OMT: Everton vs Mighty Spurs

[Bedfordspurs]

Nor was Siggy for that matter. In the entire second half I don't think I heard his name once. Good investment of £45m.

Yet people wanted both players. Their good players but not players at teams that win the league IMO

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Well being honest i was more then surprised when we bought him here ( the price we paid means nothing though and those who use it to have a go at him are wrong imo), he seems to rush things more then he should and shows ( imo) that he may lack confidence. He is strong and has pace but putting him out wide does not suit his game, however playing through the middle suits him and he showed yesterday that he feels more happy there.

I accept that he has not done that well since he has been here, but he has also not been as bad as some make out and no matter what he does they can not wait to say so. Will he ever become a fan favourite? not a chance as so many have made their mind up that he is brick and no matter how he does he will never impress the keyboard warriors or armchair supporters who will not give him any credit when he does play well. The evidence is in this thread, he had a good game yesterday and most of the fans i met during and after the game said the same thing, but he does not seem to be viewed fairly by a section of fans who as i have said have branded him ( brick, crap etc) and will not admit they may have been a little harsh in their comments.

Not saying that you are one of those.

Lets hope it is a confidence thing and Saturdays run out will give him a little more.

FWIW i would never boo any Spurs player (heck i didn't even boo Ghaly), our common ground is that we all want the best for Spurs and from time to time we may disagree what that looks like.

Anyway back to the game.

What did everyone think of our new formation? Do you think it was employed to give Sissoko a position more suited to him? Or was the reasoning wider than that and Poch is extending his play book? (Yet again)

 

[Gazza]

Lets hope it is a confidence thing and Saturdays run out will give him a little more.

FWIW i would never boo any Spurs player (heck i didn't even boo Ghaly), our common ground is that we all want the best for Spurs and from time to time we may disagree what that looks like.

Anyway back to the game.

What did everyone think of our new formation? Do you think it was employed to give Sissoko a position more suited to him? Or was the reasoning wider than that and Poch is extending his play book? (Yet again)

Poch extending his play book. Possibly a formation more suited for champions league too.

I love the squad and a manager willing to make educated changes to both personnel and formation.

The current squad can interchange formation so effortlessly, its a joy to watch.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

FWIW I think the whole Sissoko thing is getting boring. We know he can do better. We know his issue has been confidence. Yesterday I saw him getting in to more useful positions than I remember during a match. He's with us this season. Poch is picking him. He will surely continue to improve. He was effective in the system yesterday...he should've buried the header TBF...

I think as much as anything its a forum thing. People polarise and go to either extreme but in reality, say we were having a pint in the pub, would be much more reasonable.

That was easily Sissokos best performance for us. He actually looked part of the team, which is a vast improvement, which can only be a positive thing.

That said, I dont think it is unfair (or incorrect) to point out he was average at best, and the reason it looks so good is that he has previously set such a low bar.

The optimist in me says so what? If he is on an upward trajectory it could be a massive boost for us. Another option for Poch can only be a good thing. And Sissoko has shown he has it in him to really own midfields and damage teams (albeit mostly for France).

The pessimist in me says his vision, touch and technique just arent good enough for him to ever really be a part of a side like ours. And at best he could just be our Feilani style battering sub. That said - your point on confidence - could well explain it all. Honestly Ive not seen enough of him at Saudi Sportswashing Machine to know if his touch etc is usually so bad.

My general point of view is like the old daytime Tv show catchphrase - "Say what you see". I try not to hold views over time. Look at the Kane thread, I wrote him off as a donkey only to be proven spectacularly wrong - and you would not believe just how delighted I was for that to happen!

So if Sissoko keeps defying his previous form and improving, I dont think many here will actually have a problem with it.

The answer is of course, "Holding down a job".

Nor was Siggy for that matter. In the entire second half I don't think I heard his name once. Good investment of £45m.

It surprised me when people wanted us to go back in for him. There is a reason he was sold. NEVER a £45m player, and with Barkley and Rooney in their side I am still trying to work out why Everton were so desperate for him too.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

What did everyone think of our new formation? Do you think it was employed to give Sissoko a position more suited to him? Or was the reasoning wider than that and Poch is extending his play book? (Yet again)

I dont think it was "new" at all.

I think its back to the 3-5-2 we employed through much of last season, and which our transfer activity indicated we would pursue this season.

Dembele maybe wasnt 100% (wouldnt be a surprise) or was perhaps being saved for Dortmund, and Wanyama was injured, so Sissoko was one of few options.

What interested me more was Sanchez being in the centre of the back 3, I had assumed he would be on the right with a licence to roam. Its a shame Everton were so poor in a way, because I dont think we really got to see what he was about. Good on the ball, though "safe" in his decisions (unsurprisingly) and not really tested - so we didnt learn much about him.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Poch extending his play book. Possibly a formation more suited for champions league too.

