*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Bournemouth ***

[DeanoAustin]

He should not have been roundly boo’d coming onto the pitch or boo’d every time he touched it or heavily boo’d when being taking off imo.

We have to remember the wider context with this guy. He was a good defender when we signed him so how is it that 6 years on, working in outstanding facilities he has become a poor defender? That surely is something he should be held accountable for. He struggles to control the ball these days. He came on against southampton iirc and got done immediately and in this action he did some weird spinning rolly polly in the air. I mean wtf? Its completely unacceptable what has happened to him and the management are to blame for continuing to pick him. Tanganga whilst not great himself is undoubtedly better than Sanchez and so is a couple of the kids in that position. Sanchez should have been banned from first team training long ago for the unacceptable regression in his footballing ability over the years with us. That’s how real life works for most people. You regress alarmingly, you are out.

My view on the booing was it should only have been light booing barely audible the next time he touched the ball after the error. So one occurrence of barely audible light booing. And then the same again when he is subbed, barely audible light booing.

That is fine imo on the back of what he has allowed to happen to himself and I’m sorry but I dont buy that what I proposed there (which seems to be different to what he experienced tbf) should invoke a devastating impact on his feelings. There is some horrendous things going on in this world, in its history and no doubt in the future. So let’s please get a grip and not overstate what went on yesterday to a multi million pound awful football player on a football pitch.

What will that booing accomplish?

If he’s still here and getting picked, that’s on management and the owners. Not the lad’s fault. On regression…football is littered with lads who show talent but don’t kick on because they hit their ceiling early. With Sanchez, he always looks to be in very good shape, has always behaved professionally and been available when required. He’s been a pro as long as he’s been here. That management has continued to keep him and pick him and that he hit a ceiling is not any reason to boo him.

All the other brick going on in the world doesn’t excuse our fans acting like spoilt entitled clams.

 

[Bishop]

Yes we do, let me tell you what is is -> 9th best income generated in world football

That's what differentiates us from Leicester, West Ham, Villa, Leeds, Everton, Brighton, basically anyone outside of top 4 and money dopers. Generating money is your path to success, When Leicester/Everton fall into administration and spends a decade+ in lower leagues (ala Leeds) would we say the same thing?

Brighton is the new whoever that goes all the way back to Charlton under Curbs, timing, some good investments, some luck and everyone suddenly thinks they have broken the code. No they haven't, they will sell their best players because their income isn't sustainable, the replacements may work once, even twice, but eventually the replacements won't be as good, a bad run will destroy confidence and they won't have the money to buy themselves out and in a couple of years they disappear into lower leagues and some starts talking about the next "smart" club

We have a system for sustained high level income. We do not have a system or model for success. They are two different things.

Something I notice with your general commentary on these things is you equate direct money with results too much. Its as much about HOW you use your funds and WHEN you use those funds as it is about about the total money available.

We do not have a model or system to best maximise the funding we do have. Not on a fleeting level and certainly not in a sustained manner.

The proof is in the pudding.

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[Bishop]

You keep going back to Leicester because they are the only example of a team that has managed to do that. 99% of trophies go to the top teams that have a sustained period at the top of the league.
Leicester will probably not win anything or get close to it in the next 20 years. It was not some master plan for them, they just got lucky.

I'm not referring back to Leicester it was yourself who brought them up. I was just replying. But sure Leicester probably won't win anything again for 20 years but the fact is they have already won the PL. That will never be taken away from them and no amount of mitigation on your part can change that. Also if in that 20 year wilderness we don't win anything as well, whose shoes would you rather have been in? The side that won the PL and has those memories or the side that occasionally finishes in the top 4 but doesn't actually achieve anything?

I hope with yet another DoF and modification to the club's modus operandi we actually can once again be a side of progression and maybe even win something (not my main concern to be clear). But we've been here before many times and I frankly just down believe the ownership understands what is necessary or knows how to successfully follow through on said strategy.

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[DubSpur]

I'm not referring back to Leicester it was yourself who brought them up. I was just replying. But sure Leicester probably won't win anything again for 20 years but the fact is they have already won the PL. That will never be taken away from them and no amount of mitigation on your part can change that. Also if in that 20 year wilderness we don't win anything as well, whose shoes would you rather have been in? The side that won the PL and has those memories or the side that occasionally finishes in the top 4 but doesn't actually achieve anything?

