Next Manager?

[thfcsteff]

It was a “where were you moment”
I was at city away and have a scar from that game from falling down the seats (in shorts). The emotions in that game were IMO unsurpassable but it’s also easier when your there as you more involved
ajax away I watched with my nephew who I took to Spurs when he was 6 and he has been going ever since
When we got the winner I was jumping around sweating like a mad man. I slid on a rug and hit the fire place. I punched a bean bag repeatedly. I was wrecked and my nephew was all over the place too
My mate who I have my seat with rang me and he was in tears... he just blubbed down the phone - and made no sense
We rang out mate out in Amsterdam and he left the game at half time (we tried to get him to do that in the final).
I booked 8 beds in a Hotel in Madrid at a cost of about £2k.... I didn’t sleep that night until gone 4am
When I got into London the next day I had loads and loads of people who knew me just come up to me and congratulate me. They knew what it meant to be a fan of this club with the effort i put in to go (and take others with me). It was surreal for a good 3/4 days
Then we had the arguments about who was going with who... who was dropping out... who wouldn’t go without a ticket... and 4 lads that I booked a hotel for, pulled out so suddenly I’m £1k down
It all came together and we had a guy meet us from the states in the end (another story)
The final was brick, robbed by a ref and I haven’t seen that game back ever
But I’d gladly watch that semi again and again. The highlights give me goosebumps. The emotions from that game were and are unbeatable, unless your a zombie

i was also at Barca away that season and at no point even when we qualified did anyone think we could make the final

This is a brilliant post.
It is so much a "where were you" moment.

I had just returned from Spain two days earlier. Been in Madrid, knew the Final was there obviously, did not think at that stage we'd get there BUT could not let go of the hope.
Had a ticket but gave it up as I was due in Botswana a week after getting home (for 2.5 weeks) and I had already said to my missus a month earlier that if we got the Final I had to go. It was a "one or the other" situation. Truth be told, those few weeks strained our marriage. Anyway...I watched that game on my sofa by myself. It was midday. I could not watch it with our supporters club, I could only watch it solo. When Lucas scored, I screamed so loudly half the block stepped out to see what was going on, and I stood there, alone in the street, screaming and screaming. The missus called, she had been following on her work computer, and I babbled. My son called, I babbled. My mate Jonny -who I go with- called and I cried. My Mum called, I blubbed. And I watched that man shed every fudging tear, pump every arm muscle and scream every last breath that I had felt.

I was back from Bots on Tuesday AM, back on a plane to Madrid via NY on Friday to meet my mate early Sat AM. It was emotional. The day was emotional. And as much as I regret the result, I will forever remember being there. And to this day, I don't regret the choices I made.

I've seen cup final wins and had amazing away days (Crouchfest) and as you say mate, it is ALL about "where you were"...

That anyone thinks Poch's celebration was bad form is simply baffling to me.

p.s. I was at Barca home and that night, qualification from the group was dodgy!

 

[thfcsteff]

It’s the emotional highs watching Spurs that are virtually unobtainable anywhere else. A last minute winner in a big game is almost unsurpassably orgasmically wonderful. In a semi final of a CL it was simply unbelievable. Unforgettable.

I still watch it to cheer me up. And I still...STILL...feel a tear or few.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

This is a brilliant post.
It is so much a "where were you" moment.

I had just returned from Spain two days earlier. Been in Madrid, knew the Final was there obviously, did not think at that stage we'd get there BUT could not let go of the hope.
Had a ticket but gave it up as I was due in Botswana a week after getting home (for 2.5 weeks) and I had already said to my missus a month earlier that if we got the Final I had to go. It was a "one or the other" situation. Truth be told, those few weeks strained our marriage. Anyway...I watched that game on my sofa by myself. It was midday. I could not watch it with our supporters club, I could only watch it solo. When Lucas scored, I screamed so loudly half the block stepped out to see what was going on, and I stood there, alone in the street, screaming and screaming. The missus called, she had been following on her work computer, and I babbled. My son called, I babbled. My mate Jonny -who I go with- called and I cried. My Mum called, I blubbed. And I watched that man shed every fudging tear, pump every arm muscle and scream every last breath that I had felt.

I was back from Bots on Tuesday AM, back on a plane to Madrid via NY on Friday to meet my mate early Sat AM. It was emotional. The day was emotional. And as much as I regret the result, I will forever remember being there. And to this day, I don't regret the choices I made.