I love the squad and a manager willing to make educated changes to both personnel and formation.

The current squad can interchange formation so effortlessly, its a joy to watch.

Agree. It really shows Poch puts in the yards on the training ground and the players are like a sponge and have total trust in his ideas and what he has to say.

For all we know, before these changes happen it should have been weeks ago that he'd started to introduce new ideas, safe in the knowledge that the existing system(s) are engrained in the players heads (akin to programming a robot).

It makes me laugh when gooners say 'oh we look a bit better now Wenger has gone 3 at the back'........when it looks to me that he has just done that coz everyone else has, and hoped for the best.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I dont think it was "new" at all.

I think its back to the 3-5-2 we employed through much of last season, and which our transfer activity indicated we would pursue this season.

Dembele maybe wasnt 100% (wouldnt be a surprise) or was perhaps being saved for Dortmund, and Wanyama was injured, so Sissoko was one of few options.

What interested me more was Sanchez being in the centre of the back 3, I had assumed he would be on the right with a licence to roam. Its a shame Everton were so poor in a way, because I dont think we really got to see what he was about. Good on the ball, though "safe" in his decisions (unsurprisingly) and not really tested - so we didnt learn much about him.

It was a diamond, with Dier on his own and dele behind Kane. Sissoko to the right and Eriksen to the left, operating inside the wing backs.

Agree on Sanchez but think it worked well (although hardly tested)......him in the middle protects us from pace and also allows Toby and Jan to push on a little and utilise Jans passing and carrying of the ball and Toby s pinpoint long range game.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Well being honest i was more then surprised when we bought him here ( the price we paid means nothing though and those who use it to have a go at him are wrong imo), he seems to rush things more then he should and shows ( imo) that he may lack confidence. He is strong and has pace but putting him out wide does not suit his game, however playing through the middle suits him and he showed yesterday that he feels more happy there.

I accept that he has not done that well since he has been here, but he has also not been as bad as some make out and no matter what he does they can not wait to say so. Will he ever become a fan favourite? not a chance as so many have made their mind up that he is brick and no matter how he does he will never impress the keyboard warriors or armchair supporters who will not give him any credit when he does play well. The evidence is in this thread, he had a good game yesterday and most of the fans i met during and after the game said the same thing, but he does not seem to be viewed fairly by a section of fans who as i have said have branded him ( brick, crap etc) and will not admit they may have been a little harsh in their comments.

Not saying that you are one of those.

Seen it all before particularly with Mullery and Chivers both were given a rough ride by section of fans and turned out to be legends.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Ive no issue with Sanchez there, it seems to make sense - it was just my expectation was for him to be on the right and less "resonsible" I guess.

I dont think the formation was "new" even as a diamond. We are so fluid that kind of specifics means very little.

Broad strokes, 3 at the back, wingbacks, 3 in the middle, Alli off Kane = very much what we were playing last season. So it wasnt especially novel, IMO.

Sissoko playing central was a surprise, and his pace was an interesting dynamic. Its just a shame he wasnt more effective.

 

[Lemonade Money]

It was a diamond, with Dier on his own and dele behind Kane. Sissoko to the right and Eriksen to the left, operating inside the wing backs.

Agree on Sanchez but think it worked well (although hardly tested)......him in the middle protects us from pace and also allows Toby and Jan to push on a little and utilise Jans passing and carrying of the ball and Toby s pinpoint long range game.

“We knew they might play with three at the back, what we didn’t expect was the trouble their diamond would cause us in midfield,” Ronald Koeman admitted.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

The strength of our system is the interchanging of our players and movement, we look poor when players stay in one area of the pitch and stop the ball, hopefully new players pick this up quickly and keep the fluidity of the team, if I have one concern it's the number of chances we don't take, but it looks like Eriksen is getting into the box a bit more and can help with this.

 

[alekaras]

Ahaha ha we won't always be able to carry a passenger!! Everton are a poor team. Nothing about us making them look poor then? The team that got a point at City and that will finish at least 7th this year? They will beat top 6 teams this season. But of course, we had a passenger and Everton are barely Sunderland standard.

Just so we're clear, my Sanchez criticism above was a joke!!

Your Sanchez criticism was actually spot on. I know you were just making a point, but it was a valid one.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Ive no issue with Sanchez there, it seems to make sense - it was just my expectation was for him to be on the right and less "resonsible" I guess.

I dont think the formation was "new" even as a diamond. We are so fluid that kind of specifics means very little.

Broad strokes, 3 at the back, wingbacks, 3 in the middle, Alli off Kane = very much what we were playing last season. So it wasnt especially novel, IMO.

Sissoko playing central was a surprise, and his pace was an interesting dynamic. Its just a shame he wasnt more effective.

