Official Kabooooooom Thread

[El Dante]

The perfect balance with Vertonghen. I'd offer him a new contract now. Don't want to risk losing him on a free when he starts to really impress people.

 

[mjc23]

I do like Dawson and happy to have him in the squad, but in terms of quality it has to be Kaboul and Vertonghen every time. Have so much more confidence with them together.

 

[africanspurs]

errrm , he had a good game...a very good one in fact.

dawson has been consistently part of a strong defense for how many seasons now?

maybe if Kaboul has that level of performance for more than a few games..then hey....we can say dawson should get benched

 

[Hully]

We looked anything but solid at the back last night, it's the right partnership, but neither looks fully match fit yet. They were good but not great. Only a brilliant performance from Lloris kept them out.
Good to get a game under their belts, hopefully this partnership will continue and in time become the solid basis the team needs.

 

[milo]

I really hope that they can continue to play together in the big games for the rest of the season. Put Sandro in front of them and we should start to look pretty solid.

 

[braineclipse]

Bump...

Been missing for a couple of games, but I thought Kaboooooooom looked excellent against Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Ok, it was a **** Saudi Sportswashing Machine side, but he was just what we needed. including a couple of excellent involvements one on one defensively where I think it would have been much more likely that Dawson had been left for dead had he started.

Hope he can keep fit now, would be a massive bonus.

We looked anything but solid at the back last night, it's the right partnership, but neither looks fully match fit yet. They were good but not great. Only a brilliant performance from Lloris kept them out.
Good to get a game under their belts, hopefully this partnership will continue and in time become the solid basis the team needs.

Did you think either centre back was at fault for any of the chances that Lloris had to (brilliantly) save?

I didn't think so at the time, but haven't seen those situations again since the game or seen people point fingers.

 

[braineclipse]

errrm , he had a good game...a very good one in fact.

dawson has been consistently part of a strong defense for how many seasons now?

maybe if Kaboul has that level of performance for more than a few games..then hey....we can say dawson should get benched

Dawson has been a consistent part of an inconsistent defense more or less whenever he's been playing regularly for us.

Didn't Dawson already get benched against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, was a pretty clear signal in my mind at least that Vertonghen and Kaboul is the preferred partnership when both are fit (ignoring Chiriches for now).

 

[papaspur]

Needed to get him a full 90 minutes to work up match fitness, and on the other hand give Dawson a rest. I don't think this means Dawson has moved down the pecking order (just yet).

 

[braineclipse]

Needed to get him a full 90 minutes to work up match fitness, and on the other hand give Dawson a rest. I don't think this means Dawson has moved down the pecking order (just yet).

Important away league game...

Could have waited a week and given Kaboul the 90 minutes against Dnipro and another 90 in the return leg if we wanted to. Not like we've had a super packed schedule in the weeks leading up to the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game either.

Might be that Dawson was feeling an injury or was feeling slightly under the weather so Sherwood didn't want to risk him. I think it's just as likely at least that Kaboul was just preferred. And after that performance I would be surprised (borderline shocked) if he doesn't keep his place against Norwich if fit.

 

[billyiddo]

it was a great game from him, will be a big plus for the run in (and beyond) if he can put his problems behind him

 

[papaspur]

I'll keep my fingers crossed as well, would much rather see a 100% Kaboul than Dawson. Seeing him fight it out with Santon on the right wing was pretty priceless.

 

[Huddy]

Saw this thread bumped, came in expecting news of a 3 month injury, left glad he's still fit.

 

[Superhudd]

Kaboooom is Mr February on the club calendar.. I don't know why I have just shared this info.

 

[africanspurs]

Dawson has been a consistent part of an inconsistent defense more or less whenever he's been playing regularly for us.

Didn't Dawson already get benched against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, was a pretty clear signal in my mind at least that Vertonghen and Kaboul is the preferred partnership when both are fit (ignoring Chiriches for now).

cant disagree with that first statement more.

i think that over the years , of which dawson has started at the back a lions share, we have been a pretty strong defensively , so much so that it was always on offense that we focused our purchases on

i cant even begin to imagine why anyone would think our defensive displays have been inconsistent outside of the periods when the entire team suffered crisis of confidence under various managers

and an isolated event of dawson getting dropped in favour of kaboul after we played a game the sunday previously doesnt prove or show me anything that concrete or clear. Of course you CAN look at it like that as a clear signal but i wouldnt....i think i'd need more selections of that calibre when everyone is fit and not playing 2 games in the space of 84 hours odd.....for the next 5 games or so

 

[Cochise]

We know that Kaboul has been back in training for well over a month though, so it wasn't like he was being rushed back.

