*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v AFC Bournemouth ***

[thfcsteff]

Makes sense. I would ask a bunch of you to watch Spence more closely though. I think most are programmed to only see the best of him as he's gone from zero to hero this season. I've been watching him closely in the last couple of weeks. Eventually, some will probably see that some of Spence's defending is bang average. He is not resting behind the ball and getting back into position at all. He is way too casual in key moments. He is also the one in the defence who is most likely to play everyone onside. His positioning at times against B'mouth was hugely questionable, something I've picked Udogie up on over these last 2 seasons. Defending is all about reading of the game and positional sense, something we've been lacking in a bunch of our players since guys like Jan and Toby were playing. Spence really needs to work on this.

I'm enjoying the Djedemption thing but am expecting Djed's stock to lower quite a lot unless he irons out these clear defensive cracks (to me) in his game. We'll always enjoy the other side.

As for your points above, the question I would have back is what were all these "tired" players doing when they were fresh? I've seen Sonny fresh as a daisy and running on fumes. I've not seen a massive delta between the two Sonny's. Ditto with the others. Davies has also had a free ride with fans. Some of his defending has been found wanting since he moved inside 3 years ago. He's another that works well with fans blindspots.

All that being said, the biggest issue for me by a long, long way is Ange's utilisation of the 6 role. You can always find better players, but great coaches make things work using solid tactics. Ange is coming up way short in this area. He will fall on his sword due to his lack of adaptation with that 6 shirt.

I think you make a great point re: Spence, and clearly we're blinded by his huge upside...and there are downsides.
Sonny? He's been beaten to the turf for two to three seasons IMO. We also underestimate how great plating with Kane was for him.
Your issues with Davies are not what I am commenting on; I am pointing out that he is only one of three players we have who I consider to have played under immense pressure for a significant amount of time.
Regarding the 6. I have questioned Biss since last season, Bents I wanted to see it work but am not sure, Bergvall could be the man, and so far as 'lack of adaptation', well, that is the core of any discussion on him methinks and the ensuing debates ;-)

 

[DTA]

It would worry me if their heads are scrambled yet every thinks we play a tinkle easy system
That would make the pushers even dumber than I thought
What is clear to me is some players are really struggling to make basic passes again and that’s a skill set issue as much as anything
And we’re not talking poor technical players either
I can’t fathom that out TBH

I think the answer is simple. This system makes them nervous. When you’re nervous in any walk of life you don’t perform at your best.

 

[Muttley]

I think you make a great point re: Spence, and clearly we're blinded by his huge upside...and there are downsides.
Sonny? He's been beaten to the turf for two to three seasons IMO. We also underestimate how great plating with Kane was for him.
Your issues with Davies are not what I am commenting on; I am pointing out that he is only one of three players we have who I consider to have played under immense pressure for a significant amount of time.
Regarding the 6. I have questioned Biss since last season, Bents I wanted to see it work but am not sure, Bergvall could be the man, and so far as 'lack of adaptation', well, that is the core of any discussion on him methinks and the ensuing debates ;-)

I'm gradually coming round to the Biss arguments. Whilst a lot is on the manager, the player could do way more and get back into destroyer mode. He is coming up short, and the fans certainly don't give him a free ride.

As for Sonny, what is more relevant is that since Kane left he has had a more logical role. Kane was a lazy so-and-so for his last couple of seasons. All of his team mates did all the graft for him, including Sonny, and he got the goals and the glory. Kane even cost us a fair few as well by not doing the basic number 9 things. It's probably more the case that Sonny had to do more work then to support a very static and half-committed Kane. Whether we love or hate Ange, he has got everyone sharing the workload and that is why the goals and assists are shared around the team. If Sonny has got over the disappointment of not moving inside permanently after Kane left, he's probably enjoying this new setup more, apart from the injury crises. Yes, he has to work hard but he doesn't carry the full weight as our best finisher because of the team productivity. We need to now make sure he starts only one game a week though.

Davies has certainly dropped into a few pressure cooker situations in these last couple of seasons but not really for long spells. It's sad to say but he's actually missed a fair chunk of football himself through injuries. 7 league starts this season only, and the same again for EL but more spread out over 6 months. Where I might agree is that he'll definitely be carrying pressure off the pitch as one of the senior and trusted lieutenants.

 

[thfcsteff]

I'm gradually coming round to the Biss arguments. Whilst a lot is on the manager, the player could do way more and get back into destroyer mode. He is coming up short, and the fans certainly don't give him a free ride.

