He is one of these players that no matter what he does everyone will say he did so well. He had a few good moments but was outclassed completely by Bayerns midfield , in fairness he came out to speak to the press where alot of the others hid in the dressing room.
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**Official Other Games Thread, Season 2012/13**
- Thread starter chancer
- Start date
He is one of these players that no matter what he does everyone will say he did so well. He had a few good moments but was outclassed completely by Bayerns midfield , in fairness he came out to speak to the press where alot of the others hid in the dressing room.
mudshark
Chris Armstrong
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Arsenal's best midfielder by some distance I thought. One of their better players.
Second best, like most of Arsenal in the game though. When up against the excellent Schweinsteiger and Martinez in a well organized, well functioning Bayern side whilst himself playing alongside worse players in a worse functioning side that's hardly damning criticism.
Like when he did so well against Barca I had the feeling that him and a Bayern player could have swapped places and the game wouldn't have changed much at all. That's pretty high praise in my book.
I think his stats for the CL this season are in the region of: 7 games, 5 assists, 2.3 key passes per match, 63 average passes per match, 90% pass accuracy. (Heads up, I may be off on those.)
I have a soft spot for full back playmakers as it is, but it was beautiful when I saw the team sheets and knew Lahm was going to affect the match. (I still curse Di Matteo for playing two LBs against Lahm and Robben in the CL final.)
Superted
Jonathan Woodgate
Wheelchair has the easiest job in the Arsenal team. He plays the Vieira role where he just coasts behind the midfield picking up passes then dishing off to others. It may look impressive, but it contributes little.
The difference between Wheelchair and Vieira was that Vieira was such a huge goal threat. Both on set pieces and driving runs. Wheelchair tries the runs and does just okay.
Especially with Bayern 2 goals up so early, there was no pressure on the Arsenal midfield by Bayern. They let Arsenal play.
If he can give a good performance with the scores at 0-0 or winning 1-0, with Bayern having the incentive to press the midfield, then he would deserve credit.
I thought Cazorla and Arteta were better personally.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
In fairness, he is also one of those players who no matter how well he plays, will continue being labelled as average/ over-rated/ having had a poor game by a lot of Spurs games.
Thought he did just about as well as he could have done in that team vs Bayern tbh.
Superted
Jonathan Woodgate
Very good at times, clearly the most talented of the Arse gang based on tonight's game. I have to say I like him as a player, and fear he could become really, really good for them.
Unless he leaves for some other club in order to win trophies!
I'm convinced he's gone. This game was the final straw. He dropped his head at the end because his team mates weren't good enough to be on the end of his sideways passes. If the game went any longer, I could see him getting frustrated and earning himself a red.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
I think you have to factor in his age first of all. He's already good, but he has the potential to get a lot better. Yes he's not as good as Vieira was at his best, for now at least. That's a very high bar though.
I don't think what he does is as easy as you make it out, there's a reason why Arsenal miss him when he's not there. And that's because players like Ramsey and Ateta can't do the job he does. Although I rate Arteta his job is easier imo than what Wheelchair does.
Bayern did sit back a bit, but playing against Schweinsteiger and Martinez is nowhere near easy. And Wheelchair out of him, Arteta and Ramsey was to me clearly the one who looked most likely to create something.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
What's your point?
Last season they had that Dutch fella up front... Robin something...
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
I dont think they look any different without Wheelchair. A glorified Leon Britton.
Spurs7891
Jermaine Jenas
Forget it. Bayern Munich will never redeem themselves no matter what they do in future. Bayern Munich just don't deserve any respect for the way they lost the CL final in 1999 and last season. When it comes to playing in the Final, Bayern Munich are the biggest bottlers in Europe. If this had been the Final, Arsenal would have beaten them hands down.
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
Germany have been big big bottlers since 97 onwards. National team have been to numerous semi finals and finals and lost. Clubs have been to finals and lost
raboner
Banned
This! Overrated vile little prick. The praise he gets on this board and abroad is unfathomable at times.
Thoroughly enjoyed the game last night - high tempo, end-to-end, attacking stuff - very entertaining. Martinez looks every cent they paid for him, what a player.
In addition - plenty to take 'home' for our NLD preparation - Heynkes did his homework well, all 3 goals came from Arsenal's inferior left side - we need to capitalise on that at all costs.
