OMT *** Tottenham Hotspur v Brentford FC ***

[harr1984]

I understand the football was not great yesterday. But we had the following attack minded players unavailable
Maddison
Solanke
Deki
Xavi
Bergvall
Sarr
We have Kolo Muani who just keeps trying to play the same flick every game without success.
And Brendan Johnson has pretty much left
I think the strategy of not losing at a difficult away ground was correct.
As for patterns of play? Arsenal have a better squad of players with a manager who has been there 6 years or more and YET their most effective pattern of play to get results is from set pieces!

Liverpool are on a poor run under a Championship winning manager and City? They drew 0-0 too.

We really do need patience with this manager and team. I'm going on Sunday to cheer the team on. I think we will draw but given the number of absentees I'm not sure what patterns of play the manager is supposed to have already established?

And this response would be fine if it was a performance/plan taken in isolation but its not. He's had Madders/Kulu/Solanke missing all season so by now you'd hope he had a plan around that, he's had the others you mentioned available and playing in games and it's been the same negative abject performances.

But the real acid test is the home games, that is where the issues really lie because we are picking up good points away but with the way we play it is far more difficult to do so at home and so it has proved so far. I hope you enjoy the game, and the rest of the fans get behind the team like you .....

 

[braineclipse]

The lack of freedom to play is coming from the manager. It is massively evident when Bentancur gets the ball with a forward pass available but instead slows it down and passes to the full back of centre back. Bentancur is a player who is able to spot and play foward passes between the lines, it is pretty clear to me that the manager is coaching those passes not being made.

Same with off the ball movement, particularly from midfield.

Bentancur is also very much a player capable of making those runs and even be useful on the ball if he then gets the ball.

 

[braineclipse]

That eating with you must be an experience!


Sounds like you’re ready for a nice breakfast!!


Here’s my appx take on that game:

1. go there and setup for more expansive football and we probably have less than 1 in 10 chance to win it.

There is a lack of respect to Brentford. Hard to travel there and not get beaten.

2. Setup as Frank did, and our XG was fractionally in our favour. So call it 6 out of 10 times we’d win it.

We were in that game to the end. Finished the stronger team and had chances to nick all three points at the end.

Were we the perfect polished outfit? Of course not! But wtf are people expecting with a very limited attacking squad playing only a feed before. A team with clear issues and holes, missing our first choice 3 attackers from last season. Under the circumstances we did amazing.

We are developing a foundation. Something to be able to play better from.

Of our upcoming 5-10 games which games should we be able to expect more expansive football than this? Sunderland at home? Burnley away?

 

[glorygloryeze]

When I think more about the game I still think the following

1) a complete lack of consideration from some about the impact of missing players, We were without Udogie, Bergval, Sarr, Xavi, Kulu, Madds, Johnson, Solanke. I could. build a case for every single one of them either starting or coming off the bench in this fixture, except Johnson. As for Johnson, I'm proud of my club for making a brave decision and taking the short term pain to get the next guy in.

2) The defensive patterns is a joy to watch for me. These guys are just pivoting into a 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 at ease in this phase of the season. So much hard work has been done that we can end up with different players in different positions of the 4-4-2 e.g. Gray becoming the 9 and shutting down the centre halves. Sometimes Gray was in there with Palhinha whilst Bents had become the right midfielder and Kudus was higher up. Some great work by Frank to build this defensive strategy out for another clean sheet.

3) Moving to the next level and getting a better offensive strategy is Frank's next focus. We've said all season that can't work with a double pivot of Pal / Bents. That was abundantly clear yesterday. It won't work with Richi as a 9 either. He can't hold the ball up and isn't winning fouls. There's no pace their either to scare the opposition. Change just a couple of these things and we will start to see a difference. Then get some player movement off the ball and I think things will look a lot different.

4) The last thing is the left channel. Ours just doesn't work. When they showed on screen how effective Rico Henry's left side was for Brentford yesterday, it was very telling that we haven't had that all season. Someone said earlier about Kudus being doubled up and being less effective. That wasn't the case yesterday. We just got swept away by theirs, and Kudus needed to get his head down and stop it. He didn't until the second half. Porro, on the other hand, was amazing sticking to the task and somehow keeping them at bay. We definitely need a leftie coming into the club this window in either the full-back or left-wing positions. We need a major signing there.

I have to say,i was impressed with the defence and defensive effort yesterday.