I hope with yet another DoF and modification to the club's modus operandi we actually can once again be a side of progression and maybe even win something (not my main concern to be clear). But we've been here before many times and I frankly just down believe the ownership understands what is necessary or knows how to successfully follow through on said strategy.

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No, your post I replied to was you referencing their FA cup and PL win. I'd rather have 20 years of enjoyable football (not that we have that at the moment) than those wins and then watch 20 years of crap.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I'm not referring back to Leicester it was yourself who brought them up. I was just replying. But sure Leicester probably won't win anything again for 20 years but the fact is they have already won the PL. That will never be taken away from them and no amount of mitigation on your part can change that. Also if in that 20 year wilderness we don't win anything as well, whose shoes would you rather have been in? The side that won the PL and has those memories or the side that occasionally finishes in the top 4 but doesn't actually achieve anything?

I hope with yet another DoF and modification to the club's modus operandi we actually can once again be a side of progression and maybe even win something (not my main concern to be clear). But we've been here before many times and I frankly just down believe the ownership understands what is necessary or knows how to successfully follow through on said strategy.

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Bringing in a DoF only works if there is also serious investment in the whole structure. Apparently Paratici was surprised when he came into Spurs that our structure was nothing like that of a big club. Paratici has already done some excellent work to start addressing that but it is mismanagement from the top that it got so bad.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We have a system for sustained high level income. We do not have a system or model for success. They are two different things.

Something I notice with your general commentary on these things is you equate direct money with results too much. Its as much about HOW you use your funds and WHEN you use those funds as it is about about the total money available.

We do not have a model or system to best maximise the funding we do have. Not on a fleeting level and certainly not in a sustained manner.

The proof is in the pudding.

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100% right
If we have money but buy brick we will always have issues
We have to buy better
We also have to use our youth better (conte using players as traffic cones FFS)
We need a football philosophy which means we can focus on the right signings and it needs to be shared so the fans can understand and buy into it
Until that happens we are tinkling in the wind

 

[Finney Is Back]

No, your post I replied to was you referencing their FA cup and PL win. I'd rather have 20 years of enjoyable football (not that we have that at the moment) than those wins and then watch 20 years of crap.

So you’d rather be Leicester then (seeing as how we haven’t hit your first objective)?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Bringing in a DoF only works if there is also serious investment in the whole structure. Apparently Paratici was surprised when he came into Spurs that our structure was nothing like that of a big club. Paratici has already done some excellent work to start addressing that but it is mismanagement from the top that it got so bad.

And good management to realise and bring him in?
I think Steinson will take over paraticis role and follow on from what he has started
It’s weird that the old what’s in football thinks it’s complicated and convoluted yet the more successful clubs now (without the old heads in charge) all have invested heavily in their football structure

 

[Bishop]

No, your post I replied to was you referencing their FA cup and PL win. I'd rather have 20 years of enjoyable football (not that we have that at the moment) than those wins and then watch 20 years of crap.

Who is to say they'd play crap football for 20 years? Playing in a lower league can be entertaining in its own right. There are plenty of relatively attractive playing sides in the Championship.

Also who is to say we'd be playing attractive football ourselves in the meantime? We certainly haven't for the last 5 years. [emoji28][emoji31]

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[Finney Is Back]

100% right
If we have money but buy brick we will always have issues
We have to buy better
We also have to use our youth better (conte using players as traffic cones FFS)
We need a football philosophy which means we can focus on the right signings and it needs to be shared so the fans can understand and buy into it
Until that happens we are tinkling in the wind

We’re starting to get that together with Paratici at least. Personally I think it is inexcusable that this essential part of a football club was neglected with people and funds for so long, but at least it is being addressed (or I guess ‘was’ up until Paratici’s FIFA ruling and is now a little up in the air).

