Next Manager?

[Baleforce]

Is he really a quick fix...
It took him a full season at Chelsea second time and also at Madrid I believe
Chelsea first time had been winning things and invested a lot but hadn’t got the big one
At inter they won the league the year before he joined
At real it was his second season he won the title
Second time at Chelsea he finished 3rd I think and win it second season
At united he took over the team that had won the FA duo and in his first season he won the UEFA and league cups and came second in his next season before it all went wrong

I guess like everything in football it’s perceptions and opinions

He's been here 14 months, I guess it feels longer due to last seasons truncated schedule. He's had 69 games with 16 defeats.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

He's been here 14 months, I guess it feels longer due to last seasons truncated schedule. He's had 69 games with 16 defeats.

He has been here 14 months
Although I’d argue 2 or 3 of them were very “unique” due to COVID and no player contact
And of course like all clubs this summer or pre season, or whatever it was called was a shambles
But it is what it is for everyone on that front

 

[Baleforce]

He has been here 14 months
Although I’d argue 2 or 3 of them were very “unique” due to COVID and no player contact
And of course like all clubs this summer or pre season, or whatever it was called was a shambles
But it is what it is for everyone on that front

I agree with you, if we did anything this season that would be a really quick fix.

Some would say you need a year to do anything in the PL, not that I think a blanket rule such as that is ever valid.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I agree with you, if we did anything this season that would be a really quick fix.

Some would say you need a year to do anything in the PL, not that I think a blanket rule such as that is ever valid.

Depends who the man in charge is and how good the team was before hand
There the key things
Some people (Jose said it publicly) Venice we had a great squad and we have added to it
I’d argue that some of the additions have. Eve great (reggie and Hojdjberg) and getting a tune out of Tanguy has been brilliant
I guess my concern is how many of the players that were here before hand have actually shown anything like those form from 3 years ago
I’d say son and Kane abs arguably Aurier has improved. Quite a few are playing at the same level they were since we lost to wolves in December 18 i think

 

[LincsSpur]

Not convinced with him tbh

Just a thought

 

[Finney Is Back]

Just sticking with the theme of spending money
In the £76m net spend under Jose we now have brought 6 players
That’s £12m per player if you take off the loan fee from Vinny as we don’t own him
Artetas net spend in that period is £64m for 6 players so an average of 10.7m
They are currently behind us
Aston Villa have spent £92.56m in that period for the same amount of players ... their behind us
I use Arsenal and Villa as examples as their ones that’s are deemed to be progressive
That’s the level were at actual spending wise so far

leicster under Rogers may be a better example as their ahead of us currently
They had two big sales in the summer windows. Brought no one in January so over the same period Jose has been here their net spend is only £9.2m all be it to buy only 2 players, but impressive none the less
Pool spent £40.5m net over the same period to buy 4 players outright
United spent £117.36m net in the same period for 5 players
City spent £99.14m net in that period too

Suddenly you’re using net spend I see Bedford? Maybe my memory playing tricks with me but I’m sure you always liked to quote gross spend when referring to Poch’s time at the club?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Hence why I don’t
You did when you said players brought in
I also didnt include Gio in the number of purchase even though his spend is in the numbers as I think it’s wrong
If we did it would on paper be 7 purchases and even less investment per player

You need to include him. Mourinho bought him. He could’ve chosen to use the £30 odd million differently but didn’t.

 

[Finney Is Back]

The season has turned into an absolute car crash but 6 weeks ago it looked like we'd walk the league.

I think as soon as the players realised this they shat themselves and pushed the eject button as that was the easy way out.

I think the turn instead came when teams worked out our whole game plan was to suck them in, get it to Kane dropping deep quickly after a turnover and have him feed Son running from the left towards the centre.
The opposition now man-mark Kane when he drops deep and foul him if he manages to turn.

Of course now he is out we have no attacking guile at all.

