Next Manager?

[thfcsteff]

The biggest problem is that most of the rubbish is not coming from within the club. The sad thing imo is that there are a lot of folks who SEEM to believe everything they read and then scream and bitch when it does not happen.

I can tell you that this latest dance with Conte -and the subsequent leaks about both Poch and him- most certainly HAVE been partially ceded by the club. Believe it or don't.

My issue with it not happening is not the fact it didn't (I think Conte would be the wrong fit) it is with the fools who thought it was a good PR move to use the media as a speaker system. Do I think it was a ruse to coax ST holders? Absolutely not. I think it is amateur incompetence.

Remember, we managed to keep Mourinho's appt silent until the day despite the fact he'd been at the stadium several times.

 

[Crab.C.Nesbitt]

I can tell you that this latest dance with Conte -and the subsequent leaks about both Poch and him- most certainly HAVE been partially ceded by the club. Believe it or don't.

My issue with it not happening is not the fact it didn't (I think Conte would be the wrong fit) it is with the fools who thought it was a good PR move to use the media as a speaker system. Do I think it was a ruse to coax ST holders? Absolutely not. I think it is amateur incompetence.

Remember, we managed to keep Mourinho's appt silent until the day despite the fact he'd been at the stadium several times.

The question is does amateur incompetence make things any better than it being a deceptive/purposeful ruse?

I'd argue not. Either way it's a clusterfudge and leads to serious questions being asked about the adequacy of the leadership within spurs.

It's not just amateur incompetence in terms of leakage/pr. It's amateur incompetence in terms of developing a strategy and seeing it through to completion. Which is much more important.

 

[thfcsteff]

The question is does amateur incompetence make things any better than it being a deceptive/purposeful ruse?

I'd argue not. Either way it's a clusterfudge and leads to serious questions being asked about the adequacy of the leadership within spurs.

It's not just amateur incompetence in terms of leakage/pr. It's amateur incompetence in terms of developing a strategy and seeing it through to completion. Which is much more important.

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Bishop]

The question is does amateur incompetence make things any better than it being a deceptive/purposeful ruse?

I'd argue not. Either way it's a clusterfudge and leads to serious questions being asked about the adequacy of the leadership within spurs.

It's not just amateur incompetence in terms of leakage/pr. It's amateur incompetence in terms of developing a strategy and seeing it through to completion. Which is much more important.

I'd rather think he just doesn't give a fudge than the other option. If he makes cold hearted business decisions then I can accept that and I have many years ago. It means I just want him to make better more thoughtful and more proactive decisions than he has done.

If instead he does care but is just incompetent than there is less hope for improvement, it's been 20 years it's just not going to happen if incompetence is the cause. He won't have the understanding of why he gets it wrong.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Ali Gold, Dan KP, JPB and Matt Law all pumping the story at the exact same time.

I think you are doing exactly what they want you to do. We showed ambition, so you’re comfortable that the owners actually have ambition, regardless of the fact that they aren’t following through.

Also please tell me how it’s been proven Gold doesn’t have a line to the club? He’s reliable. It doesn’t mean he is always going to speak positively about the club, but they definitely use him to pump stories.

What is the story that you have mentioned a few times? All I recall at that time is reports from those journalists that we were in talks with Conte. And I am sad enough to have just had a quick look back on Dan KP's and JPB's timelines to see what they were posting and that's pretty much it, although JPB says Conte is now our main target (which he likely just deduced from us being in active talks).
If that's the story, and you're saying the club fed that info, and they shouldn't have done, then yes I'd agree it would be better if they didn't confirm or comment on any rumours, if indeed they did. But it's hardly enough on which to base some great season-ticket-fraud conspiracy theory.

 

[billyiddo]

Your first point is just…not what I was saying. Obviously I’m talking about how much they can be trusted with respect to Spurs news. Those 3 can be. Come on.

To your second point: season ticket renewals.

I don’t think I am jumping to conclusions by understanding that PR is a thing, that we employ a senior PR person at the club who reports to Levy, and that the owners may use that to benefit their position. It’s happened more than enough times now, deals falling apart to factors that either don’t make sense or that could have been predicted before the negotiation started. But for those brief moments, the fan base thinks this time things might really be different. I certainly did…ten pages ago.