 

[Finney Is Back]

And good management to realise and bring him in?
I think Steinson will take over paraticis role and follow on from what he has started
It’s weird that the old what’s in football thinks it’s complicated and convoluted yet the more successful clubs now (without the old heads in charge) all have invested heavily in their football structure

I was a little worried by Pleat’s comment the other week on a podcast questioning our new structure and the roles somewhat, especially as I know that he has Levy’s ear.
As a related aside here, Pleat being our full time English lower league chief scout would be a great appointment.

 

[DubSpur]

I was a little worried by Pleat’s comment the other week on a podcast questioning our new structure and the roles somewhat, especially as I know that he has Levy’s ear.
As a related aside here, Pleat being our full time English lower league chief scout would be a great appointment.

Why be worried about that? If Pleat has Levy's ear then he would already know about the changes being made. Levy isn't going to change the new structure after a week just because of what Pleat says.
There has been a lengthy review of the football side and this is the structure that he has decided on. From the outside, it looks like a big improvement and seems to be taking some lessons from how City does things.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I was a little worried by Pleat’s comment the other week on a podcast questioning our new structure and the roles somewhat, especially as I know that he has Levy’s ear.
As a related aside here, Pleat being our full time English lower league chief scout would be a great appointment.

Yep
It was him I was referring too on the spurs show pod

 

[Grays_1890]

It depends on what you think a club should be achieving. If you deem finishing in the PL and in the European places the height of success then yes no doubt Spurs have done that better than Leicester.

However if you prize actual success then you'd have to say a small club like Leicester who for many years were a lower league side coming up and winning both the League and the FA Cup on a period where we have won zilch is more impressive.

Sure they might get relegated but so have we at times. Going down in 77 didn't negate the UEFA Cup win in 72. We still had those wins, we still had that success.

I really do feel like there's a loser justification that hasn't taken hold. We explain away actually winning things because well...we don't. I find it hard to believe that if we had won the league in 2016 and then finished outside the top 4 every season we would want to trade that title for top 4 finishes. [emoji848]

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It's not a losers mentality, ironically another Spurs buzz word, it's called balance. There is an element of you can't mention the failures of anyone else without it being reverted back to Spurs and constant digs about the club, it just gets tiring to read TBH. This forums becoming a minefield to read because even specific topics in general get twisted back towards Spurs and our failings or how Poch wasn't a success....I would argue its not a so called loses mentality to look back fondly at Poch I would say people are now overly negative about the club and its spread and distorted the facts and feeling of his time here.

And I stick to my point, yes we have had it bad at times, yes I wanna win more, but there are many fans that love to fan the flames, twist the truths and won't admit that old bats they used to hit the club with were wrong and ultimately increase the bad feeling about the club, I've read it, watched it and heard....

It's all linked, Sanchez is a weapon used to hate because in part the issues fans have with the board, people will never acknowledge his good games and he even was blamed for another players mistake, that player ironically demanded as a signing because it showed ambition so no doubt its overly selective views.

As I've said, the net and terraces are toxic with it...I have no issue with people wanting more but don't lie or be abusive to churn and add to agendas that make it an even worse experience than it already presents itself yo be.



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[Bishop]

It's not a losers mentality, ironically another Spurs buzz word, it's called balance. There is an element of you can't mention the failures of anyone else without it being reverted back to Spurs and constant digs about the club, it just gets tiring to read TBH. This forums becoming a minefield to read because even specific topics in general get twisted back towards Spurs and our failings or how Poch wasn't a success....I would argue its not a so called loses mentality to look back fondly at Poch I would say people are now overly negative about the club and its spread and distorted the facts and feeling of his time here.

And I stick to my point, yes we have had it bad at times, yes I wanna win more, but there are many fans that love to fan the flames, twist the truths and won't admit that old bats they used to hit the club with were wrong and ultimately increase the bad feeling about the club, I've read it, watched it and heard....

It's all linked, Sanchez is a weapon used to hate because in part the issues fans have with the board, people will never acknowledge his good games and he even was blamed for another players mistake, that player ironically demanded as a signing because it showed ambition so no doubt its overly selective views.

As I've said, the net and terraces are toxic with it...I have no issue with people wanting more but don't lie or be abusive to churn and add to agendas that make it an even worse experience than it already presents itself yo be.



