Soooo much more than a DM.What would you call Fernandinho? Currently a CB due to emergency, but usually?
Looks at these xG Buildup and deep progression figures:
Soooo much more than a DM.What would you call Fernandinho? Currently a CB due to emergency, but usually?
It's not just me that thinks that.City have Fernandinho and Rodri. They are tough tackling and press resistant. That they are better at progressing the ball than our defensive midfielders does not mean they are not defensive midfielders. It appears that you think DMs are only Claude Makalele types.
You mean they do more than defend? Of course. But primarily they are ball winners i.e they defend. Rodri for example, completed the most tackles in la Liga last season. He was bought to replace/ back up Fernandinho not de Bruyne.It's not just me that thinks that.
Fernandinho and Rodri are much, much more than DMs & that's why they're not DMs.
Lots of bad luck in this game for me, plus some poor finishing. We played very well all told, riding out a few average performances too. Still early doors and if we play like this consistently, taking advantage of chances created, we will be fine.
Important thing is that we stay strong and stay compact as a club. Everyone will be gunning for us but we have to ignore.
My only concern is that we are unable to close out games when in winning positions. It seems bizarre. We have to learn how again...soon!
Game observations...
Sorry, Maddison is a cheating clam. Lying there looking for a red card when Sissoko won the ball cleanly.
Evans dangles a leg on Rose in the box - nothing.
Kane’s goal was brilliant, this after being fouled yet again when going through (I’m sure he took a dive though, right?!!!!!!).
Sonny has to score when through on 57 mind.
I know VAR goes for and against everyone, but that was NOT offside by any logical conclusion. I am not even sure I understand how Aurier’s strike can be considered within the same phase of play. He is clearly NOT directly interfering with play when the ball is fired in by Aurier. Has the initial phase involving Sonny not ended when the defender tackles him and the ball goes back out? I think it is a ludicrous decision.
If Sissoko gets booked for the Maddison tackle, why doesn’t Evans for the tackle on Kane at the halfway line? Bear in mind I don’t think either were yellows, but if Kane had pulled a Maddison and looked for a card he’s have got it.
Why weren’t any of our players attacking the 6 yard box when Sonny makes that move on 78 mins into the box? Criminal. Tap in.
I didn’t think VW was great, but for me, the Eriksen sub was one which was just as bad. AWFUL free-kick in the 80th min, just brick. His deliveries were all largely awful.
Demari Gray lucky to stay on the pitch for the OTT stamp on Rose. Foyth off for less at Bournemouth.
I think that we could have won this, but it was a fairly balanced match. It was not like they didn’t deserve to win. I think that at 1-0 we should have controlled the game more.
Making a lot of tackles doesn't make either primarily a ball winner. Modric made a pile too, remember?You mean they do more than defend? Of course. But primarily they are ball winners i.e they defend. Rodri for example, completed the most tackles in la Liga last season. He was bought to replace/ back up Fernandinho not de Bruyne.
Modric did not tackle to the extent of those two and is not a defensive midfielder. To make a direct comparison between those two and modric is erroneous imo.Making a lot of tackles doesn't make either primarily a ball winner. Modric made a pile too, remember?
Fernandinho is not a DM - to describe is as just that is hugely insulting to his overall ability - Rodri too.
Making a lot of tackles doesn't make either primarily a ball winner. Modric made a pile too, remember?
Fernandinho is not a DM - to describe is as just that is hugely insulting to his overall ability - Rodri too. Wanyama is a DM, Parker was a DM. Putting one of those into a modern team with higher expectations would be hugely detrimental to our success.
It's not pedantry, it's a very important distinction.So basically your just being pedantic over the term DM as opposed to a deep lying playmaker whose first responsibility is being defensively minded, because if that’s the case whatever you want to call said role i agree with you BUT we don’t have Fernandinho, Rodri, Busquets or De Jong, we have Dier, Wanyama and Skipp, Winks is not that player whose first responsibility should be the defensive side/protecting the back four as the City and Barca players are and I’m not sure Ndombele is either.
