OMT - Spurs v West Ham

[Bedfordspurs]

and they don't learn from their mistakes as it happens time and time again

That’s true but I’ll add that I thought airier and sissoko plays well myself
Mistakes happen
The problem is the frequency

 

[DubSpur]

A lot blaming the CBs (and not saying they were blameless) but if you allow the amount of crosses that came in yesterday then there is eventually going to be a mistake or an unlucky bounce/deflection leading to a goal. The crosses should've been stopped at the source and the amount of stupid freekicks that allowed crosses needs to be cut out.

I would've brought on Davies for Son to shore up the left-hand side and Doherty for Aurier. Could've gone to a back 3 or pushed Reguilon to left midfield and kept it to 4 at the back.
While Aurier has been playing decent Doherty is less likely to give away the number of silly freekicks that Aurier does.

I also don't understand Mourinhos preference for Moura over Lamela. As others have said Lamela is the perfect player for breaking up play, wasting time and using the dark arts to get us over the line in games like this.

 

[Kandi1977]

and they don't learn from their mistakes as it happens time and time again

You can't blame Aurier for the 3rd goal! He did exactly what he should do. He just stood behind the player. But all the attacker needs to do is fall over, which he did, and it's a FK. Players construct those kind of fk's all the time. Nothing you can do about it.
What's Aurier supposed to do there? Back off and let him turn???
Can only imagine the outrage that would cause, if he backed off, the attacker turned, and put in a cross that gets buried in the net! Folks here would be livid!

 

[Bedfordspurs]

You can't blame Aurier for the 3rd goal! He did exactly what he should do. He just stood behind the player. But all the attacker needs to do is fall over, which he did, and it's a FK. Players construct those kind of fk's all the time. Nothing you can do about it.
What's Aurier supposed to do there? Back off and let him turn???
Can only imagine the outrage that would cause, if he backed off, the attacker turned, and put in a cross that gets buried in the net! Folks here would be livid!

Agreed

 

[Pirate55]

If you set up to sit back and protect a lead you invite pressure which can lead to mistakes. If you take that approach with several error prone players in the defensive third then you're rolling the dice.

No manager can legislate for brainless players.

 

[Jurgen the German]

It could be that
Could also be a freak result which has happened many times vs wet spam
We will see in the next game

and Hull have spent more time top of the league than we have

We definitely should be challenging this season without question. We have the best striker in the league in the form of his life. We have Son in the form of his life. We have Bale. We have one of the best midfields in the league. Our defence is a big worry but we have the fire power to blow most teams away. I just don’t fancy us at all when it comes to crunch games. Hoping that will change with Jose in charge now but I remain unconvinced until we can actually just get to the top of the league. Not even staying there, just getting there for one game.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We definitely should be challenging this season without question. We have the best striker in the league in the form of his life. We have Son in the form of his life. We have Bale. We have one of the best midfields in the league. Our defence is a big worry but we have the fire power to blow most teams away. I just don’t fancy us at all when it comes to crunch games. Hoping that will change with Jose in charge now but I remain unconvinced until we can actually just get to the top of the league. Not even staying there, just getting there for one game.

Wouldn’t United away be a crunch game?

And I agree. We shut the bed when we get that chance to go top

 

[glasgowspur]

A lot blaming the CBs (and not saying they were blameless) but if you allow the amount of crosses that came in yesterday then there is eventually going to be a mistake or an unlucky bounce/deflection leading to a goal. The crosses should've been stopped at the source and the amount of stupid freekicks that allowed crosses needs to be cut out.

I would've bought on Davies for Son to shore up the left-hand side and Doherty for Aurier. Could've gone to a back 3 or pushed Reguilon to left midfield and kept it to 4 at the back.
While Aurier has been playing decent Doherty is less likely to give away the number of silly freekicks that Aurier does.

I also don't understand Mourinhos preference for Moura over Lamela. As others have said Lamela is the perfect player for breaking up play, wasting time and using the dark arts to get us over the line in games like this.

Only one CB getting the blame, the other seems to be invisible.
Dont know why, and we've been doing it for age, but we concede possession from our 18 yard line to the edge of the centre circle very easily.
We pressed really well in their half yesterday in the first, and didn't in our half.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Only one CB getting the blame, the other seems to be invisible.
Dont know why, and we've been doing it for age, but we concede possession from our 18 yard line to the edge of the centre circle very easily.
We pressed really well in their half yesterday in the first, and didn't in our half.