Fully agree we are fluid, moreso than any team in the league. The interesting thing was Dier was left as the single DM, which does give us more flexibility if certain players are injured.

 

[Roland Beurre]

Apparently it was the wrong sort of cross/difficult angle or some BS.

I think it is harsh to criticise him for missing that header.

There are very few sitters in football. It is just not that easy to react to a moving ball, take into account the movement of nearby players (especially the goalkeeper) and get the right contact in the split second you have available. Either that, or Harry Kane decided on Saturday he really did not want a hat-trick as it would not have been fair, given his first goal was clearly meant as a cross, and therefore deliberately blew some good chances.

I think the cause of a lot of the vitriol towards Sissoko is that he often appears incapable of doing things that even we, as paunchy couch potatoes who last kicked a ball in anger when the wife made us try yoga once, feel we could do better were we in the same position. Little things like the two yard lay-off to Deli (was it?) in the area, that he muffed up by treading on the ball, allowing Baines to intervene.

At other times he has done some really well-weighted through balls and visionary passes; perhaps he has triangular feet.

FWIW, I think he is a scary player; sometimes it is the opposition that is scared, and sometimes it is us. He just needs to shift the balance a bit more towards 90/10 and away from 70/30 where it appears to be at present.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

No one is saying he was exceptional. The problem is a Sissoko 6-7/10 gets talked about like it is a 3 or a 4, where even if a small compliment is made it is doused with harsh remarks, nitpicking his performance to an extent that no other player has happen to them, and a determination to downplay anything good he does - we set up to cover for his weakness, he's a passenger we can't avoid to risk on the pitch etc.

When he's been great, I'd say. When he's been terrible, I'd say. But surely when he's been decent, we can say that too without bizarrely holding him to standards that no other play in the squad has to deal with, as if punishment for the fact that one of our players has set out to wrong us personally as fans. We get it, he had some absolute shockers last season, let's all point and laugh at him. Except, he's now doing ok, so can't we be happy with that without reminding everyone that he still isn't Christian Eriksen, because obviously he never will be?

You are the master of hyperbole and verballing! Who has pointed and laughed at him? I haven't even said he was that bad. I'd give him a 6, but given how long he has been at the club, that doesn't represent an acceptable level of performance. I just call it as I see it. When he starts playing to a higher level, more consistently, I will acknowledge it and be very happy for him.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

A couple of seasons ago many on this board were clamouring for Dembele to be sold as "he slowed down our play," but Poch knew better. Last season, several posters were saying "don't buy Wanyama he can't pass more than 5 yards, " but Poch knew better. Posters now say Sissoko he's rubbish, he doesn't fit in our team, he should be sold but guess what? Poch knows better. The problem is that if you are not a ball playing, glamour midfielder a la Hoddle or Modric, many posters do not recognize your value.

For me different opinions are great and they are what make a forum. You don't have to think that Sissoko is particularly good or even like the guy.

But what I find distasteful are the way opinions are put forward, as childish attacks , exaggerated criticisms, glorying in his mistakes.

Whatever else he is. the guy is a SPURS player and deserves more support especially when he is struggling with confidence. What seems clear is that our manager rates him much more than many posters on here and as was the case with Dembele and Wanyama, Poch's judgment tends to be the right one.

People said that because it was true! Over time Poch transformed him and now Dembele is one of the squads better players. But at that time...Dembele was poor, very poor. He held onto the ball too long, made predictable plays, slowed down our tempo and ran down blind alleys. Just because he is playing well now does not allow for a re writing of history.

 

[StephenH]

Sanchez has all the tools now Poch has to show him how to use them properly, covers the ground effortlessly.

Q. Did Gylfi Sigurdsson play on Saturday?

 

[Jordinho]

Sanchez has all the tools now Poch has to show him how to use them properly, covers the ground effortlessly.

Q. Did Gylfi Sigurdsson play on Saturday?

He hit that volley into row Z. Not sure what he did for the remaining 70 minutes.

 

[Robspur12]

People said that because it was true! Over time Poch transformed him and now Dembele is one of the squads better players. But at that time...Dembele was poor, very poor. He held onto the ball too long, made predictable plays, slowed down our tempo and ran down blind alleys. Just because he is playing well now does not allow for a re writing of history.

Your opinion of course. I and several other posters at the time didn't agree having seen his value the season before when we beat Arsenal and Chelsea. But that's another discussion.

 

[scaramanga]

People said that because it was true! Over time Poch transformed him and now Dembele is one of the squads better players. But at that time...Dembele was poor, very poor. He held onto the ball too long, made predictable plays, slowed down our tempo and ran down blind alleys. Just because he is playing well now does not allow for a re writing of history.

Dembele always had basic ball skills though.

As @Roland Beurre stated, Sissoko is capable of making mistakes most of us would struggle to make. Saudi Sportswashing Machine fans will tell you that's not a new thing either.