I've seen cup final wins and had amazing away days (Crouchfest) and as you say mate, it is ALL about "where you were"...

That anyone thinks Poch's celebration was bad form is simply baffling to me.

p.s. I was at Barca home and that night, qualification from the group was dodgy!

We won 2 group games, 2 round of 16 games vs Dortmund (3 nil at Wembley was a blinding performance), 1 quarter and 1 semi with a last minute goal. To make the final with that record was a miracle.
I remember celebrating the draw in Barca up in the stands thinking the Inter game was over and the players celebrating too as they thought we knew!!!!

 

[DaveT316]

This is a brilliant post.
It is so much a "where were you" moment.

I had just returned from Spain two days earlier. Been in Madrid, knew the Final was there obviously, did not think at that stage we'd get there BUT could not let go of the hope.
Had a ticket but gave it up as I was due in Botswana a week after getting home (for 2.5 weeks) and I had already said to my missus a month earlier that if we got the Final I had to go. It was a "one or the other" situation. Truth be told, those few weeks strained our marriage. Anyway...I watched that game on my sofa by myself. It was midday. I could not watch it with our supporters club, I could only watch it solo. When Lucas scored, I screamed so loudly half the block stepped out to see what was going on, and I stood there, alone in the street, screaming and screaming. The missus called, she had been following on her work computer, and I babbled. My son called, I babbled. My mate Jonny -who I go with- called and I cried. My Mum called, I blubbed. And I watched that man shed every fudging tear, pump every arm muscle and scream every last breath that I had felt.

I was back from Bots on Tuesday AM, back on a plane to Madrid via NY on Friday to meet my mate early Sat AM. It was emotional. The day was emotional. And as much as I regret the result, I will forever remember being there. And to this day, I don't regret the choices I made.

I've seen cup final wins and had amazing away days (Crouchfest) and as you say mate, it is ALL about "where you were"...

That anyone thinks Poch's celebration was bad form is simply baffling to me.

p.s. I was at Barca home and that night, qualification from the group was dodgy!

Agreed. A wonderful post, I will never ever forget this night. Potentially a kernel of a subject for the pod - your best ever Spurs moment...and balanced out by your worst.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I have some very long resposnes to your post Pirate (apologies to those not interested.... please just skip over the next two posts).

I agree with much of that but my reservations with Poch are several fold.

1. His book was a massive misstep and contained a lot of nonsense ( substitutions, lemons , aura etc etc)

Agreed. I don't think the book was particularly helpful. I'm not sure it did much damage either. I hope we see another book from him though where we get a warts and all report of the goings on at Tottenham while he was at the club.

2 He lucked into a team ripe for his methods ( young - Kane, Ali, Dier) (exceptionally quick full backs- Walker and Rose, quality CHs in Verts and Toby, and two world class players in Eriksen and Dembele) . He gets credit for buying Toby and Wanyama ( both of whom he knew from Soton) and Son. He deserves praise for moulding an exceptional team which was exciting to watch. We were probably the best team in England for a couple of years, but he failed to win anything.

This is a very hindsight driven post. When Pochettino took over we had just finished 6th with Sherwood improving things somewhat after we'd given AVB the boot. Pochettino's first game at Spurs saw the following team start the game:
Lloris, Naughton, Kaboul, Dier, Rose Bentaleb, Capoue, Lamela, Eriksen, Lennon, Adebayor.

Of those players he had signed Dier that summer for a small transfer fee and Rose wasn't considered to be a top player at all (I remember fighting a pretty lonely battle on here when arguing that he was a good fullback who was just suffering from a lack of protection from having Chadli in front of him prior to Poch's arrival but a large majority on here wanted him replaced).

Pochettino got lucky with Harry Kane I agree, but I also think that he has to get a lot of credit for the development that Kane made under his stewardship. You say that that Poch 'lucked into a team' and then listed Dier, Dele and Kane. Two of those Pochettino signed and the other was anything but a bona-fide first choice player when Pochettino arrived at the club.

The two full backs were indeed fast but, again, I think, especially with Rose, you're looking at how good he ended up as opposed to where he was when Pochettino first game in. The manager developed Rose massively (and also improved Walker significantly IMO). Rose didn't get his first England cap until 2016, almost two years after Pochettino came in, considering England hand out caps like confetti that tells you a lot. The fitness that Pochettino introduced was also absolutely key in those full backs becoming so good, both of them used to complete more sprints in a game than virtually any player in the league that was the key really as neither player had amazing technique.