I thought Toby was great myself

 

[demotw]

We struggle with dominating in the air, same story against Saudi Sportswashing Machine and the goals we conceded against these lot. Toby and Sanchez are not the type to do this, Dier perhaps a bit more so but still not perfect. I think anyone who has a big team with strong aerial ability will cause us problems at the back.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We struggle with dominating in the air, same story against Saudi Sportswashing Machine and the goals we conceded against these lot. Toby and Sanchez are not the type to do this, Dier perhaps a bit more so but still not perfect. I think anyone who has a big team with strong aerial ability will cause us problems at the back.

Agree
It’s an issue
It’s been an issue for some time
Jan was great in the air

 

[a spur from swansea]

So frigging frustrated,one minute we fix one issue then another pops up...after the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game we have loads of chances and then get a sucker punch,we score three this time and still get caught....we don't seem to get the rub at the moment,that last goal yesterday,to hit it so tight to the corner post he won't do that in a month of Sundays again.

One minute we're tight and compact,closing down doing the right things at the right time then. We can't clear a ball 50 yards,we give cheap free kicks ,don't challenge for free kicks... schoolboy stuff. One issue is clearing the ball at the right time,play percentage ball, its not hard a bit basic but it does the job.When clearing give it a bit air, play it down the line, make their defenders turn,this gives our forwards time to run for it as it drops behind the defender ,as it drops,hopefully the defender will have to knock it out for a throw in. Sanchez and Aurier,one kicks low and hard back to their defence the other dilly dallies and gets caught in possession and gives a free kick....

I'm surprised nothing was said about Bale being pushed just before he took a shot at the end their,making him lose his balance...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

So frigging frustrated,one minute we fix one issue then another pops up...after the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game we have loads of chances and then get a sucker punch,we score three this time and still get caught....we don't seem to get the rub at the moment,that last goal yesterday,to hit it so tight to the corner post he won't do that in a month of Sundays again.

One minute we're tight and compact,closing down doing the right things at the right time then. We can't clear a ball 50 yards,we give cheap free kicks ,don't challenge for free kicks... schoolboy stuff. One issue is clearing the ball at the right time,play percentage ball, its not hard a bit basic but it does the job.When clearing give it a bit air, play it down the line, make their defenders turn,this gives our forwards time to run for it as it drops behind the defender ,as it drops,hopefully the defender will have to knock it out for a throw in. Sanchez and Aurier,one kicks low and hard back to their defence the other dilly dallies and gets caught in possession and gives a free kick....

I'm surprised nothing was said about Bale being pushed just before he took a shot at the end their,making him lose his balance...

Just said that in the bale thread

I’ll add that we did IMO get everything first half. Every loose ball went to us. Second half that changed within a minute which was odd and maybe showed their intensity changed. It had too though as they could lose 5 nil as much as go for it

 

[Diamond Lights]

I also don't understand Mourinhos preference for Moura over Lamela. As others have said Lamela is the perfect player for breaking up play, wasting time and using the dark arts to get us over the line in games like this.

Jose loves Lamela, but Lamela had a knock from all accounts? Not sure Jose can help that?

 

[DubSpur]

Jose loves Lamela, but Lamela had a knock from all accounts? Not sure Jose can help that?

I didn't hear he had a knock. It still doesn't explain the rest of the season where Moura started and offered very little in those games.

 

[Diamond Lights]

I didn't hear he had a knock. It still doesn't explain the rest of the season where Moura started and offered very little in those games.

Moura is marmite, but was some good points over on the GG podcast about Moura. He is limited sure, but offers aggressive running all game. Again, think he was a great sub to bring on to offer an outlet on the break and to assist down the left where they continually attacked all game.

 

[Bishop]

Agree
It’s an issue
It’s been an issue for some time
Jan was great in the air

Toby even at his physical best was never a particularly dominate CB aerially. Now in his dimished state he seems to struggle to get off the ground at times.

We are set up to receive crosses, Jose has clearly set us up to defend in numbers and to stop clean scoring chances which does mean the opposition are likely to go for crosses instead. Without having a pair of aerially dominate CBs it is certainly going to be an issue throughout the season (although I put no blame at their feet for yesterday's result).