 

[braineclipse]

cant disagree with that first statement more.

i think that over the years , of which dawson has started at the back a lions share, we have been a pretty strong defensively , so much so that it was always on offense that we focused our purchases on

i cant even begin to imagine why anyone would think our defensive displays have been inconsistent outside of the periods when the entire team suffered crisis of confidence under various managers

and an isolated event of dawson getting dropped in favour of kaboul after we played a game the sunday previously doesnt prove or show me anything that concrete or clear. Of course you CAN look at it like that as a clear signal but i wouldnt....i think i'd need more selections of that calibre when everyone is fit and not playing 2 games in the space of 84 hours odd.....for the next 5 games or so

Woodgate, Kaboul, Bassong, Gallas, Vertonghen and Chiriches off the top of my head. Other than Chiriches (so far) most have made themselves first choice players as well (in Bassong's case before later being dropped), I know someone in another thread pointed out that it's a squad game and all that. Manager after manager has looked for Dawson replacements/upgrades and several have been found. Dawson has remained as he (like Defoe) has found his ceiling and only smaller clubs were after him. He's been happy to be a squad player most of the time and he's been a good servant for the club stepping in when we've had injuries.

84 hours now... Sorry, but our fixture list has been fairly standard in recent week and has in no way necessitated centre back rotation. If anything Dawson should have been favoured for consistency and with Kaboul returning from injury I was a bit surprised to see him start. I'm guessing he's done well in training and he looked a level above Dawson against Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Good decision by Sherwood I say.

Like I said, could be that Dawson was feeling an injury or feeling unwell. It's possible. I think Kaboul's been preferred to Dawson just about whenever fit since he returned from Portmouth because he's the better player, but we'll just have to wait an see what Sherwood thinks about it I suppose.

Do you think it would be a good decision by Sherwood to drop Kaboul and start Dawson against Norwich if both are fit? Looks like a pretty bad decision to me.

 

[africanspurs]

Woodgate, Kaboul, Bassong, Gallas, Vertonghen and Chiriches off the top of my head. Other than Chiriches (so far) most have made themselves first choice players as well (in Bassong's case before later being dropped), I know someone in another thread pointed out that it's a squad game and all that. Manager after manager has looked for Dawson replacements/upgrades and several have been found. Dawson has remained as he (like Defoe) has found his ceiling and only smaller clubs were after him. He's been happy to be a squad player most of the time and he's been a good servant for the club stepping in when we've had injuries.

84 hours now... Sorry, but our fixture list has been fairly standard in recent week and has in no way necessitated centre back rotation. If anything Dawson should have been favoured for consistency and with Kaboul returning from injury I was a bit surprised to see him start. I'm guessing he's done well in training and he looked a level above Dawson against Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Good decision by Sherwood I say.

Like I said, could be that Dawson was feeling an injury or feeling unwell. It's possible. I think Kaboul's been preferred to Dawson just about whenever fit since he returned from Portmouth because he's the better player, but we'll just have to wait an see what Sherwood thinks about it I suppose.

Do you think it would be a good decision by Sherwood to drop Kaboul and start Dawson against Norwich if both are fit? Looks like a pretty bad decision to me.

All those defenders that came off the top of your head either

played with King...,
Partnered Dawson,
Lost their spot to dawson

all under various managers

all those defenders were also bought as a necessity to make sure we have FOUR capable Cbs ready to play....,

Can you explain how you can be sure they were bought to replace dawson? and also can you explain how many replacements have been found seeing as how dawson ended up being first choice most of the time

As you said, this being a squad game the liklehood of us going out there and purchasing all these players may just be infact to bolster our squad due to

chronic injuries to naybet,
a woodgate insurance
Dodgy knee King

kaboul bought for the squad and possibly to replace king...came in and ended up at RB for a while...if he was here to replace dawson he would have and we would never have seen hide nor hair of dawson
Gallas bought for the squad and a utility player
Chiriches bought for the squad
woody bought to play with King..yes woodgate is better than dawson
bassong bought for the squad
verts bought for the first team and despite dawsons limitations for raw speed we ended up with a dawson and vertonghen partnership

but despite what looked from outside as us padding out the squad with Cbs and almost always eventually ending up with dawson plus 1...aside from the king / wooddate era....what you know is that manager after manager have been desperately trying to find someone to replace dawson, who doesnt get replaced by the way when the dust settles, and have successfully found these players who end up on the bench or get moved along

i dont agree with that

Disagree that dawson comes in primarily for injuries, infact dawson before lost his place cause HE got injured and his replacement played well. which is the way it should be.