I think it is the same story with Eriksen, Vertonghen and Dembele. You're looking at where they ended up. None of those players were considered to be brilliant, top class players when Pochettino first arrived. I think his coaching played a large part in them pushing on and becoming those players who ended up amongst the very best players in their positions in the PL.

You then try to find a reaosn to talk down two good signings saying he knew them from Southampton. When in actual fact it was only Wanyama that he managed at Southampton, not Toby. Toby went on loan to the Saints after Pochettino had joined us. Even with Wanyama I remember quite a large portion on here when we were interested in him (admittedly led by Gutter boy) saying that he wasn't very good, didn't offer us anything, etc.

3 My biggest grip with Poch was his performance in the transfer market. It seemed to me totally random and haphazard. We bought something like 26?players under him, spunking big money on Sanchez, Sissoko, NDombele, Sessegnon, LoCelso etc. How many have been successes? We wasted loads on Jansen and the N'Twins. We seemed to have no plan and he didn't improve hardly any of these " raw material" players which would have cemented his claim to be a great coach.

26 players isn't many at all over 11 transfer windows. That is an average of under 5 players per year. I would imagine that is a lower number of players brought in than most PL teams over that same period.

Those players you mentioned. One started well under Poch but has ultimately been a failure (Sanchez). One we overpaid for but has been an OK squad player (Sissoko). One looks like a brilliant purchase (Ndombele) and the other two you can't really comment either way on yet, though I think both have excellent qualities (especially Sessegnon) and should go on to prove very, very good signings for the money (injuries permitting with Lo Celso).

You talk about the N'Twins. Neither were expensive and remember the manager wanted Mane instead of the latter of the two, only for him to go to Liverpool as they offered him a better wage. It is the same story with Sissoko as well - the manager wanted Wijnaldum, only for our chairman to not agree a transfer with Saudi Sportswashing Machine or match his wage terms and, again, Liverpool got him. A direct competitor who at the time were finishing below us got two of our first choice players ahead of us. Look at the relative fortunes of the two clubs since? The galling thing on the Wijnaldum deal was that we ended up paying a higher transfer fee for Sissoko when we panicked on deadline day than Liverpool paid for Wijnaldum earlier in the window.

Janssen I agree was a poor signing and I never understood why the manager didn't really give him a proper chance. If we're only really moaning at Sissoko (wanted Wijnaldum), The N'Twins (wanted Mane) Sanchez and Janssen though then actually the manager has done pretty well in terms of transfers. Especially in light of his paltry budget.

 

[Finney Is Back]

4. His lack of succession planning was a real Achilles heel. He let a great squad grow old and or jaded together. He sucked the life out of Wanyama, Dembele, Rose, Ali, without ever having a cogent plan to replace them.Which youth players did he bring through? Winks? Hardly a world beater. Most other promising youth players were seemingly never in his plans or he failed to bring them on. Again, not a sign of a great coach.

I think the manager always had a plan for how he would progress the team, the problem is that the chairman didn't share that same plan.

Pochettino wanted Sessegnon a year earlier to phase in to replace Rose. He wanted Grealish to phase in to replace Eriksen (which also would've allowed us to sell Eriksen for a decent amount with 18 to 12 months left on his contract). I think Ndombele was the Dembele replacement. He wanted Wjinaldum to drive our midfield. Wanted Mane so that we could have a front three of Mane, Kane, Son (would've been by far best in the league). Aurier was the Walker replacement (with Kyle Walker Peters being the player considered as the backup). Dele didn't need replacing, he was 23 years old when Poch was sacked, but even there Poch first wanted Bruno Fernandes (very, very gettable) and then Dybala as the alternative options there.

In terms of the youth players brought through, at various times he brought youth players into the team - Kane, Bentaleb, Mason, Townsend, Kyle Walker Peters, Edwards and of course Winks who actually looked a very good player indeed until some injuries hampered his development. I'm not sure which youth players Poch could've used really? He didn't have the luxury of easy group games in the Europa League in which you can hand out a few first team appearances like confetti as we were instead playing in the big boys league. I actually do remember him giving some of the youth players (Tanganga, Walker Peters, Skipp and Parrot) a chance against Colchester in the Cup, only for us to lose the game. When you're fighting for the PL, the top 4 and the CL, the margins are fine and a single mistake can be the difference. Jose has the luxury of shooting fish in barrels in the Europa group stages (not to mention a bigger subs bench being allowed along with more subs being allowed to come on as well)

It's is incredibly hard continuing to develop a CL team on a small budget (£100 million net over the entire 11 windows, with £70m of that in the very last window with players that the manager didn't actually get a chance to use). It is even harder to develop a CL team on such a small budget when the chairman consistently doesn't get you your first choice players and you're instead forced to make do. At some point when your rivals are spending more than you to progress, they will overtake you. That can only be expected unless you assume that every other team employs only idiots and you employ only geniuses?

