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+ OMT - Spurs vs Man Utd +

For me the end does not justify the means. That cynical approach is the thin end of a wedge which contains all I dislike about where the game is going. And coaching of tactical fouling doesn't sit right with me. That's something the other ****s do. I'm not a hippe but football is as much about the journey as the destination for me. Yes I want to win badly but I don't want to see my team turn into ****s to achieve it.
As a great man once said "the great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It's nothing of the kind. The game is about glory."
(and I'm not even drunk ;))
 
Rorschach said:
For me the end does not justify the means. That cynical approach is the thin end of a wedge which contains all I dislike about where the game is going. And coaching of tactical fouling doesn't sit right with me. That's something the other ****s do. I'm not a hippe but football is as much about the journey as the destination for me. Yes I want to win badly but I don't want to see my team turn into ****s to achieve it.
As a great man once said "the great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It's nothing of the kind. The game is about glory."
(and I'm not even drunk ;))
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In an ideal world yeah youre correct but unfortunately we are not in that dimension (;))

Therefore we can either be nice or we can play with the best of them.
 
Jimmy-g said:
Do you remember when Stevie played against them, he was seventeen or eighteen and played against Bremner and Giles at Elland road, I think it was in the FA cup and we lost 2-1, he shirked nothing that boy!
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Think it was in 72 which would have made him about 20, Pratt scored for us and as you say Perryman was in amongst them all game.
 
parklane1 said:
Think it was in 72 which would have made him about 20, Pratt scored for us and as you say Perryman was in amongst them all game.
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You are right I just looked it up, I saw the early sixties side onwards but for me the early seventies side was my favourite.
 
I loved that early 70s side, was up at Leeds when we lost that FA Cup game, also went up there the previous season when we won there with amazing performances from Chiv & Pat. There was snow on the ground that day, IIRC.

Unfortunately that win helped Arsenal win the lge and then the double.
 
JPG_357 said:
I loved that early 70s side, was up at Leeds when we lost that FA Cup game, also went up there the previous season when we won there with amazing performances from Chiv & Pat. There was snow on the ground that day, IIRC.

Unfortunately that win helped Arsenal win the lge and then the double.
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Is it just me or did it all mean more then, predominately British players and everyone on a level footing you cannot imagine another Derby and Forest scenario under Clough ever happening again, and when Leeds played Celtic in the European cup that was the match of the century.
 
DHSF said:
Yet peopel on here want us to be the nice guys. Sorry but I want us to play fairly but times are evolving and I want us to be the best and if that means being cynical being conniving and being cunning then im all for it. Barca do it, Real do it, Manure do it so why not us? Oh yeah thats right cos we are the nice guys.

fudge that. I want us to be the best and im all for it.
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It's actually something Livermore does very effectively...
 
Jimmy-g said:
Is it just me or did it all mean more then, predominately British players and everyone on a level footing you cannot imagine another Derby and Forest scenario under Clough ever happening again, and when Leeds played Celtic in the European cup that was the match of the century.
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It probably meant more to me then, because I used to go to stacks of games home and away, at least 30+ a season round those times. It was great times in one way, in other ways it was terrifying because of the violence.

Having said that I'm still massively excited whenever i watch Spurs, usually at home these days. I actually watch even more games now, because of the wonders of technology, despite the fact I haven't been to the Lane all season, and gave up away games years ago.

When I do go to the ground I make as much noise as ever I did, but of course you can't jump up and down and all the rest of it like those crazy terrace days. Then again, you're not likely to have a 'chat with Stanley' either.
 
Football has the techology to silence the unacceptable rants from Sir Alex Ferguson. It is time it used it

There were lots of things Sir Alex Ferguson could have said at the end of Manchester United’s 1-1 draw with Tottenham Hotspur on Sunday. He could have praised the industry and determination of the opposing team.

He could have moaned about the weather; he could have mentioned the way his goalkeeper seems to panic when faced with a ball in the air. He could even have said: "Well, that was a good match."

Bullet-faced and furious, however, he decided not to mention any of this.

Instead he reserved his comments for the hapless assistant referee Simon Beck, whose failure to award United a “clear penalty” Ferguson blamed for the fact that they drew rather than won a crucial match.

This attack was so staggeringly self-deluding that even as a Manchester United supporter and long-term defender of our acerbic manager, I found myself staring speechless at the television.

