That's bollox. So just white people wearing the tshirts then?? Not getting the message across really is it??
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O/T Kick Racism Out Of Football boycott
- Thread starter chicken_badge
- Start date
That's bollox. So just white people wearing the tshirts then?? Not getting the message across really is it??
DHSF
Les Ferdinand
It is alot better but I think we are all going over board about all this about there still being a major issue etc. What happened with JT and AF should now just be let go and finished Learn from those lessons. They have been exposes which would make anyone think twice about uttering anything.
What happened in Serbia was a disgrace but i will go as far as to say it isnt a football thing - its a cultural thing. Its not and should not be a 'kick racism out of football' movement but more a 'kick racism out of CULTURE' movement. Its way bigger than football.
you can wear all the t shirts you want but if racism etc is not taught at an educational level i.e. people in schools etc and particularly in those aforementioned countries then basically it will always be experienced.
Leeds Spur
Banned
No tshirts by anyone. It's just empty platitudes anyway. When the authorities have had the chance to act they've bottled it so the whole thing is meaningless.
Gordinho
Banned
I think the second paragraph of your post contradicts the first. In short it appears that you're saying that they're too small to have any impact but gawd bless 'em their heart's in the right place and they're giving it a go.
I'll answer your second question with a question, do you think a player of any skin colour should be made to wear the shirt of an irrelevant organisation? Putting on a tee shirt and pretending everything in the garden is rosy when it obviously isn't just doesn't cut it with me.
You can apply everything I've said about Kick It Out to the Respect campaign as well. The reason why support for England has died off is because most of the players we see in England shirts have no concept of respect, not even for themselves let alone others, so why if I think a bloke is a despicable human being when he has a Chelsea shirt on (yes, you Cole you piece of 5hit) am I going to support him when he has an England shirt on? More and more people I meet are coming to the same opinion as me and where they used to fanatically support club & country the now fanatically support club and taking a passing interest in country.
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jts1882
Dean Richards
Not at all. I'm saying they are small and can play a part (second paragraph), but can't blame them for not solving the problem (first paragraph).
I don't think a player should be forced to, but if there is a team decision to do so they should go along with it in the spirit of being part of the team. So Fergie is right to be upset with Fergie unless Rio told him in advance. The team should go out dressed the same regardless, normal kit, tracksuit, tee-shirt, mankini and top-hat, whatever is the choice of the day.
I'd agree that "putting on a tee shirt and pretending everything in the garden is rosy when it obviously isn't" would be a waste of everybody's time. But logically they cannot be doing so. If they thought everything was rosy they wouldn't be wearing the tee shirts in the first place. They are wearing them because they don't think everything is rosy and that more should be done.
However, hopefully people aren't wearing them and think that is all that needs to be done, as then they would be counterproductive.
Gordinho
Banned
I think we'll have to cordially agree to disagree on this one, I think Jason Roberts has achieved more in his actions than anything KIO have in how many years? Rio Ferdinand followed suit today and according to Old Whiskey Face, Ferdinand's action was "embarrassing for me, however, he'll be dealt with, don't worry about that", what a fudging liberty eh? A player making a considered ethical judgement on the matter. Still I'd have a little more respect for Ferdinand if he wasn't a drugs cheat who constantly verbally abuses the match officials while wearing a Respect badge on his shirt, maybe more players should make an ethical stand and not wear the Respect badges either.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Agree totally.
NaijaSpurs
Les Ferdinand
Yeah fined then 40,000 euros, what the fudge is that about? To quote Drogba "it is a fudging disgrace"
Leeds Spur
Banned
Rio should tell whiskey nose to fudge himself
jts1882
Dean Richards
I'm sure Jason Roberts has done a lot to further his media career with his actions.
It's impossible to judge what influence KIO have had over the years. One thing we do know is that the FA has taken a strong stance over the Suarez and Terry incidents, even standing up to a England manager who considered his authority more important than opposing racism. Without such organisations keeping racism in the foreground, do you think the FA would be taking action. Obviously we can't attribute everything to KIO but equally its unfair to dismiss them as totally ineffective.
Tackling racism is something that takes everyone to work together. Its one thing for Jason Roberst or Rio Ferdinand to think KIO are ineffective or not doing enough, but its a different one to undermine their efforts when they have league wide backing for a particular action. People can disagree about the approach to take, but they can take a neutral stance on actions they don't agree with rather than a critical one. It would be much more effective if Jason Roberts used his media time to say what more should be done rather than making it about him not wearing a tee-shirt.
A downside of Jason Roberts' actions will be that some people will use his dismissal of KIO as ineffective to generalise about the whole campaign about racism being political madness gone mad and much ado about nothing. You can see the letter to the Mail: "even Jason Roberts thinks its nonsense".
