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Next Spurs Manager v.2

Who do you want?

  • Louis Van Gaal

    Votes: 8 6.6%

  • Mauro Pochettino

    Votes: 9 7.4%

  • Frank de Boer

    Votes: 43 35.5%

  • Roberto Martinez

    Votes: 16 13.2%

  • Carlo Ancelotti

    Votes: 10 8.3%

  • Murat Yakin

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Thomas Tuchel

    Votes: 2 1.7%

  • Rafa Benitez

    Votes: 29 24.0%

  • Someone Else

    Votes: 4 3.3%
  • Total voters
    121
  • Poll closed .
On phone so can't make a detailed response (big thumbs small keys )
Had not mouriniho only been at porto before he came ?
Where had wenger been ? No where special

And yes the others are classed as special managers but how many achieved success at non top draw highest spending clubs ? ( I don't genuinely know)

Pochs highest ever finish as a manager is this year 8th is that above average ?
I did say as yet and I am not saying he is no good or if he gets the job I will not support him
But for me fdb's cv is superior
He did not go in to the Ajax team at the top he started with the youth he reimplemented the ajax format so impressively they gave him the top job .
If **** won the title this year against the cash cows it would have been an impressive feat no?
Better squads if Liverpool had it would have been impressive even more so

But that's what fdb did he rebuilt the team without spending fortunes and rebuilt the system he then proved he had a plan b and adapted for games he should have lost city Barca man u

Stop! Hammer time mate mine and yours just differ thats what makes football great we could both be wrong or right poch could end up a world beater or a chump same goes for fdb
Time will tell I guess. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rob
braineclipse said:
With him getting them to CL and winning the cup I don't think this has to be related to us at all. Only natural for them to extend his contract after that when they had the option to.
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It would also guarantee more compensation if he does leave for elsewhere.
 
braineclipse said:
1. I'm going to ignore Mancini because of the kind of resources he had and spent to get that title. The rest of those you mention there are or were top class managers. You're grouping FdB with them and unsurprisingly you're coming out with a favourable looking argument for FdB. FdB hasn't proven himself to be at their level (yet) though, so there's no reason that he should be mentioned amongst them instead of being mentioned alongside AVB and Ramos for example or other managers that have failed to adapt.

I actually find it a bit strange that I have to argue to support the point that knowing and having succeeded in the (Premier) league before is a benefit for a manager. If you disagree with this you'll have to do more than mention a handful of top class managers that have succeeded at top clubs to convince me otherwise.

2. I think you're misrepresenting my opinion a bit here. My point was that FdB hasn't shown that he can implement his ideas at a team that isn't at or close to the very top of the league, or for a club in the PL, or with a club where he himself isn't a club legend. These are things that Poch has done. These are points in favour of Poch. There are other points in favour of FdB, like him winning trophies.

3. Obviously FdB is a legend, I'm not disputing that. But this comes back to a previous discussion I've had on here. Is this predictive of a great manager? Are legendary superstar players more likely to become great managers? I'm just not sure that's the case and thus I'm not convinced by the "he's a legend" line of argumentation.

Finally, about Poch's supposedly "distinctly average" managerial career so far. We'll just have to disagree I'm afraid. I've argued page up and page down about it so far. To be very brief, he wasn't hired by the (now) highly rated then chairman of Southampton because he had been average. He's not being looked at by Levy because he's been average. For a slightly longer look at his time at Espanyol I wrote a long-ish post here: http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showthread.php/5606-Next-Spurs-Manager-v-2?p=545299&viewfull=1#post545299

To clarify, I'm no expert on Spanish football or Poch's time at Espanyol, but what I put together was mainly a collection of quotes from articles written at the time he took over at Southampton. I think those paint a picture that's very different from "distinctly average". I've pointed those out several times with the qualifier that I'll be happy to bow down to anyone with superior knowledge to myself or those I quoted in my post. I've yet to get a good response arguing for the "distinctly average" side I feel.
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In response to point 1 Pellegrini was even more unproven that FDB, didn't win the league at Real and hadn't won a trophy anywhere else. Promising yes but ultimately hadn't delivered. Similarly with Wenger, he won the French league with Monaco in the 80's and one Japanese title, hardly the CV of Ancelotti etc. Mourinho whilst he had won the CL the season before still had a lot of question marks over him when he arrived but took them to the title twice on the trot and in the first season got most points, most wins in a season, most home wins in a season, fewest goals conceded in a season and most clean sheets in a season. I think that shows you can adjust in the first season as those 3 who had questions marks over them have shown.
 
Grassroots said:
On phone so can't make a detailed response (big thumbs small keys )
Had not mouriniho only been at porto before he came ?
Where had wenger been ? No where special

And yes the others are classed as special managers but how many achieved success at non top draw highest spending clubs ? ( I don't genuinely know)

Pochs highest ever finish as a manager is this year 8th is that above average ?
I did say as yet and I am not saying he is no good or if he gets the job I will not support him
But for me fdb's cv is superior
He did not go in to the Ajax team at the top he started with the youth he reimplemented the ajax format so impressively they gave him the top job .
If **** won the title this year against the cash cows it would have been an impressive feat no?
Better squads if Liverpool had it would have been impressive even more so

But that's what fdb did he rebuilt the team without spending fortunes and rebuilt the system he then proved he had a plan b and adapted for games he should have lost city Barca man u

Stop! Hammer time mate mine and yours just differ thats what makes football great we could both be wrong or right poch could end up a world beater or a chump same goes for fdb
Time will tell I guess. :)
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Part of my point was that you're choosing only those that in hindsight experienced great success.

I don't know where you're going with "is 8th above average?" in regards to Poch.

