Next Spurs Manager v.2

[LutonSpurs]

Tom Collomosse ‏@TomCStandard 8m

Southampton making contingency plans for possible post-Pochettino. Believe Oscar Garcia, Petrescu, Di Matteo are among those in frame #thfc

 

[indianspur]

There's actually a theory that the best players don't make good coaches. The best coaches are actually the mediocre journeymen players. Because they understand how to improve those with limitations, whereas naturally gifted players just get frustrated when players can't do/see the things that they used to be able to (Hoddle the textbook example).

i dont think De Boer is like Hoddle in any way........Hoddle was a genius player, plus has very different views about life in general. His ability of course made him feel superior to more inferior players. De Boer was a down to earth defender who worked very hard to get the success he had. Even when he decided to enter management, he started out at the youth level at Ajax for a number of years and also was assistant at international level for Holland before he took a full time boss role at Ajax. He has done the hard groundwork, not just used his playing career as a automatic passport into a top job

 

[Baleforce]

I wasn't championing Poch. I was saying FdB is a long way off the calibre of Mourinho, Pellegrini, LvG and Wenger.

For me there's absolutely nothing between Poch and FdB. I don't even have a preferred choice. But I'm very confident it will be Poch, so I'm getting used to the idea.




I only said Friday because I know this weekend is the big exodus for holidays.

And yes - thanks, that was my point.




There's actually a theory that the best players don't make good coaches. The best coaches are actually the mediocre journeymen players. Because they understand how to improve those with limitations, whereas naturally gifted players just get frustrated when players can't do/see the things that they used to be able to (Hoddle the textbook example).

the greatest 2 managers in the history of English football, Clough and Ferguson were both fantastic players

 

[braineclipse]

he has had success at both playing and managerial levels, surely it cant be a bad thing. He has a lot of top level experience to offer, he has been in winning dressing rooms at CL and domestic level. Over 100 caps at international level, Im not saying its a pre-requisite, just that its an amazing amount of knowledge that our players can only benefit from. What is wrong with that.

Potentially what can be wrong with it is what GB said:

There's actually a theory that the best players don't make good coaches. The best coaches are actually the mediocre journeymen players. Because they understand how to improve those with limitations, whereas naturally gifted players just get frustrated when players can't do/see the things that they used to be able to (Hoddle the textbook example).

However, that's obviously not a rule that always applies, some great players become great coaches. I'm not saying it has to be a disadvantage and I'm sure it can be an advantage to some. At least FdB has shown himself to be a capable manager and I don't think he would have gotten his results in Holland or the player development he's seen there if he didn't understand how to work with the limitations of his players.

It might be an advantage, I don't see how it makes him special though. It keeps being mentioned as a big positive for FdB, but when I look at successful managers around England and Europe there's a handful that were very successful players, but there's also a lot that weren't that special. And we know of quite a few top class players that have gone on to be rather average managers at best. Considering that I just don't see why someone's playing career should be a decisive factor.

 

[Superted]

can we have a new poll please, with just De Boer and Poch. I think we can rule out the other names now

Benitez is still in the frame. It will come out of those 3 unless we completely balls it up.

 

[indianspur]

Potentially what can be wrong with it is what GB said:



However, that's obviously not a rule that always applies, some great players become great coaches. I'm not saying it has to be a disadvantage and I'm sure it can be an advantage to some. At least FdB has shown himself to be a capable manager and I don't think he would have gotten his results in Holland or the player development he's seen there if he didn't understand how to work with the limitations of his players.

It might be an advantage, I don't see how it makes him special though. It keeps being mentioned as a big positive for FdB, but when I look at successful managers around England and Europe there's a handful that were very successful players, but there's also a lot that weren't that special. And we know of quite a few top class players that have gone on to be rather average managers at best. Considering that I just don't see why someone's playing career should be a decisive factor.

my GHod its just an added advantage its a plus, an extra, on top of an already successful spell in management. And yes it makes him special because as you and Gutter keep pointing out, there are very few successful players who also go on to have success in management. So if you agree with that, then surely what FdB has done makes him a bit special:-k

 

[indianspur]

Benitez is still in the frame. It will come out of those 3 unless we completely balls it up.

Benitez is staying in Naples....he is already buying players for next season, just signed a french centre back and is also looking at Agger.

 

[braineclipse]

my GHod its just an added advantage its a plus, an extra, on top of an already successful spell in management. And yes it makes him special because as you and Gutter keep pointing out, there are very few successful players who also go on to have success in management. So if you agree with that, then surely what FdB has done makes him a bit special:-k

Both myself and GB were talking about top managers, not just managers that have success in management. Frank Rijkaard, Jurgen Klinsmann and Ruud Gullit for example have all had success at least at some levels as managers. But they're not top managers and not managers we should be considering imo.

 

[gungy]

so whats the general rule here?

