JerusalemMan
Rafael Van Der Vaart
That was Phil McNulty's needling little analysis piece. It still mentions the self-destruct thing in the text under the headline on the main page.
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***OMT - Tottenham Hotspur v Leeds United, Mon May 11th, 8pm, Tottenham Hotspur Stadium***
- Thread starter thfcsteff
- Start date
Mr Gogolak
Tony Parks
It's hard not to feel down after last night, but we remain in the driving seat. Chelsea fans hate us, so it will be another test of the team's character. I really wished it hadn't come to this but like someone mentioned earlier, the injury after our goal sort of knocked the rhythm out of the team. We gradually let them regain control of the match. It's a shame but that wasn't our best performance under De Zerbi and Leeds are doing well at the moment.
Also, have to disagree with everybody else: for me, it wasn't a penalty for Leeds. Tel played the ball and the Leeds player rushed onto him. It should have been an indirect freekick as Tel did play in 'a dangerous manner' but I don't think it qualified as a careless or reckless action. Anyway, what's done is done. There's no way of know how Chelsea are going to approach that game. Their fans hate us, but I don't think any of their player gives a rat's ass about that rivalry.
We blew a huge chance yesterday and West Ham's players will be fired up as a result. Let's hope we won't come to regret it.
Also, have to disagree with everybody else: for me, it wasn't a penalty for Leeds. Tel played the ball and the Leeds player rushed onto him. It should have been an indirect freekick as Tel did play in 'a dangerous manner' but I don't think it qualified as a careless or reckless action. Anyway, what's done is done. There's no way of know how Chelsea are going to approach that game. Their fans hate us, but I don't think any of their player gives a rat's ass about that rivalry.
We blew a huge chance yesterday and West Ham's players will be fired up as a result. Let's hope we won't come to regret it.
Yeah after that penalty we really lost it for 10 minutes, couldn't keep the ball on the ground and didn't really recover until Maddison came on. I wonder if we might consider starting him next week and seeing if he can do 45 - 60 minutes - would give us so much more control and balance going forwards. However brick we are there's no way we'd be where we are if he'd been fit for most of the season.
I don't think it's was a mistake....as it couldn't conclusively be proven the defender hadn't touched it.
Likewise flip it round and Gilet had given it ....it couldn't conclusively be proven he had touched it, so the pen would have stood.
So technically it couldn't be a mistake as the ref would be right no matter what decision he gave
I think the rule that you get a slight touch on the ball needs to be reviewed again, I don't actually know what the law says but if it's such a slight touch that the ball doesn't deviate direction then they should be given as a penalty but it's still going to be subjective on what is a meaningful touch of the ball VS a graze.
thfcsteff
Ricky Villa
I think last night's ref and VAR crew were absolutely under pressure because of what happened between Arse and West Ham.
yiddo37
Teemu Tainio
Did a lot of 'nearly' stuff and one good move for the Richarlison chance. Gave the ball away numerous times. Still, one of his better games.
stratnumberone
Luke Young
I am struggling to see the touch on the ball and Maddison certainly is still in control of the ball when he is taken out. For me it’s a pen. Furthermore - and many might consider this an irrelevant statement - I am utterly convinced that if this happened to a number of other sides (we all know who they are) then it either gets given in real time or VAR intervenes.
I thought we had periods where we were very good and in control of the game. However, up front we are simply dire. There’s no threat whatsoever from the front three and the only way we are scoring goals is from excellent strikes (recently Simons, Gallagher and Tel last night). We simply don’t score enough ‘regular’ type goals.
After we scored I don’t know what happened. As soon as Leeds applied a little pressure I thought that we fell apart. We couldn’t pass, tackle or do any of the other basics. That was very worrying to see because so far under RDZ I think we’ve largely avoided such calamitous play. Put another way, we’ve looked obvious relegation fodder all season; since RDZ arrived we’ve shown steady improvement and looked more like a lower mid-table side. Just think, if we’d picked up an average of 8 points per 5 games we’d be on around 55-58 points now…
Prior to last night, We’ve seen Tel’s staggering lack of footballing IQ in defensive positions several times. Then he got away with the cross in the first half. I thought maybe he’d have learned from that, that sometimes you just have to get rid and that you never mess about in your own box. Sadly not. I cannot comprehend what he was thinking with that attempted overhead. I also cannot comprehend why it took so long to award it.