5. By the end, it was clear his heart had gone out of it. His comment prior to the CL Final was hardly motivational. Starting a patently unfit Kane was a sign of his heart overruling his head. How do you drop a player who has just scored a hattrick in the semifinal is another rank decision.We failed to win away for over a year and the team looked shocking and had fallen to 14 th place. He apparently even stopped going to training sessions so Levy had no option.

I agree with you that his heart had gone out of it. I think Pochetino had got tired of being expected to keep on performing miracles. Teams with lower transfer budgets than their rivals and the 6th/7th biggest wage budget in their leagues can never be consistently successful in football. I actually think that if we had somehow won that CL final then Pochettino would've resigned and that would've been absolutely the right thing to do. He could've never surpassed, or even got near to, that achievement again at Spurs with the level of backing he received.

I completely agree with you that it was the wrong decision to play Kane and not Moura, especially considering the fact that you would always want Kane on for penalties at the end if it goes that far. I think it would've scared Liverpool to death having Kane coming on with 20 mins to go in that game (imagine if that chance that fell to Moura had fallen to Kane for example). I'm not sure it would've ultimately led to us winning that game though. Liverpool were simply better than us. Mainly because their owners had backed their manager those past couple of years and gone out and got the first choice players that the manager wanted.

I wish Poch luck in his new post and was glad he gave us a team to be proud of for a few years. But his legacy ? Not great.

Me too. I will be forever greatful for what he did at our club. His legacies?.... Taking us from a Europa League also ran to a team that could compete in and actually compete for the very biggest trophies in football. No longer were we simply hoping that we might win a Carabao Cup once every 15 years, but we were instead aiming to win the PL and the CL. However probably far more importantly than that the manager's legacy is ensuring that we could actually afford our stadium rebuild. Without those unexpected Champions League years the overspend on our stadium would've left us pretty close to bankruptcy right now (or if not then devoid of our few world class players through forced sales). The increased corporate revenue, sponsorship, prize money, TV money has all come from Pochettino over achieving for four years. Without that we would be seriously screwed financially right now and pinning our hopes on Joe Lewis doing something alien to him and pumping his own money in or a fairytale takeover by multibillionaire who wants to treat us as his plaything.

 

[StephenH]

I will be forever grateful for what he did at our club. His legacies?.... Taking us from a Europa League also-ran to a team that could compete in and actually compete for the very biggest trophies in football.

Totally agree.

 

[Bishop]

I think the manager always had a plan for how he would progress the team, the problem is that the chairman didn't share that same plan.

Pochettino wanted Sessegnon a year earlier to phase in to replace Rose. He wanted Grealish to phase in to replace Eriksen (which also would've allowed us to sell Eriksen for a decent amount with 18 to 12 months left on his contract). I think Ndombele was the Dembele replacement. He wanted Wjinaldum to drive our midfield. Wanted Mane so that we could have a front three of Mane, Kane, Son (would've been by far best in the league). Aurier was the Walker replacement (with Kyle Walker Peters being the player considered as the backup). Dele didn't need replacing, he was 23 years old when Poch was sacked, but even there Poch first wanted Bruno Fernandes (very, very gettable) and then Dybala as the alternative options there.

In terms of the youth players brought through, at various times he brought youth players into the team - Kane, Bentaleb, Mason, Townsend, Kyle Walker Peters, Edwards and of course Winks who actually looked a very good player indeed until some injuries hampered his development. I'm not sure which youth players Poch could've used really? He didn't have the luxury of easy group games in the Europa League in which you can hand out a few first team appearances like confetti as we were instead playing in the big boys league. I actually do remember him giving some of the youth players (Tanganga, Walker Peters, Skipp and Parrot) a chance against Colchester in the Cup, only for us to lose the game. When you're fighting for the PL, the top 4 and the CL, the margins are fine and a single mistake can be the difference. Jose has the luxury of shooting fish in barrels in the Europa group stages (not to mention a bigger subs bench being allowed along with more subs being allowed to come on as well)

It's is incredibly hard continuing to develop a CL team on a small budget (£100 million net over the entire 11 windows, with £70m of that in the very last window with players that the manager didn't actually get a chance to use). It is even harder to develop a CL team on such a small budget when the chairman consistently doesn't get you your first choice players and you're instead forced to make do. At some point when your rivals are spending more than you to progress, they will overtake you. That can only be expected unless you assume that every other team employs only idiots and you employ only geniuses?