 

[braineclipse]

And this response would be fine if it was a performance/plan taken in isolation but its not. He's had Madders/Kulu/Solanke missing all season so by now you'd hope he had a plan around that, he's had the others you mentioned available and playing in games and it's been the same negative abject performances.

But the real acid test is the home games, that is where the issues really lie because we are picking up good points away but with the way we play it is far more difficult to do so at home and so it has proved so far. I hope you enjoy the game, and the rest of the fans get behind the team like you .....

Agreed. A performance like this away from home in isolation is fine. But the larger pattern....

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

I understand the football was not great yesterday. But we had the following attack minded players unavailable
Maddison
Solanke
Deki
Xavi
Bergvall
Sarr
We have Kolo Muani who just keeps trying to play the same flick every game without success.
And Brendan Johnson has pretty much left
I think the strategy of not losing at a difficult away ground was correct.
As for patterns of play? Arsenal have a better squad of players with a manager who has been there 6 years or more and YET their most effective pattern of play to get results is from set pieces!

Liverpool are on a poor run under a Championship winning manager and City? They drew 0-0 too.

We really do need patience with this manager and team. I'm going on Sunday to cheer the team on. I think we will draw but given the number of absentees I'm not sure what patterns of play the manager is supposed to have already established?

I like to bathe in custard

 

[Robspur12]

And this response would be fine if it was a performance/plan taken in isolation but its not. He's had Madders/Kulu/Solanke missing all season so by now you'd hope he had a plan around that, he's had the others you mentioned available and playing in games and it's been the same negative abject performances.

But the real acid test is the home games, that is where the issues really lie because we are picking up good points away but with the way we play it is far more difficult to do so at home and so it has proved so far. I hope you enjoy the game, and the rest of the fans get behind the team like you .....

There is no doubt he is trying to get us to be solid first and work from there. It's the " first don't lose games" strategy. Seeing as we lost 22 games last season and had a horrendous injury list I have no problems with that for now.

As you know, building from the back is what all the great teams do. It's what Mikel Arteta has done at Arsenal, Klopp didn't start winning trophies at Liverpool until he had sorted out his back line. Liverpool are now "struggling" relative to last season because they are not defending well.

If TF's teams are still relentlessly negative as players return then I will have a problem with him. But I am far from that stage now. And some of the criticism aimed at the manager is way ott.

 

[Legohamster]

Solanke has turned into R9 in his absence

I'm not sure he's going improve much.

We need an overhaul of the front line whoever the manager is

 

[Robspur12]

Agreed. A performance like this away from home in isolation is fine. But the larger pattern....

There will not be any larger pattern yet imho. Not until we get a fully functional attack. He's not a magician. I think the strategy of getting us to be solid and not lose games is correct FOR NOW.

 

[Robspur12]

Of our upcoming 5-10 games which games should we be able to expect more expansive football than this? Sunderland at home? Burnley away?

Possibly Burnley away if we have the players who are currently missing returning. Sunderland, I think will be another "don't lose" game.

 

[harr1984]

There is no doubt he is trying to get us to be solid first and work from there. It's the " first don't lose games" strategy. Seeing as we lost 22 games last season and had a horrendous injury list I have no problems with that for now.

As you know, building from the back is what all the great teams do. It's what Mikel Arteta has done at Arsenal, Klopp didn't start winning trophies at Liverpool until he had sorted out his back line. Liverpool are now "struggling" relative to last season because they are not defending well.

If TF's teams are still relentlessly negative as players return then I will have a problem with him. But I am far from that stage now. And some of the criticism aimed at the manager is way ott.

I don't mind the getting us solid part (although since our honeymoon period we have't even been that - hopefully we will now return to this). But it is inexcusable the way our players are consistently not looking forward when they receive the ball, trying to be defensively solid doesn't mean we have to behave like this in possession of the ball - that is in line with the overall intent of how Frank has constantly set us up and it just won't be accepted here.

I think people are going to be a little disappointed if they are expecting any real significant shift when Kulu and Solanke return but it can only be a positive those two coming back so looking forward to it. I'm hoping second half of the season to see some more positive play, if we at least try and look forward and be a little more progressive fans will be more understanding and sympathetic about the players at his disposal when it doesn't work....

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Solanke has turned into R9 in his absence

I'm not sure he's going improve much.

We need an overhaul of the front line whoever the manager is

He was real handy last season when he played and he is a better player than we have in Richy. We also spent £55 on him just over a year ago, so its ridiculous to make suggestions like he is not a key factor in the current squad.

