Nicolas N’Koulou

[parklane1]

I do not think CB is a priorty for us UNLESS Fazio does go. Davies has played CB for wales on occasion so we have enough cover unless like I say Fazio does go.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Veljkovic has already played in the EPL and 2CV has been in EL squads.

They were the two outstanding defenders at the U20s world cup last summer.

If they aren't good enough to be 4th choice, I really don't know what is. More Ricardo Rochas and Ryan Nelsens?

Right now a Ryan Nelson type would be a far better choice as our 4th centre half than one of the two youngsters. Being 4th choice means that both senior central defenders would already be out and dropping Veljkovic or Carter-Vickers in at that level alongside another young centre half may not be the best thing for their development. You also need to realise that under 20 football is very different to PL football.

Additionally (IMO) both Veljkovic and Carter-Vickers would benefit far more from playing regular competitive games at a lower level than getting the odd game or two for the first team and regular appearances for the under 21s (where the level of football is not very competitive at all IMO).

 

[Gutter Boy]

Veljkovic has about 30 minutes of Premier League football to his name -- he came on in the 88th minute when we were 4-1 up at home to Sunderland, and he came on in the 62nd minute when we were 3-0 up at home to Aston Villa. Both appearances were in 2014. He had 3 sub appearances on loan at Middlesbrough and 3 games on loan at Charlton, then got injured. He has had no senior football to harden him up and make him ready for the Premier League. He is nowhere near ready to step in at centre-half for us in games that matter, imo. Compare to Alli, who had two full seasons in league one before coming into our team. Maybe he's Baresi in waiting, but we don't know and Poch hasn't seen fit to use him at all, where he has given time to someone like Onomah.

CCV has just turned 18 (on the 31st December last year, apparently). He hasn't a single minute of senior football to his name.

So no, imo neither of these players are good enough to be 4th choice CB. They need a loan move or maybe in the case of CCV, they need another year before they are ready to step into our first team. I think Ledley was about 18/19 when he made his debut for us, and he started off in midfield under Graham. And it's a big leap to say that CCV is the next Ledley.

So I would discount those two youngsters. If we keep Fazio, no problem, but if we sell him, we should buy someone who is come in and ready to play. It doesn't have to be Ryan Nelsen or a youngster, there is a happy middle-ground.

It's not Poch's way though is it.

Note how we only have 5 players out on loan now, compared to 15-20 odd under Redknapp/AVB. Poch just seems to prefer a directly connected conveyor belt over squad padders.

 

[DublinSpur]

If Fazio leaves then we will need a new CB. It's that simple (IMO). I don't know if Veljkovic or CCV are ready to step up and play a major role in our season. And that's what you need from your backup players. You hope they will never be needed. You hope that Alderweireld and Vertonghen will stay fit and uninjured for the rest of the year. But you have to plan for injuries or risk writing off an entire season because of an unlucky twist to a knee.

I like what I've seen of Veljkovic, and I hear great things about CCV. I wouldn't have thought either of them is ready to help us challenge for the top positions over the next few months though. But if Pochettino disagrees and promotes one of them... then I'm happy with that.

I'm certainly not happy if the manager - like some fans - is simply assuming that we don't need solid backup because we've gone the past 5 months without an injury crisis. I don't think Pochettino thinks like that though - and if Fazio leaves then I fully expect us to bring in another CB as cover.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

I do not think CB is a priorty for us UNLESS Fazio does go. Davies has played CB for wales on occasion so we have enough cover unless like I say Fazio does go.

Yea actually that would be my first port of call if we have a CB crisis, Davies to centre and rose to lb, better than moving Dier out of the CM. hopefully we won't get too unlucky and we don't suffer a couple of injuries at the same time. I think CB is one of the least worrysome areas currently, I like the look of Wimmer and I rate Fazio higher than most (although still a clear 4th choice), which is amazing after last season! With Davies and Dier very able in an absolute disaster scenario I think we are well stocked personally.

If Fazio left I'd look for a replacement, but I wouldn't be panicking if we didn't get one.

 

[the dza]

It's not Poch's way though is it.

Note how we only have 5 players out on loan now, compared to 15-20 odd under Redknapp/AVB. Poch just seems to prefer a directly connected conveyor belt over squad padders.

He had Carroll on a season long loan at Swansea didn't he?

Apart from Onomah, is there anybody else who has been given a significant amount of minutes that didn't already have experience of playing football at a senior level? Bentaleb had game time under Sherwood, Kane too and he was Millwall's young player of the season before that. Carroll was out on loan at Swansea. Mason had some time out on loan at Doncaster and some other clubs, and even then he was 23 (?) when Poch decided he wanted him as part of the squad.

