OMT *** Tottenham Hotspur v Brentford FC ***

[Robspur12]

Absolutely, he's suffering from the same issues as the previous manager. Lots of injuries, combined with a few players that he doesn't want.

If that 90 minutes vs Brentford was out of the ordinary then he'd of course be given more room to breathe. But it's the norm. That is how he wants us to play.

The big difference is, TF is naturally more cautious than Ange and is employing a "don't lose first" strategy. Given the number of losses last season, that seems sensible. But it needs to change as those players come back.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

I know it shouldn't surprise me but it does when I see how we should be playing better and beat this team and that team in our up coming fixtures. Nothing is a give me in PL games there are possibly 2/3 teams who I'm surprised to see lose the rest are unpredictable and on any given day can win.
After reading post on here we should be amazed we dont lose every game as virtually ever player we've used are "not good enough" .

Our stocks dwindling quality wise, whilst others are seeing fruits of their labour of making joint up decisions transfer wise. I have posted the agg league tables from the last 5 years on here, its no shock that Brighton, Brentford and Palace are doing so well with what they have, because they have been doing it consistently now for a while

Its 100% a squad game in this league and we have arguments about playing a RB at LB and how Solanke is not a miss as a Striker.

 

[Muttley]

Absolutely, he's suffering from the same issues as the previous manager. Lots of injuries, combined with a few players that he doesn't want.

If that 90 minutes vs Brentford was out of the ordinary then he'd of course be given more room to breathe. But it's the norm. That is how he wants us to play.

I can't say you're right or wrong on this one but 7 years of data at Brentford would suggest that is not the end game for Frank at Spurs.

I just feel it's a managerial process that starts with a laser focus on defending first. That's because we've just had 3 seasons of conceding over 60 goals. It's a disease that needs curing. What we will then see is offensive breakthroughs moving forwards as more parts of Fank's strategy click into place.

I said this about Ange but we need to see where Frank can plateau before we make serious judgment. We're nowhere near finding out with Frank. Way too early. We do need to trust the process though.

 

[tommysvr]

The big difference is, TF is naturally more cautious than Ange and is employing a "don't lose first" strategy. Given the number of losses last season, that seems sensible. But it needs to change as those players come back.

And that's exactly why I didn't want him. I don't want to "not lose." I want to win. I want to fail whilst at the very least trying. We're going to fail no matter what. There's too few trophies and moments in the game. So why fail with football this boring? Why not have even just a little bit of ambition?

 

[Robspur12]

And that's exactly why I didn't want him. I don't want to "not lose." I want to win. I want to fail whilst at the very least trying. We're going to fail no matter what. There's too few trophies and moments in the game. So why fail with football this boring? Why not have even just a little bit of ambition?

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. The most successful teams over the years are the ones who are consistently good in the League. That is where we need to be and no doubt that is the brief given to TF at the start.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I can't say you're right or wrong on this one but 7 years of data at Brentford would suggest that is not the end game for Frank at Spurs.

I just feel it's a managerial process that starts with a laser focus on defending first. That's because we've just had 3 seasons of conceding over 60 goals. It's a disease that needs curing. What we will then see is offensive breakthroughs moving forwards as more parts of Fank's strategy click into place.

I said this about Ange but we need to see where Frank can plateau before we make serious judgment. We're nowhere near finding out with Frank. Way too early. We do need to trust the process though.

Managers dont need to worry how much talent and money they have it's time they dont get.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Brentford at home have beaten Utd Liverpool, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Villa & drawn with Chelsea.

And when we do beat Leeds away "it's only Leeds" even though they have beat Chelsea and Palace at home and drew with Liverpool home and away.

I am sometimes really unsure, in fact I am unsure that people really do have an great understanding of where we are as a club (I exclude @tommysvr because he has)

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

And that's exactly why I didn't want him. I don't want to "not lose." I want to win. I want to fail whilst at the very least trying. We're going to fail no matter what. There's too few trophies and moments in the game. So why fail with football this boring? Why not have even just a little bit of ambition?

Totally agree but I find football has become robotic. The system is everything, the focus of the game is not to lose, scoring goals has become a frustrating interval as we wait to know if they count.
I cant think of a team in PL or player I'd tuning to watch, some are just better organised than others and most games aren't as exciting or surprising as "The Great British Bake Off"

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Totally agree but I find football has become robotic. The system is everything, the focus of the game is not to lose, scoring goals has become a frustrating interval as we wait to know if they count.
I cant think of a team in PL or player I'd tuning to watch, some are just better organised than others and most games aren't as exciting or surprising as "The Great British Bake Off"

The whole leagues become largely unwatchable. I forced myself the past week like the scene in Clockwork Orange.

