Official - Defoe

[totman]

^from my position Bale had all the time in the word to play the ball earlier - he wanted to burst through and score himself and only passed when he knew that was a no goer.

Nail on head. There is no other way to describe it.....shame for us that the pass was also a no goer by that stage

 

[ArcspacE]

Billy - if Bale played the ball earlier - Defoe still had to outrun Lescott? and beat Hart one on one whereas in the end Bale pulled the one defender (Savic?) and the keeper with with him and played a ball into and empty goal for JD to tap in

Potato. Potatoe

 

[totman]

I think Defoe would have a better chance with a one on one, the ball at his feet rather than having to stretch for an over hit, misplaced pass

 

[africanspurs]

Not at all.

He wasn't playing a supporting striker role, he wasn't even playing as an attacking midfielder. He was playing a deeper role and did so well. One overly ambitious strike from range doesn't change that.

VdV, Modric and Parker kept our midfield tight and denied City space to play. There were around 3 instances (that I remember) where City found a lot of space between our midfield and attack while VdV was on the pitch, one of them lead to the goal. Other than that our midfield was solid and doing it's job. VdV ran himself into the ground covering space, getting back and doing his job. He also tried offensively, but it didn't really come off. Not down to him at all though, we lacked a focal point up front and both Bale and Lennon had average days going forward. He wasn't as good as Modric who was excellent, but an all round good, solid, mature performance.

That to me is a mature performance. Not sure what some of you expected from him? His normal supporting role up alongside the striker? Clearly not the role Harry wanted him to play and imo clearly not what we needed from him on the day.

thing is though, for me, this is how i see VDV playing all the time (save for a few games where he really focuses on the attacking third.

but yesterday i agree that it was necessary to have him deeper and he was disciplined

 

[braineclipse]

thing is though, for me, this is how i see VDV playing all the time (save for a few games where he really focuses on the attacking third.

but yesterday i agree that it was necessary to have him deeper and he was disciplined

Defensively I disagree. Yesterday we lined up in what was a very clear 4-1-4-1. Normally VdV has a lot more freedom to stay further up the pitch, ahead of the ball even when we are organized at the back. Yesterday he was clearly told to get behind the ball.

Attackingly, perhaps. But his disciplined defensive play meant that his starting position was often deeper, along with our lacking hold up play (apart from the opening 20 minutes) meant that VdV was in a deeper position than normally imo. Sure, he drops deep at times in every game, often swapping positions with Modric temporarily, but from what I could see his overall position was deeper against City than in most games.

 

[Shropshire Yid]

The reason the VDV comes deep is because it allows Bale and Lennon to effectively 'cheat' and push higher up the pitch and stay higher, so more of the 4-3-3 rathere than a 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 formation
Also I think Harry has given our players a lot of free reign and we dont play a set shape when we have the ball, just off the ball we need people in areas

 

[billyiddo]

Billy - if Bale played the ball earlier - Defoe still had to outrun Lescott? and beat Hart one on one whereas in the end Bale pulled the one defender (Savic?) and the keeper with with him and played a ball into and empty goal for JD to tap in

Potato. Potatoe

I think that he should have curled a pass for defoe to run on to leaving him one on one with the keeper

 

[spasm]

the early ball would have been better...but i am not criticizing..he scored a sublime goal and at times looked our most potent threat..we lacked fluidity because we were missing adebayor. they tried their best and almost pulled it off.

 

[Mumorn]

For me, I give Defoe a round of applause. He and we all know he is not a striker to play up front alone. But I thought he worked his absolute socks off yesterday. He does what he does best and got on the end of a defensive mistake and to then round Hart and finish was just brilliant from him. I thought he gave Lescott and Savic a torrid time when he actually had the ball, it's just the shame whenever he was near the goal it was just HIM near the goal, no one else in sight.

 

[mick cooper]

ive seen the replays mate, i think he could have passed earlier even after his first touch he could have curled a pass in to Defoe's run - it wasn't easy, the defender done well from the position he was in. the eventual pass was a yard or two in front of where it should have been - it's harsh to blame either and that's not what im trying to do - but of the two it was the pass more than the run which was to blame

and Mick - sorry fella, but i think you are letting your need to defend Defoe from GB cloud your judgment - Defoe was poor today -without the goal no one would be saying he played well he offered nothing up top over the 90 mins - he worked hard and done as much as i expected him too - it is not his fault that we played him as a lone striker which is not a position he can play well in, but that doesn't mean he gave a good performance. he gave the ball away countless times and rarely got in a position to stretch their defense - again im not trying to criticize him as a player - he was played in a role where he would never excel - he worked hard and im not faulting him for effort, but the quality wasn't there

no - I'm satisfied that my judgement is fairly clear. Defoe spent most of his time in possession alone and isolated, the fact that he didn't retain possession or complete passes does not surprise me in the slightest. Your comment indicates that you believe him to have poor control or is a bad passer, none of which is true. I firmly believe that Ade would have done a better job of hold up play, because he's better at it - but he was never going to play, and there aren't many Ade's in the game (probably why they paid him 225K a week) so he was all we had.
I assumed that Rafa was supposed to link play between M/F and Defoe, yet he was never there for him, Bale has gone from man with a mission to minister without portfolio and both were found wanting when they were needed the most.