I would take his hard work from last season and put it in this side and guarantee it improves us

We need better long term, not least because he is not available, but in the context of who we are now, he is a huge miss

 

[tommysvr]

I understand the football was not great yesterday. But we had the following attack minded players unavailable
Maddison
Solanke
Deki
Xavi
Bergvall
Sarr
We have Kolo Muani who just keeps trying to play the same flick every game without success.
And Brendan Johnson has pretty much left
I think the strategy of not losing at a difficult away ground was correct.
As for patterns of play? Arsenal have a better squad of players with a manager who has been there 6 years or more and YET their most effective pattern of play to get results is from set pieces!

Liverpool are on a poor run under a Championship winning manager and City? They drew 0-0 too.

We really do need patience with this manager and team. I'm going on Sunday to cheer the team on. I think we will draw but given the number of absentees I'm not sure what patterns of play the manager is supposed to have already established?

We looked no better when Xavi, Bergvall and Sarr were available. And it's a bit ridiculous to include Brennan Johnson in that list. He's been frozen out by the manager.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

We looked no better when Xavi, Bergvall and Sarr were available. And it's a bit ridiculous to include Brennan Johnson in that list. He's been frozen out by the manager.

We look miles better with Xavi and Bergvall in the side, results with Xavi in the side are much more positive than without him.

 

[tommysvr]

We look miles better with Xavi and Bergvall in the side, results prove it

We had a game or two were we looked better, sure. But our real horror show performances:

Wolves 1-1: both started
Bodo 2-2: Bergvall started, Xavi subbed on
Monaco 0-0: Bergvall started, Xavi subbed on
Chelsea 0-1: Bergvall started, Xavi subbed on
Arsenal 1-4: Xavi subbed on, Bergvall benched
Fulham 1-2: Bergvall started, Xavi subbed on
Forest 0-3: Xavi started, Bergvall subbed on

 

[Muttley]

We looked no better when Xavi, Bergvall and Sarr were available. And it's a bit ridiculous to include Brennan Johnson in that list. He's been frozen out by the manager.

Football is a squad game nowadays. We used 13 players yesterday. We only had one option for the 3 midfielders and that was the young kid, Olusesi. I can't really speak for him as I don't know how much he's progressed from last season. It's clear though that Bergval and Sarr would have been on that pitch at some point if available.

You don't seem to be acknowledging how difficult it was for our manager to navigate the game with the player choices he had, especially keeping the midfield fresh and intense.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

We had a game or two were we looked better, sure. But our real horror show performances:

Wolves 1-1: both started
Bodo 2-2: Bergvall started, Xavi subbed on
Monaco 0-0: Bergvall started, Xavi subbed on
Chelsea 0-1: Bergvall started, Xavi subbed on
Arsenal 1-4: Xavi subbed on, Bergvall benched
Fulham 1-2: Bergvall started, Xavi subbed on
Forest 0-3: Xavi started, Bergvall subbed on

Maybe that plays to my arguments elsewhere to play them together because there are certainly others who are more prominent in those horror performances than those two players.

 

[Baleforce]

I'm not going to use the injury list as an excuse for Frank, I didn't allow it for Ange either, not everyone is as consistent as I am on that issue though.

Not that I think excuses are needed, Frank has made a very productive start to his time here, thats two fully deserved clean sheets on the bounce, 7 for the season already, which is more than we managed last year.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I know it shouldn't surprise me but it does when I see how we should be playing better and beat this team and that team in our up coming fixtures. Nothing is a give me in PL games there are possibly 2/3 teams who I'm surprised to see lose the rest are unpredictable and on any given day can win.
After reading post on here we should be amazed we dont lose every game as virtually ever player we've used are "not good enough" .

 

[tommysvr]

Football is a squad game nowadays. We used 13 players yesterday. We only had one option for the 3 midfielders and that was the young kid, Olusesi. I can't really speak for him as I don't know how much he's progressed from last season. It's clear though that Bergval and Sarr would have been on that pitch at some point if available.

You don't seem to be acknowledging how difficult it was for our manager to navigate the game with the player choices he had, especially keeping the midfield fresh and intense.

Absolutely, he's suffering from the same issues as the previous manager. Lots of injuries, combined with a few players that he doesn't want.

If that 90 minutes vs Brentford was out of the ordinary then he'd of course be given more room to breathe. But it's the norm. That is how he wants us to play.