I agree with you that his heart had gone out of it. I think Pochetino had got tired of being expected to keep on performing miracles. Teams with lower transfer budgets than their rivals and the 6th/7th biggest wage budget in their leagues can never be consistently successful in football. I actually think that if we had somehow won that CL final then Pochettino would've resigned and that would've been absolutely the right thing to do. He could've never surpassed, or even got near to, that achievement again at Spurs with the level of backing he received.

I completely agree with you that it was the wrong decision to play Kane and not Moura, especially considering the fact that you would always want Kane on for pelanties at the end if it goes that far. I think it would've scared Liverpool to death having Kane coming on with 20 mins to go in that game (imagine if that chance that fell to Moura had fallen to Kane for example). I'm not sure it would've ultimately led to us winning that game though. Liverpool were simply better than us. Mainly because their owners had backed their manager those past couple of years and gone out and got the first choice players that the manager wanted.



Me too. I will be forever greatful for what he did at our club. His legacies?.... Taking us from a Europa League also ran to a team that could compete in and actually compete for the very biggest trophies in football. No longer were we simply hoping that we might win a Carabao Cup once every 15 years, but we were instead aiming to win the PL and the CL. However probably far more importantly than that the manager's legacy is ensuring that we could actually afford our stadium rebuild. Without those unexpected Champions League years the overspend on our stadium would've left us pretty close to bankruptcy right now (or if not then devoid of our few world class players through forced sales). The increased corporate revenue, sponsorship, prize money, TV money has all come from Pochettino over achieving for four years. Without that we would be seriously screwed financially right now and pinning our hopes on Joe Lewis doing something alien to him and pumping his own money in or a fairytale takeover by multibillionaire who wants to treat us as his plaything.

Some of the responses to Poch now do seem a little entitled and ungrateful.

I think it's simple enough to say when he joined did anyone expect to get close to a league challenge or a CL final. I think most in truth would say no, so there isn't a lot to complain about.

That isn't to say he was faultless, no one is. But to say his period was unsuccessful seems a particularly cynical take.

 

[Pirate55]

@Finney Is Back You make a lot of very pertinent points. Many of which I agree with. However, for me the key thing is that Poch created a great first team and had indeed developed many of those players into class performers. I think we had the best first X1 in the League for a couple of years.

But, and this is the big but, he didn't manage to coach hardly any of our "raw material" buys into anything other than the level they joined us - same with our very promising (at one time) youth players. That to me is him not being able to develop players outside a very narrow group who he forged into a formidable team.

I also feel that as part of the supposed four man transfer committee (together with Levy, the head of recruitment and the head of the youth team) his voice should have been the dominant one - limited only by budget, especially wages (which kiboshed the Mane, Winaldum, Barkley and (unfortunately ultimately) Grealish deals). Notwithstanding that, he had ample opportunity to choose much better players than we actually recruited over the five years of his tenure.

 

[Finney Is Back]

@Finney Is Back You make a lot of very pertinent points. Many of which I agree with. However, for me the key thing is that Poch created a great first team and had indeed developed many of those players into class performers. I think we had the best first X1 in the League for a couple of years.

But, and this is the big but, he didn't manage to coach hardly any of our "raw material" buys into anything other than the level they joined us - same with our very promising (at one time) youth players. That to me is him not being able to develop players outside a very narrow group who he forged into a formidable team.

I also feel that as part of the supposed four man transfer committee (together with Levy, the head of recruitment and the head of the youth team) his voice should have been the dominant one - limited only by budget, especially wages (which kiboshed the Mane, Winaldum, Barkley and (unfortunately ultimately) Grealish deals). Notwithstanding that, he had ample opportunity to choose much better players than we actually recruited over the five years of his tenure.

The chairman let him down on signings IMO. He thought the manager could continue to walk on water and extract every last drop out of a talented but very small first team group. Even in his last summer at the club Poch was forced to sell Trippier to raise funds for other areas of the team that needed strengthening. Most teams with CL aspirations would keep both of their first team squad right back's to ensure they could have two players fighting for the shirt. Not us though.