we played on sunday and then we had another game on wednesday......capoue came in, dembele got moved, we dropped soldado, naughton played (was rose injured?)..that wasnt his usual starting 11 and chances are that he made changes for a reason and utilised the squad he had. In an isolated incident...one of which is not enough to say whether or not dawson has been dropped...i personally need more than one game that came in 3 and half days...you by all means can make do with just the one and hit the assumption - conclusion button that Kaboul aced it in training....which at least should always validate the players selected in your eyes cause each one of them must have done the same to get selected irrespective of rest or how many games they have played this season ...by all means each to his own

and kaboul has not been ahead of dawson whenever fit...kaboul has played next to dawson sure and initially it was kaboul and verts but i am pretty sure there were prolonged periods of the season when kaboul was infact fit and dawson was still ahead....can someone confirm or dispute this either way? i actually wouldnt mind knowing if dawson has just been living on borrowed time

tim sherwood can do what he likes, there is a merit in both choices, i personally like to reward a performance so i would play kaboul, i do not though agree with the notion that potentially resting your captain and then playing him the game after in place of his back up is a poor or bad decision.

 

[braineclipse]

All those defenders that came off the top of your head either

played with King...,
Partnered Dawson,
Lost their spot to dawson

all under various managers

all those defenders were also bought as a necessity to make sure we have FOUR capable Cbs ready to play....,

Can you explain how you can be sure they were bought to replace dawson? and also can you explain how many replacements have been found seeing as how dawson ended up being first choice most of the time

As you said, this being a squad game the liklehood of us going out there and purchasing all these players may just be infact to bolster our squad due to

chronic injuries to naybet,
a woodgate insurance
Dodgy knee King

kaboul bought for the squad and possibly to replace king...came in and ended up at RB for a while...if he was here to replace dawson he would have and we would never have seen hide nor hair of dawson
Gallas bought for the squad and a utility player
Chiriches bought for the squad
woody bought to play with King..yes woodgate is better than dawson
bassong bought for the squad
verts bought for the first team and despite dawsons limitations for raw speed we ended up with a dawson and vertonghen partnership

but despite what looked from outside as us padding out the squad with Cbs and almost always eventually ending up with dawson plus 1...aside from the king / wooddate era....what you know is that manager after manager have been desperately trying to find someone to replace dawson, who doesnt get replaced by the way when the dust settles, and have successfully found these players who end up on the bench or get moved along

i dont agree with that

Disagree that dawson comes in primarily for injuries, infact dawson before lost his place cause HE got injured and his replacement played well. which is the way it should be.

we played on sunday and then we had another game on wednesday......capoue came in, dembele got moved, we dropped soldado, naughton played (was rose injured?)..that wasnt his usual starting 11 and chances are that he made changes for a reason and utilised the squad he had. In an isolated incident...one of which is not enough to say whether or not dawson has been dropped...i personally need more than one game that came in 3 and half days...you by all means can make do with just the one and hit the assumption - conclusion button that Kaboul aced it in training....which at least should always validate the players selected in your eyes cause each one of them must have done the same to get selected irrespective of rest or how many games they have played this season ...by all means each to his own

and kaboul has not been ahead of dawson whenever fit...kaboul has played next to dawson sure and initially it was kaboul and verts but i am pretty sure there were prolonged periods of the season when kaboul was infact fit and dawson was still ahead....can someone confirm or dispute this either way? i actually wouldnt mind knowing if dawson has just been living on borrowed time

tim sherwood can do what he likes, there is a merit in both choices, i personally like to reward a performance so i would play kaboul, i do not though agree with the notion that potentially resting your captain and then playing him the game after in place of his back up is a poor or bad decision.

All those defenders lost their place to Dawson? I almost stopped reading at that point...

Woodgate, Gallas and Kaboul only lost their place because of injuries or because of getting too old. Gallas walked into the side when we signed him on a free.