 

[Finney Is Back]

we almost scored today and Hugo didn’t break his arm so it’s an improvement
It was ducking woeful though
The players are lazy scum
They should all give their wages away after that
Too many players too comfortable here

Think our XG might’ve been higher in the 3-0!

 

[Finney Is Back]

I've posted previously as a fact that mourinho is NOT a chequebook manager but has spent money at clubs that ply that model. He was just as successful at inter and Porto where he had limited funds.

Ofcourse any manager that takes over Chelsea or real Madrid its almost a given that they need to spend the money to appease the owners and supporters.

Inter spent huge amounts on transfers and wages.

 

[Bishop]

Inter spent huge amounts on transfers and wages.

Jose has pretty much always had the most financially dominant side in every league he's been in (apart from the second spell at Chelsea) When he hasn't had that, the *success* hasn't been so easy to come by.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Jose has pretty much always had the most financially dominant side in every league he's been in (apart from the second spell at Chelsea) When he hasn't had that, the *success* hasn't been so easy to come by.

I'm not his biggest fan but winning the Champions League with Porto, regardless of their dominance in the Portuguese league, was an outstanding performance. After that, I agree that, he made the right career moves (until United) that made his life easier but having money to spend isn't synonymous with success.

You could also make the same argument for Guardiola, minus the performance with Porto.

 

[Gazza]

Inter spent huge amounts on transfers and wages.

Simply not true.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jose-mourinho/spielertransfers/trainer/781/station_id/12558/plus/1

 

[Bishop]

I'm not his biggest fan but winning the Champions League with Porto, regardless of their dominance in the Portuguese league, was an outstanding performance. After that, I agree that, he made the right career moves (until United) that made his life easier but having money to spend isn't synonymous with success.

You could also make the same argument for Guardiola, minus the performance with Porto.

It is indeed also true of Pep and a valid criticism of his career also. Winning the CL with Porto was highly, highly impressive but it was on the back of having the most dominant side in its domestic league with players used to winning. A real accomplishment either way.

Simply not true.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jose-mourinho/spielertransfers/trainer/781/station_id/12558/plus/1

@Finney Is Back said Inter had spent massively not Mourinho and it's true Inter did spend massively for years unsustainably in fact. Besides which the fees spent under Jose reign weren't small, they weren't the highest but they weren't small either. The part you missed was the wage spend which many seem to look over when thinking about the money a club spends on players. Inter were indeed a top dog in that respect hence the the level of player they could attract.

They’re in the same range as Barcelona’s 2008/09 costs of €362 million, the only difference being that Barcelona’s revenue was much higher at €364 million.

Basically, the impressive 2009 revenue growth of €24 million has been wiped out (and then some) by cost growth of €38 million, which is entirely down to staff costs: salaries €25 million and player amortisation €15 million.

The total wage bill stands at a jaw-dropping €205 million, which produces a wages to turnover ratio of 104%, way beyond any common sense let alone financial prudence.

There has been a significant increase in wages over the last two years, rising from €162 million in 2007. In the accounts, the club explains last year’s growth as being due to new players and an increase in bonus payments.

The first part is accurate, as the players’ headcount increased by six, but the second part is nonsense, as the bonus payments actually fell from €28 million to €25 million. Whatever.

The fact is that Inter’s payroll is much higher than other Italian clubs: Milan paid €177 million, while the Juventus wage bill was only €130 million. Inter even paid more out in salaries than those well-known big spenders Real Madrid (€187 million), for heaven’s sake.

 

[Baleforce]

Winning the CL with Inter is a massive achievement, they hadn't done so for 40 odd years, yes they were dominant in their league, in large part due to mismanagement at Milan and Juve though, but there were better squads in the CL, both Spanish teams, Bayern, United.

At Porto, he didn't spend that much to rebuild the squad, they were in a bit of a funk domestically and hadn't won the title for some time, he didn't sign any established names for big money and they won the title at a canter, its easy to look at that group of players now and think they were all superstars, but that wasn't the case when they arrived at Porto.

