braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Sorry Brain, but you won't convince me the two things were merely coincidence. Although you curiously say they weren't related. You eloquently try to minimise Dembele's role in the team, whereas I maintain he has been one of the vital cogs in our recent good run. He simply has strengths others don't and adds a steeliness to our midfield which allows others, particularly Eriksen, to flourish. To have too many "re-cyclers" or "fast passers" make us too one dimensional. I would be very surprised if Poch left Dembele out of our big games ( especially the Goons) and I think taking him off on Monday was to give him a rest and keep him fresh for the battles ahead. We will soon see how Poch rates him.
If there was a (strong) causal relationship between Dembele going off and us losing control in the game how does that work? Just saying "steeliness" really doesn't explain anything. I've explicitly asked for examples of what he does and how it works.
Could you also explain why we have seen us lose control of games with Dembele in them? What is it about what he does that keeps us in control that's failed in those games?
Remember we also had Dier in the team. I don't think we could be accused of having too many fast passers or being one dimensional. If anything Mason made us more balanced.
One further point. All the big successful teams in the EPL in recent years tend to have a major physical player in midfield. Matic, Toure, Schweinstieger/Schneiderlin or going further back, Vierra and Keane. Ar5ena1's lack of success in recent years (apart from the last two cups) is largely down to them never replacing Vierra in midfield but relying too heavily on skilful passers IMO
Again. We have that in Dier too.
Dembele is also quite different to many of those in that he wasn't playing as a deep/defensive midfielder for us against Villa. Also you're talking almost exclusively about world class players with a multitude of strengths. Dembele had the potential to become world class, so far he's not lived up to his potential.
This is funny. People have come with a new angle. As a fellow poster put it. continue looking for evidence to minimise Dembele's performance on that day. All we needed to do during that 10 minutes of madness was to cool the passage of play, slow the ball down, hold on it - make Aston press and become more tired. Isn't it funny that when Lamela held on to the ball for a while, things cooled down? The good thing is that as the team becomes more experienced, they will know what to do during such times.
Now let's think back to the Liverpool game when gegen-pressing started - what happened? Players that didnt have the technical ability to hold on to the ball, give a good pass were floundering. One of Dembele's strength is that it is very difficult to get the ball off him unless you foul him and now that he has started sniffing again around the goal area - that is good news. Infact it is wunderbar news for Spurs, we have another arrow in our midfield's bow. How anyone can try to write it down makes one wonder if we are fans of Spurs or fans of certain players ...
Of course the above is my personal opinion. I am not a football coach. I also grew up with a different football philosophy than most in the UK. Street ball rules ...
Could I equally claim that people are minimizing Mason's performance by stating that we lost control as a result of him coming on? I see Dembele differently to you and Pirate it would seem, or rather his impact on various game situations differently. But it's a question of strengths and weaknesses.
How does "slowing the ball down" make Villa press more and become more tired? Isn't it harder to maintain a high press when the ball is moved around quickly? And again, did Dembele actually do what you claim is important in the 10 minutes leading up to the sub? Again claims are being made about what Dembele does, but without any examples being given with him actually doing that in the period leading up to the sub (surely the most comparable game situation to the period directly after the sub).
Lamela held on to the ball in the corners in the final minutes. You really want us to start doing that around the time Mason came on when a goal ahead at home? Seems like a really bad idea to me.
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For a quick comparison, as asking people to watch the 20 minutes of football surrounding the sub in question might be asking too much, some passing maps from squawka. To be perfectly clear and forthright the slider works in 5 minute intervals so it's probably closer to 8-9 minutes for Dembele and 11-12 minutes for Mason. But I don't think that makes much of a difference. Again, to be perfectly clear, I'm not just trying to prove my point with stats or claiming that stats have all the answers. I'm using this as a discussion about what actually happened in the game for everyone to see with their own eyes really isn't happening.
Other than that Dembele was fouled once, fouled an opponent once and lost the ball once. And again I will point out that his one dribble and winning a foul was a good piece of play, him showing some of his strengths. But minutes later he tried again and lost the ball.
So I ask again. What was it Dembele actually did that made him so important to us keeping control in the game?