It wasn't as if Pochettino was demanding unobtainable players either. Wijnaldum from a relegated Saudi Sportswashing Machine - transfer fee £25m. Mane from mid table Southampton £30m. Grealish from Championship Aston Villa £20m (had the chairman actually put in a decent offer quickly, early in the window as for example Leicester did when securing Maddison). None of those players should've been beyond us at the time. None were exorbitant transfer costs or outrageous wages. We were a champions league club that should've been looking for Champions League standard players who cost champions league level wages.

Unfortunately I don't suppose we'll ever know exactly how the transfer committee worked (unless we get a warts and all book from Poch). I do suspect though that he got tired of being forced to accept second rate alternatives to gettable players and can't help but wonder if that was why he refused to sign other players in the 2018 window when the chairman failed to deliver Grealish.

 

[parklane1]

I see this story about Grealish and Levy not agreeing a deal is still floating around, he agreed a deal for 25 million with the then owners. It was only after that deal had been accepted that the new owners came in and put a block on it saying no deals until the take over was completed ( for any players) if there was they threated to pull out of the deal.

Once the new owners took charge they doubled the fee that had already been agreed and it never went further.

 

[billyiddo]

I see this story about Grealish and Levy not agreeing a deal is still floating around, he agreed a deal for 25 million with the then owners. It was only after that deal had been accepted that the new owners came in and put a block on it saying no deals until the take over was completed ( for any players) if there was they threated to pull out of the deal.

Once the new owners took charge they doubled the fee that had already been agreed and it never went further.

Inside info?

 

[parklane1]

Inside info?

In this instance yes.

 

[Baleforce]

I don't think Trippier was sold to raise funds either, he forced his way out didn't he?

Similar to Eriksen, hence a very reasonable fee (although Levy doesn't sell for those does he...)

 

[Robspur12]

Sorry @Pirate55 I know we have been over these points time and time again but I feel so strongly that this post needs to be answered:-

2 He lucked into a team ripe for his methods ( young - Kane, Ali, Dier) (exceptionally quick full backs- Walker and Rose, quality CHs in Verts and Toby, and two world class players in Eriksen and Dembele) . He gets credit for buying Toby and Wanyama ( both of whom he knew from Soton) and Son. He deserves praise for moulding an exceptional team which was exciting to watch. We were probably the best team in England for a couple of years, but he failed to win anything.

He didn't luck into a team at all. He inherited a team that finished 6th in the league the previous season but was getting its arse handed to it every time it played anyone decent. Riven with dressing room factions led by mediocre players like Younes Kaboul and a talented yet totally unreliable striker. Danny Rose was the butt of most fans jokes, the magnificent 7 were, well not magnificent at all, but 1 probably stood out. He had a young striker in Kane who was a perennial loanee and very few fans would have predicted would become the collosus he has become. He wanted Schneiderlin and got Stambouli instead. He wanted another centre back and settled for Fazio. His midfield pivot was Bentaleb and Mason.

He stripped out that team and built a new one. That's not luck that's brilliant coaching. Top managers have a way of doing that just look how many players Ferguson "lucked out" on during 26 years.

3 My biggest grip with Poch was his performance in the transfer market. It seemed to me totally random and haphazard. We bought something like 26?players under him, spunking big money on Sanchez, Sissoko, NDombele, Sessegnon, LoCelso etc. How many have been successes? We wasted loads on Jansen and the N'Twins. We seemed to have no plan and he didn't improve hardly any of these " raw material" players which would have cemented his claim to be a great coach.

An extraordinary assessment of someone who bought Alderweireld, Son, ndombele, Lo celso and Wanyama. Sissoko Trippier Aurier Dier are not world beaters but have all been decent buys who've played important roles for Spurs. It's too early to judge Sessegnon who perhaps needs a different manager than Jose. Dele well he is extremely talented in my opinion. Poch also turned a profit on a clearly jaded Eriksen. Yes of course there have been failures but when you wanted Martial but settled for Janssen, when you wanted Schneiderlin but settled for Stambouli or Grealish and got nobody there will be mistakes. Look how many duds Arsenal have bought and moved on or United or Chelsea and they pay top dollar. When you're competing at the top but without paying the top wages you will make mistakes. Some of those players may even have turned out ok in teams down the PL but not for ones with Spurs' aspirations.

