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OMT: Mighty Spurs vs Brighton & Hove Albion

Bedfordspurs said:
And he can’t or didn’t do that enough
I blame Ange for not giving Veliz more minutes or Donley for that matter
That’s on him
Be doesn’t play youngsters
But he does give Gil minutes despite his lack of anything in reality
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He doesn't think the youngsters are good enough in that case. It's a hard stick to beat him with when there's no evidence they would be up to playing to the level he wants.
 
Bishop said:
He doesn't think the youngsters are good enough in that case. It's a hard stick to beat him with when there's no evidence they would be up to playing to the level he wants.
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I get that logic
But there is no evidence they couldn’t play a more prominent role
Son was horrendous again
His touch isn’t there and he falls when challenged. He looks like a Sunday league player with a hangover, not the world class finisher. We can’t swap him out because Ange doesn’t have the players he trust in the bench. But by not taking him off he is getting more tired and playing worse
 
For context on the youth thing…
Look at who scored their first goal
An unproven right back from their youth team

We don’t know how good those players may be. Hell they may not be ready. But they can do the basic things ange needs and they have with and enthusiasm to go with their technical ability

Remember when Kane came in and was knocking on the door. Took Poch half a season in reality to give him a run. And yeah he was more experienced but wasn’t proven that’s for sure
 
Bishop said:
He doesn't think the youngsters are good enough in that case. It's a hard stick to beat him with when there's no evidence they would be up to playing to the level he wants.
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Couldnt believe the amount of stuff I was seeing on the internet today about how Ange should play Philips from people who’d never seen him play. Players really do become better when they aren’t in the team.

The lad has played 8 games in the Championship, he’s 18 and would be coming into a team with no recognised centre back beside him away to a really good premier league side. You have to trust the manager on these calls - to me it would have been insanity to throw him in tonight.
 
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Bedfordspurs said:
For context on the youth thing…
Look at who scored their first goal
An unproven right back from their youth team

We don’t know how good those players may be. Hell they may not be ready. But they can do the basic things ange needs and they have with and enthusiasm to go with their technical ability

Remember when Kane came in and was knocking on the door. Took Poch half a season in reality to give him a run. And yeah he was more experienced but wasn’t proven that’s for sure
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In the end, we all have to admit that we don't have the full picture because we are not seeing the young players and even Dier in training. However, there does come a point where, based on Royal's poor performances as a centre back, that either the other options are so substandard that they do not belong at the club or Ange has a huge blindspot and is making a mistake. After all, Royal has played there 3 times and we have shipped 9 goals, while he looks lost both as a tackler and a distributor. Surely one of the two young centre backs, captained at international level are worth a try? Even Dier, with one foot out of the club could not be much worse?

My main gripe today was why not change things earlier? Ange is talking about tiredness, but Lo Celso only got a look in after we were 3 down.
 
NYSpur said:
In the end, we all have to admit that we don't have the full picture because we are not seeing the young players and even Dier in training. However, there does come a point where, based on Royal's poor performances as a centre back, that either the other options are so substandard that they do not belong at the club or Ange has a huge blindspot and is making a mistake. After all, Royal has played there 3 times and we have shipped 9 goals, while he looks lost both as a tackler and a distributor. Surely one of the two young centre backs, captained at international level are worth a try? Even Dier, with one foot out of the club could not be much worse?

My main gripe today was why not change things earlier? Ange is talking about tiredness, but Lo Celso only got a look in after we were 3 down.
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The logic with royal is fair statistically but IMO today be was ok.. abajn
That’s royal.. ok
I get the Dier move. He can’t run and Anges doesn’t rate his passing
But I do believe a youth player who is “adult size” can do those things. Why not give them a chance?
 
There aren't any youngsters screaming out to be picked tbh, the best rated ones are in the first team already. We haven't had the benefit(?) of seeing any others in the Europa League or League Cup to gauge their level like with Pochettinos first couple of seasons so it's just blind faith on (most) fans part to call for them to be included - this sometimes happens after poor results or performances from players, 'this player I've never seen kick a ball would surely have done a better job than.player X who just had a bad game' easy to say when it's not your job on the line for every point lost.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
The logic with royal is fair statistically but IMO today be was ok.. abajn
That’s royal.. ok
I get the Dier move. He can’t run and Anges doesn’t rate his passing
But I do believe a youth player who is “adult size” can do those things. Why not give them a chance?
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The problem with Royal is he does not have the nouse to play as a centre back. In the Villa game TV here highlighted how his positioning was all wrong for what ended up being a narrow offside goal. I'm no fan of Dier, but he has played the position. If Royal was good on the ball and excellent in picking a pass it would be different, but I see no sign of that. He is more likely to try an outrageous flick that gifts a goal imho. If you are Bournemouth watching today's game, and then see the same back four, aren't you licking your chops? To your point, giving a young player a chance might pay off unless they really are poor. I remember Paul Miller making a solid debut away at Arsenal as a 19 year old ....
 