And really, whether or not you agree with me, as far as I can see are the one in the much smaller minority of Spurs fans right now, as it relates to the reaction to this news and the views on Levy and ENIC in general. Of course a majority doesn’t have a right to be right, but whether or not you agree with me, many more people are coming around to some of these ideas and it’s going to be a thing ENIC need to deal with. A large section of the fans are not on their side right now - the end of season walk around a case in point.

You’re absolutely right, it is who we get and who we back that shows how serious we are. And there’s a clear drop off between Conte and Poch, and anyone else. The argument that it’s just a few fans being paranoid doesn’t hold up. It’s a problem for ENIC that so many people think they are not to be trusted.

There is no positive press or image of ambition to be gained from talking to a Conte or Poch level manager and then not following through with that type of appointment though - how are you hoping to look good by showing the world you can't attract the best managers available, even though they are seemingly happy to sit down with you in the first place?

There are plenty of reasons to be negative on the handling of this managerial hunt and going back further the last couple of managerial decisions (Poch sacking/Jose appointed) without having to don the tin foil hat to suggest they'd willingly damage the reputation of the club and it's ambitions over the sales of a few thousand season tickets that would almost certainly get picked up by those on the waiting list anyway.

 

[fernadez]

Seems to be a number of reports linking us with selling players.

Who's making these decisions then? Even if the players are generally deemed surplus to requirements surely the manager is meant to have a bit of a say on this.

 

[Kandi1977]

There is no such thing as a long term manager anymore. A study in March showed that the average premier league manager is in charge for 69 games. Most coaches won’t be here for more than 2-3 years….

And how many trophies did the average manager win in 69 games?
Probably not many. So, what's wrong then? The managers or the 'system'?

 

[billyiddo]

Seems to be a number of reports linking us with selling players.

Who's making these decisions then? Even if the players are generally deemed surplus to requirements surely the manager is meant to have a bit of a say on Derp

People want the club to have a DoF style setup but then also want to complain that we are working on moving players in/out whilst the first team coach isn't in place? That's one of the benefits of having that structure, things not grinding to a halt without a manager and there being a medium to long term view of player turnover not completely tied to short term thinking.

 

[Hotshot-Tottenham]

But it non-figuratively didn’t do that with ETH or Potter. The heat never got turned up with them. They were linked, people probably assumed there were talks, no biggie.

The heat got turned up with Poch and Conte because good journos respected for their links to the club were talking about them as THE targets. That comes from the club. And I would say, on Glory Glory there is still a fundamentally pro-ENIC slant, but almost everywhere else Spurs fans are discussing this, they absolutely believe that the club might have done this to boost the season ticket renewals. This place is an outlier in that respect.

The argument against it seems to be ‘Nooo, the club would not use the media in that way’, which frankly I just find naive. Any institution that relies on the support of a fan base will use the media.

To what end though?

Ok, the club might get a couple of days of “interesting” press and social media going mad, but then they just get the backlash when it doesn’t happen.

It doesn’t really sound like a good PR strategy.

 

[relic58]

Seems to be a number of reports linking us with selling players.

Who's making these decisions then? Even if the players are generally deemed surplus to requirements surely the manager is meant to have a bit of a say on Derp

The players agents

 

[ShipOfTheseus]

People want the club to have a DoF style setup but then also want to complain that we are working on moving players in/out whilst the first team coach isn't in place? That's one of the benefits of having that structure, things not grinding to a halt without a manager and there being a medium to long term view of player turnover not completely tied to short term thinking.

I guess the issue is that if we do have an incoming DoF it seems to be a glorified scout with a chequered past whose only recommendation is that he is a mate of the madman with whom we had a brief, public and horribly embarrassing flirtation, who is apparently going to job-share with Hitchen in a convoluted structure, and who doesn’t really inspire confidence as a long-term determinant of our playing, training, recruitment and retention strategy. Otherwise, our DoF is essentially Mr Byrite.

 

[relic58]

I think that what we are experiencing here is a classic case of ‘change fatigue’ from within the club and amongst the supporters. This has been exasperated by new stadium build, the Covid situation and Kanes future.

The need for any positive has lead to many false hopes to try and end the scenarios circulating within peoples minds.The same things keep cropping up again and again. Truth is we don’t know whats been going on. We have no say in it and that makes us anxious. The club is riding on a PR disaster though and has to learn from it. It is widely assumed that the director of football has been appointed but there is no mention of it from the club. What if the bloke doesn’t turn up after all?