 

[90sSpursBook]

I'll start by saying that the outcome of this game is right up there with the most embarrassing and humiliating (adding in the context of it being West Ham) of recent times - up there with Colchester, Bayern Munich and going back a little further Emirates Marketing Project in 2004.

However, some of the reaction is akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. As with anything really good or bad we have to try hard to separate a one-off from the wider context. As we needed to remain grounded after beating Man U 6-1 a fortnight ago we now must remain measured in review of yesterday and try to identify the patterns where they exist.

I got so many messages from spurs mates yesterday saying that was 'so typical Spurs' - well lets debunk that one....I can guarantee that every set of supporters has a core that believes only their team are capable of such contempt and misgivings. That was the first occasion since we drew with stoke in 2015 that we have led by 2 goals in a home league game and not gone on to win. The occasion before that came in 2004 v Leicester. we have led giants like Real Madrid (2017), Chelsea's title winning teams (2015, 2017), Woolwich when they were good and Emirates Marketing Project on many occasions and gone on to win all those games so there's really no pattern of throwing away 2+ goal leads leading to the conclusion that yesterday was very much the exception and not the rule.

NOTE - - I accept that we were pegged back in Jose's first two games last season against West Ham and Bournemouth in successive weeks from 3-0 to 3-2 (and I suspect had the games gone on any longer they might have been 3-3 too!) but ultimately we rode those out and it feels like a lot has happened since.

It is simply unforgiveable to give away a 3 goal lead, especially against inferior opponents, at home with less than 10 minutes remaining. The pattern that does hit me in the face and generate concern is how we defend set pieces. Of the 5 home goals we have conceded this season 4 have come from left wing set plays (albeit I still label the Saudi Sportswashing Machine penalty as a laws of the game farce). Last year, even in the Poch doldrum we didn't concede any goals from set pieces ironically until Jose's first game at West Ham. Perhaps therefore there is a problem to be solved in not allowing those free kicks to be conceded in the first instance and then the actual defending of them but this too is quite simplistic. We actually defend the first ball fine yesterday - it is then a combination of poor choice by Winks, a probable foul on him by Ogbonna and then a 1 in a 100 worldy strike. Also, I have only discussed the free kicks we have conceded from and havent got the number of times we defend them fine and not concede.

We were obviously electric at the start of the game yesterday and utterly ruthless in front of goal. Whilst we didn't maintain that it is absolutely expectant that we did then cede possession of the ball and with West Ham making a game of it in the second half (compare their approach to United who gave up at half-time, or even Burnley last season whom we went on to win 5-0 and they shut up shop in the second) there were always going to uncomfortable moments. That said even at 3-1 I had no fears that we wouldn't go on to win. The timing and nature of their second goal clearly spooked us though even then on another day Bale makes it 4-2 and the narrative is entrely diferent.

I get what Jose said post game which Declan Rice alluded to...sometimes it just feels as if things are meant to be and 'football happens' - we've been on the right side of this more often than not - think back to Ajax, Emirates Marketing Project (CL) and even several of our late joys against West Ham.

We need to look back on this game in a few weeks/months time to review it for its context; it may become the cause of future (mental) breakdowns and this is something Jose has to fix but I really don't see it as a consequence of current failings. I think we'll look back at it as a blip.

For context this date last year we ground out a somewhat fortuitous 1-1 home draw with Watford in what was the dying embers of Poch's reign though the game happened in reverse with us scoring the late equaliser and papering over the cracks; I certainly feel far more positive where we are now 12 months on.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Moura is marmite, but was some good points over on the GG podcast about Moura. He is limited sure, but offers aggressive running all game. Again, think he was a great sub to bring on to offer an outlet on the break and to assist down the left where they continually attacked all game.

What’s the GG podcast? It’s not one I’ve heard of?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Toby even at his physical best was never a particularly dominate CB aerially. Now in his dimished state he seems to struggle to get off the ground at times.

We are set up to receive crosses, Jose has clearly set us up to defend in numbers and to stop clean scoring chances which does mean the opposition are likely to go for crosses instead. Without having a pair of aerially dominate CBs it is certainly going to be an issue throughout the season (although I put no blame at their feet for yesterday's result).

Rodon is 6’4 and meant to be good in the air