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I'm not sure if your comments aimed generally or to me specifically but I don't disagree with large parts of it. I don't have any issue with Sanchez, he's not good enough but has at times been very good (Jose first season as an example). He is a symptom of our poor recruitment and inability to make bold decisions when necessary at times.

I also don't consider Poch a loser. He overachieved relative to his resources and was hampered by what was going at the club at the time. We have to accept that and move on whilst taking into account what did make that period a relative success. The shame is I do not believe the ownership understand how this was achieved so replicating is something that they are finding difficult to do.

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[Grays_1890]

I'm not sure if your comments aimed generally or to me specifically but I don't disagree with large parts of it. I don't have any issue with Sanchez, he's not good enough but has at times been very good (Jose first season as an example). He is a symptom of our poor recruitment and inability to make bold decisions when necessary at times.

I also don't consider Poch a loser. He overachieved relative to his resources and was hampered by what was going at the club at the time. We have to accept that and move on whilst taking into account what did make that period a relative success. The shame is I do not believe the ownership understand how this was achieved so replicating is something that they are finding difficult to do.

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Generic comments haha I forgot to add that

The thing with our recruitment is one, in the recruitment but equally there is undoubtedly targets on players back based on price or perceived effectiveness based on loan. Kulu got pelters early on for example, was well talked about on here.

We all want better players but I also believe there is an "over the fence" attitude where we see what others do and judge on that BUT as I've said loads, would fans be as patient as other clubs whilst those players develop? I have reservations based on previous examples of hounding I've seen


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[Raziel]

We have a system for sustained high level income. We do not have a system or model for success. They are two different things.

Something I notice with your general commentary on these things is you equate direct money with results too much. Its as much about HOW you use your funds and WHEN you use those funds as it is about about the total money available.

We do not have a model or system to best maximise the funding we do have. Not on a fleeting level and certainly not in a sustained manner.

The proof is in the pudding.

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My opinion (and that's all it is)

- Money is the first step towards creating success, it's also what protects the club from mistakes. You cannot compete if you are earning >£200M/yr less than others
- How/when/strategy matter only in short term, hence the conversation about Leicester, their failure to capitalize monetarily on their PL/FA success has left the club vulnerable.

For what it's worth, I think that has been the overall (hard to discuss a single strategy over 22 years) strategy of the club, i.e. raise income to be competitive, which in turn should bring success

- In some ways it has been successful, the club is in a better place than it used to be
- It obviously hasn't translated to final success (some caveats there with Covid, City, Chelsea)

We seem to work best under a DoF, I think largely Paratici has been probably more successful than you could reasonably expect re players.

Our big problem (and again context vs. others matters, our crisis season is still better than Liverpool or Chelsea) is the manager decisions.

 

[90291Spur]

I was a little worried by Pleat’s comment the other week on a podcast questioning our new structure and the roles somewhat, especially as I know that he has Levy’s ear.
As a related aside here, Pleat being our full time English lower league chief scout would be a great appointment.

I heard that pod too and the seeming refusal to look for talent in the lower leagues is worrying. Take Ollie Watkins, who Steve Perryman basically offered to Spurs when he was at Exeter. And look at the Brighton model where they find players from other leagues who have gone under the radar. Sadly, our club as a business is top of the league, but as a football entity we are struggling to consistently be top four.

 

[tommysvr]

Our big problem is the manager decisions.

Exactly, and that’s why we should all be hopeful that it will turn around soon. Get one manager appointment right and a couple of years later you’re flying. Poch and Arteta have shown just how quickly even extremely toxic environments can be turned around.

 

[billyiddo]

I heard that pod too and the seeming refusal to look for talent in the lower leagues is worrying. Take Ollie Watkins, who Steve Perryman basically offered to Spurs when he was at Exeter. And look at the Brighton model where they find players from other leagues who have gone under the radar. Sadly, our club as a business is top of the league, but as a football entity we are struggling to consistently be top four.

Bar Emirates Marketing Project everyone has been struggling for top 4 at one point or another and i would imagine that will remain the case given there are now 6 or 7 teams that are fighting for the top positions - all the top teams will go through periods where they are the ones to lose out over the coming ten years or so.