All in all, we yet again found an opportunity to shoot ourselves in the foot. However, it is somehow still in our hands. Now I look to City and Saudi Sportswashing Machine to hopefully give Chelsea and Wham sound beatings next weekend.
Championship football is still very much on the cards for next season, though.
I thought we had periods where we were very good and in control of the game. However, up front we are simply dire. There’s no threat whatsoever from the front three and the only way we are scoring goals is from excellent strikes (recently Simons, Gallagher and Tel last night). We simply don’t score enough ‘regular’ type goals.
After we scored I don’t know what happened. As soon as Leeds applied a little pressure I thought that we fell apart. We couldn’t pass, tackle or do any of the other basics. That was very worrying to see because so far under RDZ I think we’ve largely avoided such calamitous play. Put another way, we’ve looked obvious relegation fodder all season; since RDZ arrived we’ve shown steady improvement and looked more like a lower mid-table side. Just think, if we’d picked up an average of 8 points per 5 games we’d be on around 55-58 points now…
Prior to last night, We’ve seen Tel’s staggering lack of footballing IQ in defensive positions several times. Then he got away with the cross in the first half. I thought maybe he’d have learned from that, that sometimes you just have to get rid and that you never mess about in your own box. Sadly not. I cannot comprehend what he was thinking with that attempted overhead. I also cannot comprehend why it took so long to award it.
All in all, we yet again found an opportunity to shoot ourselves in the foot. However, it is somehow still in our hands. Now I look to City and Saudi Sportswashing Machine to hopefully give Chelsea and Wham sound beatings next weekend.
Championship football is still very much on the cards for next season, though.
SirPercyHotspur
Luke Young
Dissapointing again to drop points at home after leading just like the Brighton game , have not watched the penalty incidents but trying to do what Tel did in your own box is insane and how did linesman and ref both not see it as a foul.
On to the next matches , I don't believe Saudi Sportswashing Machine will be on the beach against Hammers just like Leeds they will try to win, it's their last home match of the season and who knows what win bonuses they are on.
Our record against Chelsea is appalling if we get a draw that would be a result as long as Hammers don't win,
On to the next matches , I don't believe Saudi Sportswashing Machine will be on the beach against Hammers just like Leeds they will try to win, it's their last home match of the season and who knows what win bonuses they are on.
Our record against Chelsea is appalling if we get a draw that would be a result as long as Hammers don't win,
I agree, the rule really should change moving forwards as the touch was so slight that Maddison would still have been in control of the ball if he hadn't been taken out. The defender needs to win the tackle (eg taking possession away from the attacker) for it not to be a foul imv - the rule is the rule, so can't really complain if it states defender getting a touch = no foul but moving forwards I'd like to see that change
DeanoAustin
Jack Jull
I wouldn't. There is enough lads throwing themselves down as it is without giving them another scenario where they can scam a penalty.
Lost Mango
Niko Kranjcar
It doesn't change the scam though. It is still referee's interpretation. Has the challenge removed possession by touch followed by has the challenge prevented the attacking player from continuing the attack?
If the touch is enough to move the ball away from the attacker and the tackle is a reasonable force then no penalty. If the touch is lighter than a hair and the player is floored then the challenge is wrong and it should be a penalty.
Still subjective but no different from today
If the touch is enough to move the ball away from the attacker and the tackle is a reasonable force then no penalty. If the touch is lighter than a hair and the player is floored then the challenge is wrong and it should be a penalty.
Still subjective but no different from today
I don't think re-defining what constitutes winning a tackle in the way described would change anything there - if the defender wins possession it doesn't matter either way
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Just another point to add on which way this is going to go - for me, despite what a few people have said on here about our rivals for the drop, West Ham and ourselves are two, at best under-performing, at worst, poor teams. The thing - notwithstanding the excruciating officiating! - that ultimately is going to separate us is who can keep their heads. It was clear to me that we couldn't keep ours yesterday.
How the teams' mental state is managed over the coming days is going to be key. Does someone ostensibly calmer like Nuno have the edge, keeping players more level-headed, or someone more motivational like RDZ that will hopefully fire us up? It's quite fascinating to me.