 

[Bishop]

Winning the CL with Inter is a massive achievement, they hadn't done so for 40 odd years, yes they were dominant in their league, in large part due to mismanagement at Milan and Juve though, but there were better squads in the CL, both Spanish teams, Bayern, United.

At Porto, he didn't spend that much to rebuild the squad, they were in a bit of a funk domestically and hadn't won the title for some time, he didn't sign any established names for big money and they won the title at a canter, its easy to look at that group of players now and think they were all superstars, but that wasn't the case when they arrived at Porto.

The Porto players weren't global superstars but they were some of the leading lights of the Portuguese league. Porto were picking up the top talents and players from the smaller clubs in their league much like Manchester United used to in the Premier League to teams like ourselves in the Fergie era.

It doesn't diminish Mourinho's success but it is what it is.

 

[Mr Gogolak]

It is indeed also true of Pep and a valid criticism of his career also. Winning the CL with Porto was highly, highly impressive but it was on the back of having the most dominant side in its domestic league with players used to winning. A real accomplishment either way.

He had a bit of luck on his side too as I think they played Monaco in the final and Deportivo La Coruna in the semis. Both teams were on a par with his Porto side, but even in 2004, they could have been drawn against tougher opposition. I can't be bothered to check it out, but I think they played Lyon in the previous round - a team in a similar position without ever managing the same feat.

Come to think of it, I can't really think of a manager who made it to the very top of European football after beginning their career in a (relatively) small club. Then again, managers have such short lifespans these days that there are very few 'big names'. The fact that Zidane and Flick made it into that category after one CL win is telling...

 

[billyiddo]

He had a bit of luck on his side too as I think they played Monaco in the final and Deportivo La Coruna in the semis. Both teams were on a par with his Porto side, but even in 2004, they could have been drawn against tougher opposition. I can't be bothered to check it out, but I think they played Lyon in the previous round - a team in a similar position without ever managing the same feat.

Come to think of it, I can't really think of a manager who made it to the very top of European football after beginning their career in a (relatively) small club. Then again, managers have such short lifespans these days that there are very few 'big names'. The fact that Zidane and Flick made it into that category after one CL win is telling...

Unless I'm misunderstanding you wouldn't Klopp qualify having started at Mainz? Benetiz must have started somewhere small too


You can't argue against Mourinhos achievements in the game or that he wasnt the best manager of that era.

 

[Bishop]

He had a bit of luck on his side too as I think they played Monaco in the final and Deportivo La Coruna in the semis. Both teams were on a par with his Porto side, but even in 2004, they could have been drawn against tougher opposition. I can't be bothered to check it out, but I think they played Lyon in the previous round - a team in a similar position without ever managing the same feat.

Come to think of it, I can't really think of a manager who made it to the very top of European football after beginning their career in a (relatively) small club. Then again, managers have such short lifespans these days that there are very few 'big names'. The fact that Zidane and Flick made it into that category after one CL win is telling...

Hmm it used to be the case, I'd say most managers up until around the mid 2000s had actually worked their way to the top as opposed to just being talent scouted and given the role. Fergie is the obvious example. Mourinho even did the same coming from Leirea before Porto.

Nowadays, name prestige seems to play just as big a role as an actual CV coupled with what I think is a foolish way of looking at things "what have they won?"

 

[Baleforce]

He had a bit of luck on his side too as I think they played Monaco in the final and Deportivo La Coruna in the semis. Both teams were on a par with his Porto side, but even in 2004, they could have been drawn against tougher opposition. I can't be bothered to check it out, but I think they played Lyon in the previous round - a team in a similar position without ever managing the same feat.

Come to think of it, I can't really think of a manager who made it to the very top of European football after beginning their career in a (relatively) small club. Then again, managers have such short lifespans these days that there are very few 'big names'. The fact that Zidane and Flick made it into that category after one CL win is telling...

Di Matteo, Sir Alex