and scored too even before he made suicidal substitutions.

We're so frail defensively at the moment. The personnel are just not good enough individually or as a unit. And yet the manager is setting us up to accentuate those weaknesses rather than
cover them. That was very apparent at 4-2. The last 3 goals were just the icing on a cake that was well baked at that stage.

I agree the subs at the end just weakened us further where we were already vulnerable. Ironically it was Bayern who were missing a man in midfield. THey brought on Thaigo at HT. Then we were the team missing a man in the middle. Easy to sit here afterwards and say Poch shouldn't have subbed Winks for Lamela, when we did look capable of getting more goals.

Poch has never been masterful at changing things during the game. Or seeing things clearly. He's better post-game, where maybe a team dissects the performance. And he usually reacts in the right way.

 

[Baleforce]

I don't see it. They probably had no idea what they were doing for the first 15 minutes as I'm not sure we did. We could all see we were manically careering around the place like headless chickens and it wouldn't last. They finally got their foot on the ball and that was that.

Then they chucked another, highly technical midfielder on at half time to overwhelm our already knackered and non-existent midfield. They then scored a further five.

One team had shape, tactics and played fluent football, the other was relying on over exertion and individual talent. There was light years between the teams from the first whistle to the final.

I didn’t foresee our midfield running out of steam or individual talent not being enough.

I’m clearly one of the optimists around here though.