I think both have shown that it's very likely that they're at least good managers, but my entire point is that there seems to be pros and cons for both and for me it's close between them. What I'm not getting is the argument that FdB seems clearly superior or that Poch is "distinctly average" (by comparison).
 
P.D. said:
In response to point 1 Pellegrini was even more unproven that FDB, didn't win the league at Real and hadn't won a trophy anywhere else. Promising yes but ultimately hadn't delivered. Similarly with Wenger, he won the French league with Monaco in the 80's and one Japanese title, hardly the CV of Ancelotti etc. Mourinho whilst he had won the CL the season before still had a lot of question marks over him when he arrived but took them to the title twice on the trot and in the first season got most points, most wins in a season, most home wins in a season, fewest goals conceded in a season and most clean sheets in a season. I think that shows you can adjust in the first season as those 3 who had questions marks over them have shown.
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Point of fact: Pellegrini had won trophies elsewhere, but only in South America.

Point of opinion: His only European job before City where he could realistically have been expected to deliver a trophy was his one season at Real where he got one season and with 96 points was only beaten by a fantastic Barcelona. He did really well both with Villareal and Malaga. I personally think he's a lot more proven than FdB, I also thought he was a lot more proven than Mancini for example who had league trophies with City and Inter.

To me it's ridiculous to say that "proven" or "having delivered" can only be counted when winning trophies. Getting Villareal, a team from a city with a population of 50k to the CL quarter finals is a massive achievement. How this can be "not delivering" is mystifying to me.

His CL run with Malaga was perhaps less impressive considering that they had spent a considerable chunk of money, but he kept performing with them after the owners stopped spending money. Have a look at his squad in the 12/13 season at Malaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_M%C3%A1laga_CF_season 6th in the league and a CL quarter final with that squad is pretty solid.

Do you disagree that knowing and having succeeded in the (Premier) league before is a benefit for a manager? If so, again, mentioning a handful of top class managers that did succeed quickly isn't particularly convincing for me. I haven't said it's impossible. I haven't said it can't be done. All I've said is that there's a benefit.
 
Its nit picking is it not to just say don't you agree it helps if they have prem experience
Did poch have any when he came in for Adkins ? No did Ok though didn't he
The point was he would do better than say fdb because he has a years prem experience.
My point was managers have done well from the off without that so its less important than a player less adapting easier.
 
Grassroots said:
Its nit picking is it not to just say don't you agree it helps if they have prem experience
Did poch have any when he came in for Adkins ? No did Ok though didn't he
The point was he would do better than say fdb because he has a years prem experience.
My point was managers have done well from the off without that so its less important than a player less adapting easier.
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It's not nit picking, we're talking about the pros and cons of different potential candidates for the job. Poch has proven that he can implement his ideas in the PL, at a team that isn't the best in the league. That's a point in his favour compared to FdB. Also a point in favour of Martinez and Benitez for example if they're realistic candidates.

To put it slightly differently in a hypothetical. Imagine that the Southampton experience Poch now has was instead on FdB's CV (in addition to his current achievements). Would that not make FdB a stronger candidate? I think it would. Similarly, imagine that Poch was just now out of his Espanyol job and was without his Southampton experience, would that not make him a much less viable candidate? I think it would.
 
braineclipse said:
It's not nit picking, we're talking about the pros and cons of different potential candidates for the job. Poch has proven that he can implement his ideas in the PL, at a team that isn't the best in the league. That's a point in his favour compared to FdB. Also a point in favour of Martinez and Benitez for example if they're realistic candidates.

To put it slightly differently in a hypothetical. Imagine that the Southampton experience Poch now has was instead on FdB's CV (in addition to his current achievements). Would that not make FdB a stronger candidate? I think it would. Similarly, imagine that Poch was just now out of his Espanyol job and was without his Southampton experience, would that not make him a much less viable candidate? I think it would.
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But no body was arguing that having experience in the league wasn't a advantage or beneficial was they ?

The discussion was a manager needs it to do well which they don't as has Been proved so what precisely are we arguing ? Lol
 
For all the 220 pages of posts every manager appointment is a gamble. It is only three that have been an unqualified 100% success - Ferguson, Mourinho and Wenger. Anyone else in the history of the Premier League - especially in teams with major aspirations - have either been relatively successful (such as Harry), fine for a while then tailored off (AVB) or downright flops (which is our case dates back to Santini). So for all the Levy critics... he has not done too badly overall
 
Maltese Falcon said:
For all the 220 pages of posts every manager appointment is a gamble. It is only three that have been an unqualified 100% success - Ferguson, Mourinho and Wenger. Anyone else in the history of the Premier League - especially in teams with major aspirations - have either been relatively successful (such as Harry), fine for a while then tailored off (AVB) or downright flops (which is our case dates back to Santini). So for all the Levy critics... he has not done too badly overall
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Fair point.

An interesting question is: what do those three managers have? What is it that sets them apart? And which of the prospective managers are most likely to have qualities of a great manager in your opinion?
 
JerusalemMan said:
Harry Hotspur just posted that it seems De Boer is telling people off the record that he expects to be our new manager.
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well, with Benitez seemingly out of the running, then I really dont mind too much whether its Poch or De Boer. I would prefer FDB but there similar profiles/experience and its not as if one looks like a massively better bet than the other. The press are usually qiute close to events so cant see that others are in the running (despite people liek Allegri being available)

Just hope we appoint one of these two, that the appointment is made asap and that the fans get behind the new man
 
JerusalemMan said:
Harry Hotspur just posted that it seems De Boer is telling people off the record that he expects to be our new manager.
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Didn't he just nick that off coys some guy said he had a friend or somebody with aron winter and he claimed that fdb said that ?
I'd take it with a dustbin of salt

But it would for once make me happy if true :)
 
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