Finally, I'll ask if John Terry or Luis Suarez had refused to wear the tee-shirts because KIO is ineffective or whatever their "considered ethical judgement" determined, would they be treated the same way as Roberts and Ferdinand?
Ron The Shelf
Andy Reid
Not deliberately trying to be controversial but racism exists on all sides. As a white man Rio Ferdinand calling Ashley Cole a choc ice, and by inference saying that being white on the inside is a bad thing is nothing short of a racial slur which I find offensive yet this seems to have conveniently been forgotten. The hypocrisy of Ferdinand not wearing the t-shirt yesterday is stunning. If we all want racism eradicated from all walks of life there has to be one rule for all. Suarez and Terry make racial slurs they get banned. Ferdinand does likewise and nothing happens. How can that possibly be right?
Park Lane James
Andy Sinton
I think Choc Ice is meant to mean a black guy acting like a white guy - the opposite to a 'wigger'. To be honest, I found it quite funny, if a little immature.
Ron The Shelf
Andy Reid
oh so that is OK then? And anyway I am not sure it is meant as a humourous statement and it certainly wasn't the way it was used by Ferdinand. It was used as an insult to Cole, very different context. Derogatory racial terms are unacceptable, right?
Not aiming this at you James but there is definitely a view that racism = white people abusing black people but not the other way round which is liberal gonads and is the reason Ferdinand got away with it.
jts1882
Dean Richards
Obviously racism can go both ways. Some black people can be and often are racist, just as some white people are. But its not symmetrical.
There is a history of black people being treated as inferior (or even sub-human) because of their race. That means when a white person calls a black person what Terry called Ferdinand, it carries more weight. When a black person calls a white person a white cvnt it doesn't have the same impact. Both are being racist, but one is a lot more hurtful and demeaning because of the history. Its also not entirely history as racial minorities are still disadvantaged in some ways. In practice, one is saying you are a cvnt because of you are black and inferior while the other is saying you are a cvnt that just happens to be white. Its a very different level of insult.
You can make a similar argument about people making monkey gestures to Bale. Its probably hurtful to him, but it doesn't have the same historical connotations, likening black people to monkeys rather than being fully-fledged humans. Neither is nice and we'd be better off without both, but there are different levels of hurt involved.
P.S. Ferdinand didn't get away with it. He was fined £45000, more than Lazio.
There is a history of black people being treated as inferior (or even sub-human) because of their race. That means when a white person calls a black person what Terry called Ferdinand, it carries more weight. When a black person calls a white person a white cvnt it doesn't have the same impact. Both are being racist, but one is a lot more hurtful and demeaning because of the history. Its also not entirely history as racial minorities are still disadvantaged in some ways. In practice, one is saying you are a cvnt because of you are black and inferior while the other is saying you are a cvnt that just happens to be white. Its a very different level of insult.
You can make a similar argument about people making monkey gestures to Bale. Its probably hurtful to him, but it doesn't have the same historical connotations, likening black people to monkeys rather than being fully-fledged humans. Neither is nice and we'd be better off without both, but there are different levels of hurt involved.
P.S. Ferdinand didn't get away with it. He was fined £45000, more than Lazio.
It wasn't actually used by Ferdinand was it? Someone else tweeted it to him and he laughed
Not exactly the same as Terrys blatantly calling someone a black **** and pretty much getting off scott free is it?
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
I thought it was quite clever actually.
Cole betrayed a lot more than just black footballers by being an apologist for a racist.
Danners9
Luke Young
Why should they back a campaign that they don't believe in?
Clarke Carlisle has said that if you can't force players to shake hands then why should you force them to wear a t-shirt. Ferdinand feels the campaign is just for show and when it is tested there is nothing behind it.. a 4 game ban, a fine.. and that's it. An 8 game ban, a smaller fine.. done. Phew.
Kick It Out is a nice idea but it needs to be backed properly or dropped. If Chelsea won't do anything with Terry then it undermines the highest profile case in recent years and weakens the campaign's position; clubs say they support it, wear the shirts, then when it is them in the spotlight they do nothing.
Clarke Carlisle has said that if you can't force players to shake hands then why should you force them to wear a t-shirt. Ferdinand feels the campaign is just for show and when it is tested there is nothing behind it.. a 4 game ban, a fine.. and that's it. An 8 game ban, a smaller fine.. done. Phew.
Kick It Out is a nice idea but it needs to be backed properly or dropped. If Chelsea won't do anything with Terry then it undermines the highest profile case in recent years and weakens the campaign's position; clubs say they support it, wear the shirts, then when it is them in the spotlight they do nothing.
jts1882
Dean Richards
Well, if the black players won't back it, they might as well drop it and carry on as we are.
Congratulations Jason and Rio.
Danners9
Luke Young
Well, if the clubs aren't going to discipline their players or the FA hand out proper punishments.
Congratulations John and Chelsea.