The supporters do deserve better, as do the employees of the club at all levels. A simple statement of intent from the club would go a long way, even if it were only a ‘we are just as frustrated as you are’. It wont happen though.

Until the ‘it is with great pleasure’ announcement is made we will be none the wiser. That will probably be made on an England match day to deflect some of the attention.

 

[Legohamster]

Seems to be a number of reports linking us with selling players.

Who's making these decisions then? Even if the players are generally deemed surplus to requirements surely the manager is meant to have a bit of a say on Derp

Good, very good.

least something positive is happening

 

[billyiddo]

I guess the issue is that if we do have an incoming DoF it seems to be a glorified scout with a chequered past whose only recommendation is that he is a mate of the madman with whom we had a brief, public and horribly embarrassing flirtation, who is apparently going to job-share with Hitchen in a convoluted structure, and who doesn’t really inspire confidence as a long-term determinant of our playing, training, recruitment and retention strategy. Otherwise, our DoF is essentially Mr Byrite.

My guess is that the Italian fella who supposedly is a Hitchen associate will be coming to work under him like he worked under Marotti at Juve - with rumours of Hitchen drawing up the shortlist for the manager position i don't see him being replaced by the new guy. By all means complain if you think Hitchen aint up to the job but i don't really see any consistency in arguing we need a DoF only to complain when we are operating like we have one

 

[Lilbaz]

My guess is that the Italian fella who supposedly is a Hitchen associate will be coming to work under him like he worked under Marotti at Juve - with rumours of Hitchen drawing up the shortlist for the manager position i don't see him being replaced by the new guy. By all means complain if you think Hitchen aint up to the job but i don't really see any consistency in arguing we need a DoF only to complain when we are operating like we have one

After marotti left paratici was promted to fill his position. He's not going to step down coming here. More like hitchen will work under him like he did with marotti. Basically doing the same role he is now but reporting to paratici instead of levy. Hitchen might get a pay bump to keep him sweet.

 

[ShipOfTheseus]

My guess is that the Italian fella who supposedly is a Hitchen associate will be coming to work under him like he worked under Marotti at Juve - with rumours of Hitchen drawing up the shortlist for the manager position i don't see him being replaced by the new guy. By all means complain if you think Hitchen aint up to the job but i don't really see any consistency in arguing we need a DoF only to complain when we are operating like we have one

Flip-flopping from Hitchen’s shortlist to the Conte debacle is not “operating like you have a DoF”. @fernadez makes a completely fair point: while the club gives every impression of not knowing what it is up to and being open to absolutely anything, snap decisions on player transfers are a little perturbing. @milo said something sensible elsewhere about cashing in on Moura if we’re reverting to possession football; the problem is that the club could pick anyone with a plausible CV and a nice smile who prefers counterattacking.

 

[billyiddo]

Flip-flopping from Hitchen’s shortlist to the Conte debacle is not “operating like you have a DoF”. @fernadez makes a completely fair point: while the club gives every impression of not knowing what it is up to and being open to absolutely anything, snap decisions on player transfers are a little perturbing. @milo said something sensible elsewhere about cashing in on Moura if we’re reverting to possession football; the problem is that the club could pick anyone with a plausible CV and a nice smile who prefers counterattacking.

I didn't say it was, i said selling/buying players without a manager is how a club run by a DoF works - which is fact plain and simple. Nevermind the fact we don't know which manager is on whose list, but i doubt very much anyone looking to win trophies and challenge for big honors here will be shedding a tear over us trimming our squad of players like Winks & Moura. That's before you factor in that players have their own motives and contract situations that may lead to them being want away as opposed to shown the door.

 

[fernadez]

People want the club to have a DoF style setup but then also want to complain that we are working on moving players in/out whilst the first team coach isn't in place? That's one of the benefits of having that structure, things not grinding to a halt without a manager and there being a medium to long term view of player turnover.

Our DOF hasn't even started in his role yet, and the point of one is to work alongside the manager surely. I'm not saying the manager should have the over riding decision, but he should be involved in the process. You think a top top manager would accept having no input into the staff he is working with? That makes no sense.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Maybe the club are just sounding out offers on certain players more likely to be moved on so that when the new manager is in, along with the DoF, they already have some of the leg work done? If they were substantive rumours about selling Son or NDombele or Lo Celso or players of that ilk I’d be a bit more concerned perhaps. But no one has actually been sold as yet.