Furthermore - Parker needs to man-mark Wheelchair whenever possible, he's in excellent form and generates pretty much every dangerous movement in their final third. Dawson to deal with Giroud's physicality. He's a little erratic but offers a good shot and we need to close him down quickly around the box
To conclude - can't see Arsenal scoring 3 un-answered goals in Munich - so hopefully 4th would be good enough this year!
In addition - plenty to take 'home' for our NLD preparation - Heynkes did his homework well, all 3 goals came from Arsenal's inferior left side - we need to capitalise on that at all costs.
Furthermore - Parker needs to man-mark Wheelchair whenever possible, he's in excellent form and generates pretty much every dangerous movement in their final third. Dawson to deal with Giroud's physicality. He's a little erratic but offers a good shot and we need to close him down quickly around the box
To conclude - can't see Arsenal scoring 3 un-answered goals in Munich - so hopefully 4th would be good enough this year!
That wasn't homework, that was a flashing neon sign saying "queue here for goals".
I agree though, Bayern's style of defending counter attacks was amazing. Wiped out Arsenal's biggest threat in one fell swoop. That part of his homework was done very well.
For the record though, Monreal will play lb when we play Arsenal, not Vermaelen. We are beyond unfortunate there, he hasn't been tested in an Arsenal shirt and will play Villa next who probably won't test him either. That said, I'm sure you've seen him for Malaga, he's not bad. (Arsenal still don't track runners though, Blackburn's goal came from Walcott failing to track on the right and Podolski often fails to track on the left.)
Wenger has given no sign that he'd play anything other than Arteta, Wheelchair and Cazorla in Arsenal's standard triangle. Cazorla will usually be at the offensive point, if you try to man mark one of the triangle they tilt the base. They've been using that thing for years.
Try to make their passer and they make their passer their DM and their DM their passer... Try to mark their AM and they make their passer or DM their AM. (This was easier to explain when Song was DM.)
If you simply mean "get near him when he enters X zone" then that's fair enough, but I'd rather Dembele did it, Parker gets dribbled lots. His best quality is his energy, so Parker may as well be left to run between many players while Dembele takes Wheelchair... The thing is, Cazorla needs watching too, Arteta also needs a man on him. If Arteta is allowed to pass, bad things happen.
Still, I trust AVB, generally if pressed Arsenal implode. We may have a match that's an exception, but I'd be quite happy to let Cheesy and Mertesacker try to start Arsenal attacks whenever Arsenal have the ball, because Arsenal can't find a way forward, that'd be funny and rewarding.
We're going to miss Kaboul, Kaboul is our best CB at aerial duels... One of the best CBs in the league last season at aerial duels, maybe the best statistically. We're also going to miss his pace. Our style requires a higher line than people usually play against Walcott, if we have problems from him I'll be depressed.
This post is dampening my mood, I've been looking forward to the NLD for months, I just hate thinking about it from a tactical point of view because in theory Arsenal have a chance and I like my non tactical view of "they haven't beaten us at WHL for years, they haven't done the double over us for years, we'll win because we're the better team, etc"... Nice, but ultimately doesn't allow for red cards, penalties, individual errors, Arsenal doing their usual thing where they remember how to play and then forget for 6 months when the final whistle blows.
Still, a fit Bale in his current form is going to give them a whole host of problems to deal with. Arsenal can't defend counter attacks, Arsenal make individual errors all the time... Add Bale into the factors they have to consider and we'll probably see another brilliant display of Arsenal ignoring opposition threats in the blind faith that his team can win their way without any attempt at a tactical approach to dealing with the opposition team. (He usually only gets as far as Mertesacker to play if he needs a tall CB.)
But that's why today worried me. Wenger doesn't usually believe his side isn't good enough to win... Especially at home.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
I agree, very good showing. This Bayern team is looking very good and must be among the favourites to win the CL. Another couple of classy signings in the summer and if Pep can prove himself to be as good as his reputation and they could be the favourite to win it next season.
Martinez looks oustanding in deed. Him alongside Schweinsteiger is a fantastic central midfield duo. Would be very interesting to see the two of them up against the Real or Barca midfields at some point this tournament.
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
Mainly due to Vermaelen playing left back I imagine. Monreal is 10x the full back.