Vertonghen obviously hasn't lost his place to Dawson and it's too soon to tell with Chiriches. The only one who out and out lost his place because he was found not good enough was Bassong.

Kaboul played right back in a couple of games because of injuries.

I'm quite sure the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game was the first league game Kaboul and Vertonghen started together. It wasn't "Kaboul and Vertonghen initially", Kaboul got injured in his first game last season and stayed out for the rest of the season. Ask others if you want, but I would be very surprised if you or anyone could point me towards any "prolonged periods" where Kaboul was fit and not used because of Dawson last season (or previous seasons for that matter).

We had a game Sunday then Wednesday. Before that our previous game was a week earlier. Do you really think it's commonplace to rotate or rest centre backs because of that kind of fixture list? I don't.

 

[africanspurs]

All those defenders lost their place to Dawson? I almost stopped reading at that point...

i really think you should, i'll be giving my post another skim , maybe a couple more reads as it seems you without fail NEVER appear to read it as properly as i would like, it might be a think where i have to post shorter due to the amount of time either of us have to read a reply to these things. I take responsibility as when i reply to your stuff i know i end up putting out fires started by a phantom then the one i actually intend to start. Its fatiguing a bit and it takes away from the point i try to put across

but like i said, maybe i am not reading my post well enough....maybe i did say that "All", which you have highlighted in bold, as in every last one of those including a supreme defender in woodgate lost their places to dawson

Woodgate, Gallas and Kaboul only lost their place because of injuries or because of getting too old. Gallas walked into the side when we signed him on a free.

I dont think kaboul did. woodgate and gallas are both better defenders than dawson but gallas is a partner to dawson , not his direct style competitor. Dawson would have lost his place to woodgate or king....and i dont remember us playing a kaboul / gallas partenrship often..if at all. also not to mention i dont remember a gallas bassong either? If dawson has someone better than he then by all means it would be okay to play him ahead of dawson and use dawson as a utility player.,...who would still be a very good defensive team

Vertonghen obviously hasn't lost his place to Dawson and it's too soon to tell with Chiriches. The only one who out and out lost his place because he was found not good enough was Bassong.

I dont even think bassong lost his place as such as opposed to he also had a period where someone else played well while he was out and then he didnt get back in...for all intents and purposes bassong was also part of a strong line up

Chiriches ? he hasnt done anything to even remotely suggest he has taken dawsons place. Not to mention that between the ears dawson is a better defender than him anyway.

The irony of it being 'too soon' to tell with chiriches but after one game with kaboul coming in....its clear indicative proof of sorts.

Kaboul played right back in a couple of games because of injuries.

i think this might be right tbf...i get the feeling that he was forced there but for some reason i think we had other options...just that the team worked better than moving kaboul to replace dawson and playing chimbonda in there for instance

I'm quite sure the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game was the first league game Kaboul and Vertonghen started together. It wasn't "Kaboul and Vertonghen initially", Kaboul got injured in his first game last season and stayed out for the rest of the season. Ask others if you want, but I would be very surprised if you or anyone could point me towards any "prolonged periods" where Kaboul was fit and not used because of Dawson last season (or previous seasons for that matter).

it was kaboul and verts in pre-season through and through. it seemed that was the first choice set up. and then the injury...and then dawson came in and stayed.

i cant remember the time line of kabouls injuries but i seem to remember that kaboul was an option but didnt get picked

We had a game Sunday then Wednesday. Before that our previous game was a week earlier. Do you really think it's commonplace to rotate or rest centre backs because of that kind of fixture list? I don't.

it doesnt matter what you or i think. but the fact of the matter is that dawson has been playing all season and there were two games in close succession and kaboul came in for dawson. I dont see why that proves in an isolated situation one thing as opposed to something else?

why cant it be that kaboul needs a run out? or dawson needs a rest?
its not like the game the week before is part of a long string of games that brings about a cumulative effect on fatigue as though each game resets your engines to 100%...Dude has been playing since August?

i actually dont know what else to say on this thing, think my position is pretty clear and yours too for that matter

 

[africanspurs]

yep just re-read my post

"All those defenders that came off the top of your head either

played with King...,
Partnered Dawson,
Lost their spot to dawson"

so the bit in bold got chopped off and the remaining statement became my stance.

I feel like i talked to the papers :lol:

think i've dedicated all the time i have available on this one unfortunately

fill your boots