I can't really think of anybody under Poch who has gone from academy straight to the first team squad (Onomah aside). The other young lads have already done it, so no need for them to be loaned out. Pritchard was on loan last season too, and may now be deemed ready for a squad place (when fit). Seems a bit of a reach to say he prefers to go straight from the academy without loaning when there's only the one player who has done it that way under his management.

 

[Coys300]

Why exactly would we need to replace Fazio if he leaves us? He played one game all season... I'm sure we can manage that one game without a Fazio replacement coming in. Wimmer has only played three games as well, he has barely been needed and he's actually our third choice.

Besides, we've got plenty of options if injuries do happen. If one of the Belgians gets injured Wimmer could just take over. Only if both of them are injured at the same time, which is already an unlikely situation, would we have to be a bit more creative. Dier can just move back to defence if we have to, with Bentaleb and/or Dembele taking over in defensive/central midfield that's hardly a disaster. Furthermore, Davies is good enough to be a CB for Wales, I'm sure he can cut it for us as well in that position if we're talking about 4th/5th choice. And then in truly desperate situations we still have Veljckovic and CCV.

I don't really see how adding another CB is going to help us that much, he won't play much anyway, and then when he actually does isn't match-fit, so also very questionable how he would perform. In that case you're probably a lot better off just playing Davies or Dier there, because they at least are match-fit, as are their replacements at LB and central midfield.

 

[DaveT316]

Why exactly would we need to replace Fazio if he leaves us? He played one game all season... I'm sure we can manage that one game without a Fazio replacement coming in. Wimmer has only played three games as well, he has barely been needed and he's actually our third choice.

Besides, we've got plenty of options if injuries do happen. If one of the Belgians gets injured Wimmer could just take over. Only if both of them are injured at the same time, which is already an unlikely situation, would we have to be a bit more creative. Dier can just move back to defence if we have to, with Bentaleb and/or Dembele taking over in defensive/central midfield that's hardly a disaster. Furthermore, Davies is good enough to be a CB for Wales, I'm sure he can cut it for us as well in that position if we're talking about 4th/5th choice. And then in truly desperate situations we still have Veljckovic and CCV.

I don't really see how adding another CB is going to help us that much, he won't play much anyway, and then when he actually does isn't match-fit, so also very questionable how he would perform. In that case you're probably a lot better off just playing Davies or Dier there, because they at least are match-fit, as are their replacements at LB and central midfield.

Completely agree with this and GB's sentiment. Unlikely both the Dutch lads would both be out at same time and if they were, we do have Dier to drop in alongside Wimmer. Hardly dire straights. I like the lean squad Poch has cultivated, bar the lack of an alternative to Kane. If Fazio goes, I personally don't feel he needs replacing.

 

[the dza]

Why exactly would we need to replace Fazio if he leaves us? He played one game all season... I'm sure we can manage that one game without a Fazio replacement coming in. Wimmer has only played three games as well, he has barely been needed and he's actually our third choice.

Besides, we've got plenty of options if injuries do happen. If one of the Belgians gets injured Wimmer could just take over. Only if both of them are injured at the same time, which is already an unlikely situation, would we have to be a bit more creative. Dier can just move back to defence if we have to, with Bentaleb and/or Dembele taking over in defensive/central midfield that's hardly a disaster. Furthermore, Davies is good enough to be a CB for Wales, I'm sure he can cut it for us as well in that position if we're talking about 4th/5th choice. And then in truly desperate situations we still have Veljckovic and CCV.

I don't really see how adding another CB is going to help us that much, he won't play much anyway, and then when he actually does isn't match-fit, so also very questionable how he would perform. In that case you're probably a lot better off just playing Davies or Dier there, because they at least are match-fit, as are their replacements at LB and central midfield.

By the same logic though, we don't need a striker either. Kane hasn't been injured and Son has played the odd game up top. Njie hasn't been required and Chadli/Lamela could cover there. Yet most people think we should sign a striker.

I'll support whatever Poch decides. I think the simplest thing is to keep Fazio for now, because I think it's too soon for CCV to step-up -- but then again, if Poch rated Fazio, maybe he'd have played him more and given Vert and Toby more breaks. So replacing Fazio with someone he actually rates might see that happen.

 

[DublinSpur]

Why exactly would we need to replace Fazio if he leaves us? He played one game all season... I'm sure we can manage that one game without a Fazio replacement coming in.

Quick question; if Alderweireld had fecked his ankle at the start of October, do you still think Fazio would have only played one game all season?

If you think that - then fair enough, we'll just agree to differ.

On the other hand, if you think an injury to one of our first-choice CBs in October would have meant Fazio shouldering a fair bit of the burden of that loss and playing more than one game, then it's obviously not a case of "managing that one game without a Fazio replacement"; it's a case of planning and preparing for that other eventuality where Fazio had to step in to cover an injury for an extended period of time.