4. His lack of succession planning was a real Achilles heel. He let a great squad grow old and or jaded together. He sucked the life out of Wanyama, Dembele, Rose, Ali, without ever having a cogent plan to replace them.Which youth players did he bring through? Winks? Hardly a world beater. Most other promising youth players were seemingly never in his plans or he failed to bring them on. Again, not a sign of a great coach.

His lack of succession planning? Fudge me. There was no money for succession planning because of the stadium build. Which is why there were so many punts on mediocre squad players. How can you succession plan when you can't even get the players you want for your first team? Yes Yes managers cannot always get their first choice player yada yada. But if you do your homework on a player that fits in your system then you really do need that player or an alternative of a similar level or you risk making your team less competitive especially in the PL. A problem Spurs have had under every recent manager and the reason we never use our league cup wins as a platform for something bigger. That he managed us to 4 CL qualifications and a final is absolutely remarkable given these obstacles. No other manager in recent years has been as successful in building on the previous season with a similar level of success in the following one. It doesn't look like a manager as great as Jose will do that either ( I am sure we didn't employ Jose Mourinho to win us the Carabao Cup), emphasing again to fans what Poch achieved during his tenure. I think the one negative that I could see from his time is the number of players his methods probably broke. But it is difficult for me to judge whether pushing players that hard was necessary for us to achieve what he did.

But his legacy ? Not great.

His legacy? Probably the best striker in the world with an untold price on his head. Dele Alli, Son Heung Min, earning money that enabled us to complete the stadium. Your assessment of Poch is so one eyed it's incredible. When someone comes along who surpasses Poch then I will say that we have finally got over getting rid of the guy. But I fear if someone with managerial CV of Jose cannot do it then we may be waiting a while.

 

[Pirate55]

Sorry @Pirate55 I know we have been over these points time and time again but I feel so strongly that this post needs to be answered:-


He didn't luck into a team at all. He inherited a team that finished 6th in the league the previous season but was getting its arse handed to it every time it played anyone decent. Riven with dressing room factions led by mediocre players like Younes Kaboul and a talented yet totally unreliable striker. Danny Rose was the butt of most fans jokes, the magnificent 7 were, well not magnificent at all, but 1 probably stood out. He had a young striker in Kane who was a perennial loanee and very few fans would have predicted would become the collosus he has become. He wanted Schneiderlin and got Stambouli instead. He wanted another centre back and settled for Fazio. His midfield pivot was Bentaleb and Mason.

He stripped out that team and built a new one. That's not luck that's brilliant coaching. Top managers have a way of doing that just look how many players Ferguson "lucked out" on during 26 years.

An extraordinary assessment of someone who bought Alderweireld, Son, ndombele, Lo celso and Wanyama. Sissoko Trippier Aurier Dier are not world beaters but have all been decent buys who've played important roles for Spurs. It's too early to judge Sessegnon who perhaps needs a different manager than Jose. Dele well he is extremely talented in my opinion. Poch also turned a profit on a clearly jaded Eriksen. Yes of course there have been failures but when you wanted Martial but settled for Janssen, when you wanted Schneiderlin but settled for Stambouli or Grealish and got nobody there will be mistakes. Look how many duds Arsenal have bought and moved on or United or Chelsea and they pay top dollar. When you're competing at the top but without paying the top wages you will make mistakes. Some of those players may even have turned out ok in teams down the PL but not for ones with Spurs' aspirations.

His lack of succession planning? Fudge me. There was no money for succession planning because of the stadium build. Which is why there were so many punts on mediocre squad players. How can you succession plan when you can't even get the players you want for your first team? Yes Yes managers cannot always get their first choice player yada yada. But if you do your homework on a player that fits in your system then you really do need that player or an alternative of a similar level or you risk making your team less competitive especially in the PL. A problem Spurs have had under every recent manager and the reason we never use our league cup wins as a platform for something bigger. That he managed us to 4 CL qualifications and a final is absolutely remarkable given these obstacles. No other manager in recent years has been as successful in building on the previous season with a similar level of success in the following one. It doesn't look like a manager as great as Jose will do that either ( I am sure we didn't employ Jose Mourinho to win us the Carabao Cup), emphasing again to fans what Poch achieved during his tenure. I think the one negative that I could see from his time is the number of players his methods probably broke. But it is difficult for me to judge whether pushing players that hard was necessary for us to achieve what he did.


His legacy? Probably the best striker in the world with an untold price on his head. Dele Alli, Son Heung Min, earning money that enabled us to complete the stadium. Your assessment of Poch is so one eyed it's incredible. When someone comes along who surpasses Poch then I will say that we have finally got over getting rid of the guy. But I fear if someone with managerial CV of Jose cannot do it then we may be waiting a while.