As for Sonny, what is more relevant is that since Kane left he has had a more logical role. Kane was a lazy so-and-so for his last couple of seasons. All of his team mates did all the graft for him, including Sonny, and he got the goals and the glory. Kane even cost us a fair few as well by not doing the basic number 9 things. It's probably more the case that Sonny had to do more work then to support a very static and half-committed Kane. Whether we love or hate Ange, he has got everyone sharing the workload and that is why the goals and assists are shared around the team. If Sonny has got over the disappointment of not moving inside permanently after Kane left, he's probably enjoying this new setup more, apart from the injury crises. Yes, he has to work hard but he doesn't carry the full weight as our best finisher because of the team productivity. We need to now make sure he starts only one game a week though.

Davies has certainly dropped into a few pressure cooker situations in these last couple of seasons but not really for long spells. It's sad to say but he's actually missed a fair chunk of football himself through injuries. 7 league starts this season only, and the same again for EL but more spread out over 6 months. Where I might agree is that he'll definitely be carrying pressure off the pitch as one of the senior and trusted lieutenants.

I disagree with your read of Kane. I think after the two bad ankle injuries, he modified his game (and life to be fair) to avoid further big injuries. I don't think he was ever intentionally lazy personally...

 

[billyiddo]

I think this is true, absolutely, and it is also true that players should be able to weight simple passes properly, and pass to the appropriate side of their teammate in given situations. If you can't do that (whether it is temporary psychology or being brick - I'd wager it is the former as we have decent technical proficiency) then the shape and structure you might train/prepare for falls apart within seconds.

Players are able to do that, that's a given as they're professionals who have risen to the very top of the sport, they wouldn't be where they are if they couldn't do the basics to an insanely high level. Which is why when professional players do fail at simple things, regularly, you have to ask the question why

 

[thfcsteff]

Players are able to do that, that's a given as they're professionals who have risen to the very top of the sport, they wouldn't be where they are if they couldn't do the basics to an insanely high level. Which is why when professional players do fail at simple things, regularly, you have to ask the question why

Come on mate. I understand the concept of professionals!!!!

I 'think' I see the underlying point you're trying to make? Are you saying that the loose/poor passing is all on Ange Postecoglu? Are you denying that there could be any attritional anxiety built up as a result of the last 3 chaotic months the club has found itself in with regards to injuries, expectations, and failure to deliver? I think it is a combination of factors. I have yet to see evidence of a full 'downing of tools' (which would weight the issue directly on Ange IMO)...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think the answer is simple. This system makes them nervous. When you’re nervous in any walk of life you don’t perform at your best.

Maybe
I’d argue they are struggling with the most basic things because of their aptitude

 

[billyiddo]

[Q

Come on mate. I understand the concept of professionals!!!!

I 'think' I see the underlying point you're trying to make? Are you saying that the loose/poor passing is all on Ange Postecoglu? Are you denying that there could be any attritional anxiety built up as a result of the last 3 chaotic months the club has found itself in with regards to injuries, expectations, and failure to deliver? I think it is a combination of factors. I have yet to see evidence of a full 'downing of tools' (which would weight the issue directly on Ange IMO)...

I'm saying it's not all down to the player which seems to be how it always gets framed whenever individual mistakes are an issue - if you have a team of confident motivated players in a settled system you rarely see repeated simple/basic mistakes, when players aren't in that sort of environment then you will.

 

[Muttley]

I disagree with your read of Kane. I think after the two bad ankle injuries, he modified his game (and life to be fair) to avoid further big injuries. I don't think he was ever intentionally lazy personally...

It's OK to disagree. Whichever Kane perspective we have, it amounts to the same thing when you consider the workload it put on the other 9 outfielders including Son. That was the point I was making. It's been more like 4 seasons of high intensity for him, and we need to get Son's pitch time reduced at this stage to see the best of him.

 

[thfcsteff]

[Q

I'm saying it's not all down to the player which seems to be how it always gets framed whenever individual mistakes are an issue - if you have a team of confident motivated players in a settled system you rarely see repeated simple/basic mistakes, when players aren't in that sort of environment then you will.

I agree, there are certainly several factors at play. And I have to say, with a first half that brick on Thursday, I was alarmed that Ange could not find a way to motivate/elevate the players for the second...

 

[tommysvr]

[Q

I'm saying it's not all down to the player which seems to be how it always gets framed whenever individual mistakes are an issue - if you have a team of confident motivated players in a settled system you rarely see repeated simple/basic mistakes, when players aren't in that sort of environment then you will.

Being booed off by your own fans at 1-0 down is sure to help.

 

[metalgear]

watching the highlights again ... we didn't deserve the draw