 

[DubaiSpur]

If Fazio goes, this is pretty much the best signing we can hope for. Only 25, will be cheap due to his contract expiring come the end of the season...but still a very good, technically sound, intelligent player (judging by descriptions of his playing style, at least), with considerable experience playing in the CL and under Marcelo Bielsa, Poch's tactical guru. Also can apparently play at DM as well as CB, which solves the 'cover for Dier' dilemma.

I'll be very happy if we manage to pick him up, and props to Levy if he can make it happen.

Edit: Also, I think people are getting a bit carried away with grandiose proclamations about being happy with the CBs we have, even without Fazio. It wasn't that long ago that our defense was the most terrifyingly inept part of our team, and a lot has been masked by the excellent form of Toby-Jan. If one of them goes down, and we're forced to shift Dier back into CB, our midfield will suffer considerably (especially if Bentaleb's our other option there), and that will have a knock-on effect on our solidity as a whole. In time, CCV will hopefully be ready to take that fourth CB spot behind Toby, Jan and Wimmer...but for now, if Fazio leaves, someone like N'Koulou is definitely needed, imo.

 

[Coys300]

Quick question; if Alderweireld had fecked his ankle at the start of October, do you still think Fazio would have only played one game all season?

In that case he might have played the game against Monaco at home where we were already qualified for Europe. That's about it. It's not like Wimmer played a lot either, and he is actually ahead of Fazio in the pecking order. If as you say Alderweireld (or alternatively Vertonghen) would get injured, it's not Fazio who would take over from them. At best he moves up a spot in the ranking, but that doesn't mean Poch will play him. He already is extremely reluctant to rotate his CB's, I can imagine this reluctance would only increase if it means he has to play Fazio.

 

[Bullet]

Buying someone only really makes sense if they are mega cheap or can cover both CB and DM.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Buying someone only really makes sense if they are mega cheap or can cover both CB and DM.

Given that his contract expires in the summer, I'd say N'Koulou would definitely be cheap: and, according to descriptions of his playstyle, he can indeed play at both CB and DM. Also, he was a favorite of Bielsa, which bodes well for his ability to fit into Poch's style of play.

 

[Coys300]

By the same logic though, we don't need a striker either. Kane hasn't been injured and Son has played the odd game up top. Njie hasn't been required and Chadli/Lamela could cover there. Yet most people think we should sign a striker.

It is not the same. At the striker position we only have wingers and midfielders who could potentially do a job there as cover to Kane, but they are not strikers. While we do have real cover at CB in Wimmer at least who is an actual centre-back and arguably Dier as well whose transition to midfielder has been a very recent occurance. I take your point about Davies falling under the same logic, but in that case we are talking about something like a fifth choice option at CB. Which isn't exactly comparable to striker where even our second-choice (whoever that may be) isn't a real striker, but someone who could do a job there if needed. Also, Kane might not be injured yet, but unlike the Belgians he looks visibly tired imo. I think he has a bigger chance of breaking down atm if we continue to play him almost constantly than the Belgians do.

 

[milo]

Given that his contract expires in the summer, I'd say N'Koulou would definitely be cheap: and, according to descriptions of his playstyle, he can indeed play at both CB and DM. Also, he was a favorite of Bielsa, which bodes well for his ability to fit into Poch's style of play.

I agree.

It sounds like a Levy signing to me. Bring someone in cheap for 18 months and move them on for a profit. Hopefully 2CV will have had a loan and some decent game time under his belt by then and be ready for a first team squad place.

 

[Bullet]

Precisely Milo.

Best case scenario, he is brilliant and makes the first team.

Worst case scenario, we sell him to Leicester for a profit. Or he goes mental and kills Poch, Levy and Kane with a uranium tipped umbrella

 

[alekaras]

Worst case scenario, Toby/Jan both out, play Davies/Wimmer and use Bentaleb as cover for Rose at LB, where he did quite well in that one game last season. Dier retains his DM spot. However, the chances of both Toby and Jan being out simultaneously for a prolonged period of time is quite small. So I would venture that signing a pure CB is not that much of a priority, even if we sell Faz. But a CB/DM would be an appealing option.

 

[milo]

Worst case scenario, Toby/Jan both out, play Davies/Wimmer and use Bentaleb as cover for Rose at LB, where he did quite well in that one game last season. Dier retains his DM spot. However, the chances of both Toby and Jan being out simultaneously for a prolonged period of time is quite small. So I would venture that signing a pure CB is not that much of a priority, even if we sell Faz. But a CB/DM would be an appealing option.

I doubt that everyone would be so relaxed about it if we did not bring anyone in and lost Toby and Jan for a run of games.

 

[alekaras]

I doubt that everyone would be so relaxed about it if we did not bring anyone in and lost Toby and Jan for a run of games.

We're not relaxed about a host of other positions and we're doing alright, so I wouldn't put much weight on how relaxed people are.