Let's see what his future career brings before making a judgement. PSG with their limitless money and one team league, should be a staging ground for him to win multiple Champions Leagues if your assessment of his coaching abilities is to hold water.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Sorry @Pirate55 I know we have been over these points time and time again but I feel so strongly that this post needs to be answered:-


He didn't luck into a team at all. He inherited a team that finished 6th in the league the previous season but was getting its arse handed to it every time it played anyone decent. Riven with dressing room factions led by mediocre players like Younes Kaboul and a talented yet totally unreliable striker. Danny Rose was the butt of most fans jokes, the magnificent 7 were, well not magnificent at all, but 1 probably stood out. He had a young striker in Kane who was a perennial loanee and very few fans would have predicted would become the collosus he has become. He wanted Schneiderlin and got Stambouli instead. He wanted another centre back and settled for Fazio. His midfield pivot was Bentaleb and Mason.

He stripped out that team and built a new one. That's not luck that's brilliant coaching. Top managers have a way of doing that just look how many players Ferguson "lucked out" on during 26 years.

An extraordinary assessment of someone who bought Alderweireld, Son, ndombele, Lo celso and Wanyama. Sissoko Trippier Aurier Dier are not world beaters but have all been decent buys who've played important roles for Spurs. It's too early to judge Sessegnon who perhaps needs a different manager than Jose. Dele well he is extremely talented in my opinion. Poch also turned a profit on a clearly jaded Eriksen. Yes of course there have been failures but when you wanted Martial but settled for Janssen, when you wanted Schneiderlin but settled for Stambouli or Grealish and got nobody there will be mistakes. Look how many duds Arsenal have bought and moved on or United or Chelsea and they pay top dollar. When you're competing at the top but without paying the top wages you will make mistakes. Some of those players may even have turned out ok in teams down the PL but not for ones with Spurs' aspirations.

His lack of succession planning? Fudge me. There was no money for succession planning because of the stadium build. Which is why there were so many punts on mediocre squad players. How can you succession plan when you can't even get the players you want for your first team? Yes Yes managers cannot always get their first choice player yada yada. But if you do your homework on a player that fits in your system then you really do need that player or an alternative of a similar level or you risk making your team less competitive especially in the PL. A problem Spurs have had under every recent manager and the reason we never use our league cup wins as a platform for something bigger. That he managed us to 4 CL qualifications and a final is absolutely remarkable given these obstacles. No other manager in recent years has been as successful in building on the previous season with a similar level of success in the following one. It doesn't look like a manager as great as Jose will do that either ( I am sure we didn't employ Jose Mourinho to win us the Carabao Cup), emphasing again to fans what Poch achieved during his tenure. I think the one negative that I could see from his time is the number of players his methods probably broke. But it is difficult for me to judge whether pushing players that hard was necessary for us to achieve what he did.


His legacy? Probably the best striker in the world with an untold price on his head. Dele Alli, Son Heung Min, earning money that enabled us to complete the stadium. Your assessment of Poch is so one eyed it's incredible. When someone comes along who surpasses Poch then I will say that we have finally got over getting rid of the guy. But I fear if someone with managerial CV of Jose cannot do it then we may be waiting a while.

Just gonna add
Kane has become what he has because of Kane, no one else
He is the best at what he does because his sole focus has been and still is on making himself the best he can be
The rest I agree with by the way

 

[Robspur12]

Let's see what his future career brings before making a judgement. PSG with their limitless money and one team league, should be a staging ground for him to win multiple Champions Leagues if your assessment of his coaching abilities is to hold water.

Whatever he achieves or doesn't achieve elsewhere does not detract from what he achieved at Spurs. It's sounds like there a small band of spurs fans who've convinced themselves that Poch is a failure because he hasnt won any trophies.

 

[Pirate55]

Whatever he achieves or doesn't achieve elsewhere does not detract from what he achieved at Spurs. It's sounds like there a small band of spurs fans who've convinced themselves that Poch is a failure because he hasnt won any trophies.

Not a failure, no. I have never said that. A disappointment at the end, to me at least. He had gold dust in his hands and unfortunately blew it.

 

[Baleforce]

Just gonna add
Kane has become what he has because of Kane, no one else
He is the best at what he does because his sole focus has been and still is on making himself the best he can be
The rest I agree with by the way

I think you still need the faith and work of coaches in the development stage too.