It's really going to be in the small margins, psychologically. I can see West Ham being completely pumped up by last night's result, but can they translate that into a win that would heap pressure on us? Who knows?! The pressure on the referees is going to be even more intense than the last 48 hours. We really need to come out swinging and aggressively use our comms team to be planting stories about the lack of a single penalty we've received this season to heap pressure on the refs.
How the teams' mental state is managed over the coming days is going to be key. Does someone ostensibly calmer like Nuno have the edge, keeping players more level-headed, or someone more motivational like RDZ that will hopefully fire us up? It's quite fascinating to me.
It's really going to be in the small margins, psychologically. I can see West Ham being completely pumped up by last night's result, but can they translate that into a win that would heap pressure on us? Who knows?! The pressure on the referees is going to be even more intense than the last 48 hours. We really need to come out swinging and aggressively use our comms team to be planting stories about the lack of a single penalty we've received this season to heap pressure on the refs.
WillWeEverBeGoodAgain
Johnny nice-tits
Been mentioned lots across the UK media today
ricky2tricky4city
Jimmy Cantrell
ricky2tricky4city
Jimmy Cantrell
This is a good point.
It was an easy action to observe (a high kick and two players on their own) and I'm guessing due to where it occurred on the pitch the ref and linesman would be looking in at it from different but favourable angles.
So this then leads to 'clear and obvious' and whether VAR needs to, or even is allowed to intervene? (ie the onfield refs have seen everything they need to)
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ricky2tricky4city
Jimmy Cantrell
I have to say after some confidence building displays and the last two victories I was surprised how for periods last night we returned to type in as much as sinking into our shell and looking a bit clueless in how to deal with the situation.
Some of the fluidity I'd been witnessing had evaporated. No-one really knowing where each other was, or was going to be. Stopping and taking two/three different looks before having any idea where to play the ball next. Looking disjointed again. Bad choices/decision making.
I'm not sure if it's the weight of playing at home (and never winning) ?
I think I'd be quite happy if BOTH our final games were away tbh.
Yiddo.1882
Jamie Clapham
It was a clear penalty in my eyes. There was no evidence of the ball moving and even if there had been a touch it was negligible at best. The quote from Sky’s article by Howard Webb about a penalty awarded to Brighton against Arsenal last year pretty much sums up my thoughts on last night’s incident.
“Justifying the decision of a penalty, PGMO chief Howard Webb argued that getting a touch on the ball does not negate a penalty, especially when a follow through is concerned.
That touch on the ball doesn't negate the possible award of a penalty," said Webb about the Saliba incident.
We've seen other examples where the ball may touch a player but there's still heavy contact on the follow through and it's a penalty."
www.skysports.com
“Justifying the decision of a penalty, PGMO chief Howard Webb argued that getting a touch on the ball does not negate a penalty, especially when a follow through is concerned.
That touch on the ball doesn't negate the possible award of a penalty," said Webb about the Saliba incident.
We've seen other examples where the ball may touch a player but there's still heavy contact on the follow through and it's a penalty."
James Maddison penalty incident: Should Spurs have been given 103rd-minute penalty for challenge by Leeds striker Lukas Nmecha?
Tottenham were denied a late penalty by VAR in their 1-1 draw vs Leeds; James Maddison was felled by Lukas Nmecha but referee Jarred Gillett and VAR felt the Leeds striker got the ball; Roberto De Zerbi said the official wasnt calm as Spurs relegation fears carry on
Completely agree on that last point! There's seems to be such a weight on us at home and we can't seem to shake it. I think Everton is going to be very uncomfortable if things don't resolve themselves before then.
It was so noticeable how many (unnecessary?) extra touches the players were taking, which betrays a lack of coincidence and classic over-thinking of things.
GHod, this is unbearable.
SpurMeUp
Erik Thorstvedt
The VAR on-pitch review is a nonsense. Scrap it.
Either there's an obvious mistake or let the onfield decision stand.
In effect it becomes a way for more marginal decisions to be given by VAR because the refs just follow the VAR premise of questioning it.
Neither the Madison or Tel pens should have been given.
Either there's an obvious mistake or let the onfield decision stand.
In effect it becomes a way for more marginal decisions to be given by VAR because the refs just follow the VAR premise of questioning it.
Neither the Madison or Tel pens should have been given.