I do defend Defoe - but not because I'm an obsessional fanboy, but simply because I hate to see players slated because of ignorance. In the same manner I hate to see players over amped, when they don't possess the skills that they are alleged to have - hence my comments about Livermore, who I believe to be solid and industrious, but a long way from the game changing inspiration that we needed when he came on. JL is a safe player, he does everything thats safe, we needed a bit of magic, Bale eventually obliged.

 

[spurspinter1]

For me, I give Defoe a round of applause. He and we all know he is not a striker to play up front alone. But I thought he worked his absolute socks off yesterday. He does what he does best and got on the end of a defensive mistake and to then round Hart and finish was just brilliant from him. I thought he gave Lescott and Savic a torrid time when he actually had the ball, it's just the shame whenever he was near the goal it was just HIM near the goal, no one else in sight.

Pretty much this.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

For me, I give Defoe a round of applause. He and we all know he is not a striker to play up front alone. But I thought he worked his absolute socks off yesterday. He does what he does best and got on the end of a defensive mistake and to then round Hart and finish was just brilliant from him. I thought he gave Lescott and Savic a torrid time when he actually had the ball, it's just the shame whenever he was near the goal it was just HIM near the goal, no one else in sight.

Well said

 

[NaijaSpurs]

I do defend Defoe - but not because I'm an obsessional fanboy, but simply because I hate to see players slated because of ignorance. In the same manner I hate to see players over amped, when they don't possess the skills that they are alleged to have - hence my comments about Livermore, who I believe to be solid and industrious, but a long way from the game changing inspiration that we needed when he came on. JL is a safe player, he does everything thats safe, we needed a bit of magic, Bale eventually obliged.

Well VDV started and he had ample time to be inspirational and create some magic. You cannot replace Livermore with VDV and expect magic. We had just brought it back to 2:2 and I think the change was just made to keep it tight and hold out for the draw. Maybe VDV should have taken a leaf from Silva yesterday

 

[mick cooper]

Well VDV started and he had ample time to be inspirational and create some magic. You cannot replace Livermore with VDV and expect magic. We had just brought it back to 2:2 and I think the change was just made to keep it tight and hold out for the draw. Maybe VDV should have taken a leaf from Silva yesterday

HR stated that we were going there to attack and win the game, my disappointment was that putting on Livermore was not a message that said he intended to keep the promise.

 

[totman]

Defoe's goals with Ade
Wolves
Liverpool
Saudi Sportswashing Machine (after coming on for VDV)
Fulham (after coming on for VDV)
WBA (a)
Bolton
WBA (h)


VDV's goals with and Ade
Wigan
Arsenal (NOTE: All three played and JD had a major part in the build up to VDVs goal, with Ade assisting)
Saudi Sportswashing Machine (Penalty)
Blackburn (2)
QPR
Swansea

Ade's goals with VDV
Villa (2)
Stoke (Penalty)
Chelsea

Ade's goals with Defoe
Wolves (both scored)
Liverpool (both scored)
WBA (2 goals, and both scored)
Stoke (Penalty: Note, Defoe played 2nd half when penalty was conceded by Modric)



Just take these stats as the are. They are not pro or anti either player. Both are very important to us.

BUT, to say that Defoe is not good enough to play instead of VDV as an option is laughable, when he has the same amount of PL goals, in less game time, and has a better strike partnership rate with Ade.

Ade and VDV have yet both to score in one game.

 

[MarkFalco]

I'd go with Defoe + Ade up top vs Wigan for sure

 

[africanspurs]

Defensively I disagree. Yesterday we lined up in what was a very clear 4-1-4-1. Normally VdV has a lot more freedom to stay further up the pitch, ahead of the ball even when we are organized at the back. Yesterday he was clearly told to get behind the ball.

Attackingly, perhaps. But his disciplined defensive play meant that his starting position was often deeper, along with our lacking hold up play (apart from the opening 20 minutes) meant that VdV was in a deeper position than normally imo. Sure, he drops deep at times in every game, often swapping positions with Modric temporarily, but from what I could see his overall position was deeper against City than in most games.

i agree in part with this. i dont mean to say that defensively VDV is as apparent in the defensive third as he was on sunday. i'm just saying that he spends a considerable amount of time NOT supporting the front man as much as he should to lighten the burden of the lone striker.

he does have more freedom and license than he did on sunday but even with that he still ventures everywhere to get or touch the ball, almost like an impatient child at times

still, i would rather have him playing for us than against us no question. a testament to his natural ability

 

[Spaceman]

HR stated that we were going there to attack and win the game, my disappointment was that putting on Livermore was not a message that said he intended to keep the promise.

what a load of gonads. vdv had a very quiet game and was clearly knackered when he came off. having been 2-0 away to the league leaders that sub made sense at 2-2. it was livermore who put bale through at the end

 

[monkeybarry]

HR stated that we were going there to attack and win the game, my disappointment was that putting on Livermore was not a message that said he intended to keep the promise.

i think the first 20 mins of the 2nd half the game became very stretched and open, and having just got back to 2-2 it seemed sensible to try and get more control of the MF (parker - modric - livermore) and exploit City using the pace and width we are so good at hurting teams with, especially as the game goes on and teams get more tired.

and we were 2 inches away from that working too

 

[mick cooper]

what a load of gonads. vdv had a very quiet game and was clearly knackered when he came off. having been 2-0 away to the league leaders that sub made sense at 2-2. it was livermore who put bale through at the end

well lets face it pal, talking gonads is par for the course for you, so you would see it everywhere

I'll discuss if you can be pleasant - but if you can't - just do one, alright?