Great player = 'some' success at management level e.g. viali, hullit, rijkard, mancini

Average player = 'good' success at management level' e.g. simeoni, klopp

Poor player(1) = 'excellent' success at management e.g. conte, anchelloti, fergy, LvG, FdB, mourihnio, george graham
Poor player(2) = 'steady eddy' at management e.g. moyes, martinez, geryy francis, Arry, Timmeh, Ramos, Gross, Jol, Santini

there are exceptions like great players e.g. Klinsmann who had no club mgt success and pep whose had plenty of success

 

[indianspur]

Both myself and GB were talking about top managers, not just managers that have success in management. Frank Rijkaard, Jurgen Klinsmann and Ruud Gullit for example have all had success at least at some levels as managers. But they're not top managers and not managers we should be considering imo.

Ive made my point. I think FdB is rare in his achievements, I think he has a lot of winning experience to offer and this can only be a positive thing. Id like him as our new head coach but if Levy goes down the Poch route then i will back him. All we want is for Spurs to be successful

 

[FatBloke]

i dont think De Boer is like Hoddle in any way........Hoddle was a genius player, plus has very different views about life in general. His ability of course made him feel superior to more inferior players. De Boer was a down to earth defender who worked very hard to get the success he had. Even when he decided to enter management, he started out at the youth level at Ajax for a number of years and also was assistant at international level for Holland before he took a full time boss role at Ajax. He has done the hard groundwork, not just used his playing career as a automatic passport into a top job

Not sure Hoddle's the best example here. We're all biased against Hoddle as a manager thanks to all the crap that came during his spell managing Spurs. He inherited a poor squad, and this was compounded by some poor signings.

However, he got Southampton punching above their weight while playing nice football -- sound familiar? He got Swindon Town to the Premiership! Did alright at Chelsea too, before he got the England job and made some very poor PR decisions.

 

[indianspur]

Not sure Hoddle's the best example here. We're all biased against Hoddle as a manager thanks to all the crap that came during his spell managing Spurs. He inherited a poor squad, and this was compounded by some poor signings.

However, he got Southampton punching above their weight while playing nice football -- sound familiar? He got Swindon Town to the Premiership! Did alright at Chelsea too, before he got the England job and made some very poor PR decisions.

Gutter brought up Hoddle, i just responded

 

[NorwegianSpursFan]

Personally i'd put simeoni in the great player bracket. He's got over 100 caps for argentina..

 

[indianspur]

Not sure Hoddle's the best example here. We're all biased against Hoddle as a manager thanks to all the crap that came during his spell managing Spurs. He inherited a poor squad, and this was compounded by some poor signings.

However, he got Southampton punching above their weight while playing nice football -- sound familiar? He got Swindon Town to the Premiership! Did alright at Chelsea too, before he got the England job and made some very poor PR decisions.

yes it does

 

[Superted]

Personally i'd put simeoni in the great player bracket. He's got over 100 caps for argentina..

And FDB. Surely that's a typo having him in the poor player list.

 

[Grassroots]

I still don't get why that makes him special.

If it's true (as GB claims) that none of those 4 top managers at the 4 top clubs had massive success as players why would we think "what we need is someone that had success as a player"?

I did not have any success as a player would you want me
i'm a good manager

I guess the difference is he had success as a player and a manager add that to the fact all the players that have played under him think he's great and all in Holland seem to say he is the next big thing and will be even more successful outside of Holland
And he talks the talk and thus far has walked the walk I think that gives him immense credibility don't you ?

 

[Grassroots]

Potentially what can be wrong with it is what GB said:



However, that's obviously not a rule that always applies, some great players become great coaches. I'm not saying it has to be a disadvantage and I'm sure it can be an advantage to some. At least FdB has shown himself to be a capable manager and I don't think he would have gotten his results in Holland or the player development he's seen there if he didn't understand how to work with the limitations of his players.

It might be an advantage, I don't see how it makes him special though. It keeps being mentioned as a big positive for FdB, but when I look at successful managers around England and Europe there's a handful that were very successful players, but there's also a lot that weren't that special. And we know of quite a few top class players that have gone on to be rather average managers at best. Considering that I just don't see why someone's playing career should be a decisive factor.

Quite simply because footballers will have immense respect for him because of what he has done/acheived and that gives him time ,time to get his point across with no hindrance

 

[DTA]

Wait if gutter boy is now in the pouch camp, I'm in the anyone but pouch camp, that guy gets everything football related wrong levy should just do the opposite of what he says

 

[shaney]

Poch could just as easily finish 15th next season if he stays at Southampton. We are mad to put our faith in a "flavour of the month" appointment.

 

[braineclipse]

I did not have any success as a player would you want me
i'm a good manager

I guess the difference is he had success as a player and a manager add that to the fact all the players that have played under him think he's great and all in Holland seem to say he is the next big thing and will be even more successful outside of Holland
And he talks the talk and thus far has walked the walk I think that gives him immense credibility don't you ?

I do, but I think the same for Pochettino. And I don't see the one factor of immense success as a player as decisive.