 

[tommysvr]

Totally agree but I find football has become robotic. The system is everything, the focus of the game is not to lose, scoring goals has become a frustrating interval as we wait to know if they count.
I cant think of a team in PL or player I'd tuning to watch, some are just better organised than others and most games aren't as exciting or surprising as "The Great British Bake Off"

I agree a lot of the personality is gone, but I still enjoy watching it. Perhaps that's because I also watch the J.League and the A-League every week, so the drama, atmosphere etc that you get in the Premier League is still enjoyable. And the idea that you genuinely don't know who's going to win any given match is great.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I agree a lot of the personality is gone, but I still enjoy watching it. Perhaps that's because I also watch the J.League and the A-League every week, so the drama, atmosphere etc that you get in the Premier League is still enjoyable. And the idea that you genuinely don't know who's going to win any given match is great.

Out of interest, how do the J and A-leagues compare with the PL in terms of predictability?

 

[tommysvr]

Out of interest, how do the J and A-leagues compare with the PL in terms of predictability?

The A-League is pretty all over the place but there's only 12 teams so it's boring watching the same games so often (3 games vs each team).

The J.League is fantastic but there's a clear difference in the strong and the weak teams. The football is also extremely technical and can be pretty cold at times. Not the same passion or drama imo.

 

[Baleforce]

Brentford at home have beaten Utd Liverpool, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Villa & drawn with Chelsea.

And when we do beat Leeds away "it's only Leeds" even though they have beat Chelsea and Palace at home and drew with Liverpool home and away.

I am sometimes really unsure, in fact I am unsure that people really do have an great understanding of where we are as a club (I exclude @tommysvr because he has)

Or where the PL is, nobody plays champagne football anymore, its now a game of attrition and mistake avoidance.

 

[DubSpur]

That eating with you must be an experience!


Sounds like you’re ready for a nice breakfast!!


Here’s my appx take on that game:

1. go there and setup for more expansive football and we probably have less than 1 in 10 chance to win it.

There is a lack of respect to Brentford. Hard to travel there and not get beaten.

2. Setup as Frank did, and our XG was fractionally in our favour. So call it 6 out of 10 times we’d win it.

We were in that game to the end. Finished the stronger team and had chances to nick all three points at the end.

Were we the perfect polished outfit? Of course not! But wtf are people expecting with a very limited attacking squad playing only a feed before. A team with clear issues and holes, missing our first choice 3 attackers from last season. Under the circumstances we did amazing.

We are developing a foundation. Something to be able to play better from.

You're acting like this is just a one off. If it was then I'd think everyone would be more accepting, but it's the same style of football and lack of bravery for the whole season.

The xG was basically the same for both team, some have Brentford slightly ahead, others us. 9 times out of 10 it's a draw. If we'd been braver on the ball and got it forward when we had the chances instead of turning back then our xG will most likely be higher.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Or where the PL is, nobody plays champagne football anymore, its now a game of attrition and mistake avoidance.

This, be interesting what the next manager does to counter it because Frank is going to lose his job, not because of results but style, if some get their way. So the new manager has to approach style, its either going to go fabulously well OR we will be fodder

 

[DubSpur]

Just doesn’t ring true. It’s driven by a pre-existing narrative in your head.

Odobert is cooked. Gave everything fist half and was brilliant (he’s a great sub some issues with stamina to deliver at that level all game). So Frank needs to get him off - posted the same in this thread before the sub.

Then we setup in a very attacking way to try and win the game - Kudus and Richi thru the middle, Tel left and Mauni right. You’re complaining that Franknisnt attacking enough or going for it. But that was brave. There was immensely frustrating moments when Richi needs to find a 5 yard pass and both Kudus and Muani are free to sprint at goal.

Having those players on the pitch doesn't mean Frank is being brave. Being brave would see the team looking to get the ball to them instead of playing the safe ball back to defenders which we constantly did.

 

[Baleforce]

This, be interesting what the next manager does to counter it because Frank is going to lose his job, not because of results but style, if some get their way. So the new manager has to approach style, its either going to go fabulously well OR we will be fodder

If only a club had tried that experiment recently, of not trying to stop the opposition, of only thinking about football in one direction, I wonder where they would finish in the league...

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I agree a lot of the personality is gone, but I still enjoy watching it. Perhaps that's because I also watch the J.League and the A-League every week, so the drama, atmosphere etc that you get in the Premier League is still enjoyable. And the idea that you genuinely don't know who's going to win any given match is great.

Back in the dark ages we had a syndicate that did the football pools at work and did the Aussie games in the summer months until we had a bloke join our company who had played for one of the teams, he couldn't get in our firms team who played Sunday mornings. I expect that was before the current set up.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Back in the dark ages we had a syndicate that did the football pools at work and did the Aussie games in the summer months until we had a bloke join our company who had played for one of the teams, he couldn't get in our firms team who played Sunday mornings. I expect that was before the current set up.

I had a few mates who played out in Aus and some Uni sides in the US, one was ex West Ham youth, broke leg, went to Birmingham Alabama as a CB, was miles ahead with one leg, was so funny, he got offered a scholarship and my other mate got offered one despite being shoite to sweeten the deal

 

[Finney Is Back]

Of our upcoming 5-10 games which games should we be able to expect more expansive football than this? Sunderland at home? Burnley away?

All of them, as it is impossible to be any less expansive.