It assumes that United would have scored any penalty given (which on Rooney’s recent form from the spot is not a done deal); it suggests, too, that Tottenham Hotspur could scrape a draw only because officialdom went their way.

Ferguson went on to claim that Beck had a “history” with United, citing his failure to rule out an offside Didier Drogba goal for Chelsea in 2010, in a crucial match that cost United the league.

“There was no way we were going to get a decision from [Beck],” the manager said.

No wonder the Football Association has asked him to explain his comments.

If it feels that what he said amounted to a questioning of the linesman’s integrity, it will take disciplinary action against him.

Even if he is not found to have done anything wrong this time, the example Ferguson sets of criticising officialdom is becoming part of the ugliest face of football.

It may be part and parcel of his will to win, but the sight of him haranguing referees and their assistants is deeply unattractive.

He is not alone in it, but because he is so dominant as a manager, the mark of his behaviour cuts very deep. Yet he must know, in his quieter moments, that contested incidents are part of the game.

Officials in football have to make their decisions at speed and under pressure; they are human, so they sometimes err.

The Drogba goal was – replays showed – offside; the Rooney penalty claim on Sunday was less clear-cut.

Yet these are only two moments in the thousands of split-second calls that Beck has made in the two years that separate them.

The problem for football is that its long-standing resistance to technological help for match officials makes this kind of controversy likely to continue.

Goal-line technology, which will prove whether a ball has actually crossed the line, has been approved for trial by the International Football Association Board and Premier League clubs are said to want to try it out.

But it is expensive and complicated to implement, and will solve only one set of problems.

Contested goals – though dramatic – are relatively rare; it is the action in and around the penalty box that causes most difficulties.

Football has so far turned its face against the idea of any referral system to a video referee, preferring to keep the excitement and unreliability of real people standing in the mud and snow making the best call they can. This stance is unlikely to survive.

If a sending off, such as that of Emirates Marketing Project’s Vincent Kompany for his fierce but entirely fair tackle the other week, can be reversed by post-match video evidence, then it is increasingly hard to argue against the use of instant replays in the course of the game.

A referral system, such as that used in cricket or tennis, might actually become part of the tempo of the contest – certainly it would give everyone a chance to calm down.

But in the meantime managers such as Ferguson and virtually every player who pulls on a pair of boots should think of this before they dissent: cricket’s umpire decision review system still has its critics, but its value lies in the fact that it seems to show that umpires are right as often as they are wrong.

It has not led to the undermining of their authority, but rather it has become part of the system in which they operate.

In cricket, people do make mistakes, but they are still respected and valued. In football, referees are under constant pressure, and held in contempt.

It is courageous of them to make any judgment at all. Every time Sir Alex Ferguson argues against them, he undermines the game he loves.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/9819058/Football-has-the-techology-to-silence-the-unacceptable-rants-from-Sir-Alex-Ferguson.-It-is-time-it-used-it.html
 
The FA have themselves to blame for what Ferguson does, they keep letting him get away with so much brick that other managers don't. No surprise that he keeps crossing lines when he's been able to cross so many without repercussions.
 
http://www.eplindex.com/25068/tottenham-1-1-man-utd-tactical-goal-analysis.html
Spurs-Utd-3.png


3 – With Dawson and Caulker back in position, Naughton attempts to return to his position. Neither Parker nor Dembele, however, have covered for him. This ultimately becomes costly as Cleverley is left in enough space to pick out van Persie for the opener.

Spurs-Utd-4.png


This screenshot is just before the equalizer. Notice Welbeck’s (RW at the time) positioning. Evra goes into the duel with Vidic, Caulker, and de Gea, while Welbeck remains on the edge of the area. The space left behind gives Lennon enough time to pick out either Dawson (circled) or Dempsey (not circled).
This was actually a persisting problem throughout the match. Spurs would consistently pick up the second ball before it even left the area, forcing United to fend off even more pressure. It is unclear if this was due to Welbeck’s lack of defensive awareness or Evra’s insistency to jump for the same balls as Vidic, but this space was always exposed. In order to best illustrate my point, I created an album of instances where this space was left exposed, in chronological order.
Link: Tottenham vs. Manchester United – Back-post Space – Album
When the goal arrived, it was no shock it was as a result of a lose ball at the back post.
 
How come Fat Sam gets slapped with an immediate FA Misconduct Charge and Furgie only gets asked to explain his comments?
 
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