Bedfordspurs said:
The logic with royal is fair statistically but IMO today be was ok.. abajn
That’s royal.. ok
I get the Dier move. He can’t run and Anges doesn’t rate his passing
But I do believe a youth player who is “adult size” can do those things. Why not give them a chance?
Click to expand...
Ange sees them in training and knows the game better than us. You have to trust his judgement on it.

Throwing Phillips in tonight would have just been a proverbial hit and hope. Maybe he does well but you’d have to say that all the circumstances are against the lad. He has a ‘mare and it becomes very tough for him. The lad is 18, he’d be a headline in the media and he’d get slaughtered on socials. Playing him in a game like tonight would be a massive risk on many levels.
 
NYSpur said:
The problem with Royal is he does not have the nouse to play as a centre back. In the Villa game TV here highlighted how his positioning was all wrong for what ended up being a narrow offside goal. I'm no fan of Dier, but he has played the position. If Royal was good on the ball and excellent in picking a pass it would be different, but I see no sign of that. He is more likely to try an outrageous flick that gifts a goal imho. If you are Bournemouth watching today's game, and then see the same back four, aren't you licking your chops? To your point, giving a young player a chance might pay off unless they really are poor. I remember Paul Miller making a solid debut away at Arsenal as a 19 year old ....
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was a different sport back then
 
DeanoAustin said:
Ange sees them in training and knows the game better than us. You have to trust his judgement on it.

Throwing Phillips in tonight would have just been a proverbial hit and hope. Maybe he does well but you’d have to say that all the circumstances are against the lad. He has a ‘mare and it becomes very tough for him. The lad is 18, he’d be a headline in the media and he’d get slaughtered on socials. Playing him in a game like tonight would be a massive risk on many levels.
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But other clubs do it fine
pool have the young lad at CB
Everton have tried the young lad and apparently now they want £100m for him
united have done it
city have brought through youngsters
we don’t
we bring through spare parts
its a culture that has to change because these youngster are doing everything they can when playing competitively
thye may not be the answer but they really can’t be worse
are we likely to concede the goals we conceded today with a young lad at CB… who knows
i do know that I’d like to see it first before judging

and is playing a player who has tuned at CB worse than playing a guy out of position, especially one with obvious limitations
the goals conceded column does highlight it…
 
Bedfordspurs said:
But other clubs do it fine
pool have the young lad at CB
Everton have tried the young lad and apparently now they want £100m for him
united have done it
city have brought through youngsters
we don’t
we bring through spare parts
its a culture that has to change because these youngster are doing everything they can when playing competitively
thye may not be the answer but they really can’t be worse
are we likely to concede the goals we conceded today with a young lad at CB… who knows
i do know that I’d like to see it first before judging

and is playing a player who has tuned at CB worse than playing a guy out of position, especially one with obvious limitations
the goals conceded column does highlight it…
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The Liverpool lad is a couple of years older. The Everton lad played nearly 30 games for PSV.

They also haven’t thrown those lads in next to a full back without a proper DM in front of them.

We may have played Phillips tonight and still only conceded 4. But imagine he has the sort of evening that Nathan Collins had last night - he’d be destroyed. I’m not against the lad having minutes - I just wouldn’t do it in circumstances like tonight.
 
NYSpur said:
The problem with Royal is he does not have the nouse to play as a centre back. In the Villa game TV here highlighted how his positioning was all wrong for what ended up being a narrow offside goal. I'm no fan of Dier, but he has played the position. If Royal was good on the ball and excellent in picking a pass it would be different, but I see no sign of that. He is more likely to try an outrageous flick that gifts a goal imho. If you are Bournemouth watching today's game, and then see the same back four, aren't you licking your chops? To your point, giving a young player a chance might pay off unless they really are poor. I remember Paul Miller making a solid debut away at Arsenal as a 19 year old ....
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I dont believe Royal was the issue tonight. I need to state that again
For me it was the experienced attackers failing in their roles
son has been really poor since Saudi Sportswashing Machine, his first touch has been horrendous and he falls over at every challenge
not picking his man for their first goal was basic
kulu gave the pen away with sheer stupidity. That’s really not good for a senior player
That’s game over at that point. The argument will be that we havent had alternatives to bring in but veliz has not been used much at all even when we were 4 up vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine for example. Same with donley
why wasnt Dorrington brought in on that game…

I get Ange is in his early days but it’s a huge worry for Me. He hasnt got a rep for bringing though youngsters and right now we have an outstanding crop that are doing everything they can

we will sign more players pushing them further back in the pecking order too
 
DeanoAustin said:
The Liverpool lad is a couple of years older. The Everton lad played nearly 30 games for PSV.

They also haven’t thrown those lads in next to a full back without a proper DM in front of them.

We may have played Phillips tonight and still only conceded 4. But imagine he has the sort of evening that Nathan Collins had last night - he’d be destroyed. I’m not against the lad having minutes - I just wouldn’t do it in circumstances like tonight.
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we need to do a better job of getting them loans lower down the PL to get experience
 
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