To go back to one of your previous points about we should be aiming to emulate this, of course we should but that requires signing a player of that profile not sticking a square peg in a round hole, until said time we have Dier, Wanyama and Skipp, we need someone sitting deep protecting the back four.
With Dembele and Wanyama we finished second with our highest ever pl points total. With Kante both Leicester and Chelsea won the PL.It's not pedantry, it's a very important distinction.
Using my methods, we would end up with a deep lying 2 of Modric and Dembele and become very successful. Using the traditional description of a DM, we could end up with Parker and Wanyama with obvious results.
Of course they can defend, all modern midfielders should be able to attack and defend.Modric did not tackle to the extent of those two and is not a defensive midfielder. To make a direct comparison between those two and modric is erroneous imo.
Re Rodri taken from the following article on the BBC website after he arrived at City:
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/48860805
As a defensive midfielder, Rodri is said to be outstanding. And, given the position of strength City have worked themselves into, he will have a season to bed in as Fernandinho's stellar Blues career draws to a close.
Re Fernandinho on transfermkt his position is written as defensive midfielder. Similarly in the Independent where they are comparing his conversion into a centre back to Javier Mascherano's, Fernandinho is again referred to as a defensive midfielder.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fernandinho/leistungsdaten/spieler/26267
www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/man-city-fernandinho-defence-pep-guardiola-career-contract-news-a8771696.html%3famp
I am certain pretty much every football observer would describe both of them as defensive midfielders because defending is their primary function. But of course being in a Guardiola team they do not just sit deep.
Fabinho plays that position for Liverpool, Kante for Chelsea. Without Dembele, Wanyama or Dier we lack that kind of quality. Someone for Winks or Ndombele to play alongside. Perhaps long term Ndombele will become that player, too early to say. It shows at the moment in how open we are in midfield, although Sissoko did well there yesterday.
Haha you are clearly trolling as usual. I will leave the discussion there.Of course they can defend, all modern midfielders should be able to attack and defend.
Using lazy shorthand and oversimplifications doesn't prove your point.
Neither Rodri nor Fernandinho would have made it into the City team if they weren't elite passers and neither should we be accepting "good at tackling" as a CV for our midfielders. It's a very important distinction because it's the difference between Dembele and Wanyama, between Modric and Parker. Use one method of valuing midfielders (or DMs if you insist) and we end up bottom 6. Use the other and we probably win the league.
Oh and Kante shouldn't ever get anywhere near our team.
It's not pedantry, it's a very important distinction.
Using my methods, we would end up with a deep lying 2 of Modric and Dembele and become very successful. Using the traditional description of a DM, we could end up with Parker and Wanyama with obvious results.
ICYMI in the VAR thread but just to confirm that a player can travel 14cm per frame which means that an attacker really needs to be at least 6 inches offside before VAR can overrule as being a clear & obviousl error, which Son clearly wasn’t!
With the quality which we have in the 3 positions behind Kane (Son, Eriksen, Dele, Moura, Lo Celso, Lamela) we could probably play any two of our CMs and still be relatively ok. We just need to get back to playing our best formation, 4-2-3-1, so that we can play 3 of those behind Kane and get some familiarity with it. Chopping and changing formation is what is killing us, less so which players are picked
I agree with that. Though I have less of a problem with changing formations and more of a problem with the diamond formation being used. Leaves the three "deeper" midfielders with way too much to do. Perhaps sometimes when chasing a game, or playing at home against bus parking teams, but not away to a good opponent like Leicester.With the quality which we have in the 3 positions behind Kane (Son, Eriksen, Dele, Moura, Lo Celso, Lamela) we could probably play any two of our CMs and still be relatively ok. We just need to get back to playing our best formation, 4-2-3-1, so that we can play 3 of those behind Kane and get some familiarity with it. Chopping and changing formation is what is killing us, less so which players are picked
With the quality which we have in the 3 positions behind Kane (Son, Eriksen, Dele, Moura, Lo Celso, Lamela) we could probably play any two of our CMs and still be relatively ok. We just need to get back to playing our best formation, 4-2-3-1, so that we can play 3 of those behind Kane and get some familiarity with it. Chopping and changing formation is what is killing us, less so which players are picked