New New Manager Poll (The Lets Get It Right This Time Edition)

[spurspinter1]

Did you watch us play under Conte at all? Predictable football, often completely outplayed tactically by just about every mediocre ass manager in the league, didn't use subs, didn't get squad players into any kind of position to help the team when needed/called upon, played out of form players for months on end.

Outside of a ten game spell at the end of last season, largely caried by Bentancur and Deki, there is nothing in Conte's time at Spurs to suggest he's a top manager, nothing.

Howe, Emry, De Zerbi, Silva have all done a managers job this season, when you look at what those guys have done without a Son & Kane in their team, you realize how bad a job Conte did. And to be clear, I don't think Conte is brick, I think he was brick for us.

If we were that bad, how were we in 4th place in contention for a top four place before he left? It is genuinely a mystery to me but it's a fact.

Conte's time at Spurs is not an indicator as to whether he's a top manager, that's not in doubt as we can drag any level of manager down. Perhaps it's time to stop posting for me tonight as I don't think a manager good enough to take us to the next level in this league exists, if it's with the current group of players.

Having a "Kane and a Son in the team" counts for very little other than breaking Spurs records. Other teams out there somehow achieve things without this combination of player, year upon year. All of the managers you mentioned as doing a great job are only hoping to do what Conte did last season or less, ie finish in the top four. So it depends on the parameters of success.

Firing Conte when in 4th makes complete sense even if we slip down to 7th by the seasons end but firing Poch when we were 14th was an outrage that certain posters continue to harp on about. It's fascinating.

 

[Raziel]

If we were that bad, how were we in 4th place in contention for a top four place before he left? It is genuinely a mystery to me but it's a fact.

Conte's time at Spurs is not an indicator as to whether he's a top manager, that's not in doubt as we can drag any level of manager down. Perhaps it's time to stop posting for me tonight as I don't think a manager good enough to take us to the next level in this league exists, if it's with the current group of players.

Having a "Kane and a Son in the team" counts for very little other than breaking Spurs records. Other teams out there somehow achieve things without this combination of player, year upon year. All of the managers you mentioned as doing a great job are only hoping to do what Conte did last season or less, ie finish in the top four. So it depends on the parameters of success.

Firing Conte when in 4th makes complete sense even if we slip down to 7th by the seasons end but firing Poch when we were 14th was an outrage that certain posters continue to harp on about. It's fascinating.

Fwiw, I don't think any of the managers we fired post Jol were a mistake at time of firing (Should they have been appointed? different question/conversation)

Being able to score as much as anyone but the top 2 teams in the league does mean something mate, it's the difference between us and Chelsea this season

 

[thfcsteff]

As my first post said, there's no proof. It suits the posters who have been laying on to Conte throughout. No quotes (from what I saw but I might be wrong on that!) so it's just conjecture. Things are made up for the sake of discussion that's kind of the modern world summed up.

I personally think that Conte just had high standards that the club couldn't meet that goes beyond simply who the manager is. He did truly care and wanted to improve things and take us places. Arguably it was his fault for joining us in the first place as there was enough evidence, and we'll continue to provide evidence for this being the case as a club when we get in either another Nuno or another "serial winner".

Edit - It obviously depends on mindset. Many, to take hope will be sticking up two fingers at the likes of Conte and Jose making out they weren't good enough for the club and will latch on to any press that besmirches them. Others will look at what both have and will achieve in the game outside of the Spurs perspective. Whatever keeps the hope alive I guess, but how the players have collectively responded since Conte left (apart from Skipp) doesn't fill me with hope. Just a longing for the season to end. Yet another season where the best thing is for it to be over.

Personally, the thing I was most excited about when we got Conte was that it appeared we had a top manager who at the first sign of not getting what he wanted would either walk or blow the boardroom up via a press conference.

The evidence suggests that either he -

a) got what he wanted or
b) decided to stay quiet despite being unhappy

I'd be happier if it was the former. The whole undoing then makes more sense.

If the latter, I have to say it is a remarkable state of affairs that he allowed himself to get 'Levy'd' in such a way, and it leaves me thinking much less of him.

I said when Ventrone passed that we were seeing a deeply troubled man as Ventrone was his 'consigliari' of sorts, and I remain convinced it was a deep part of why his management got increasingly poor.

 

[thfcsteff]

Firing Conte when in 4th makes complete sense even if we slip down to 7th by the seasons end but firing Poch when we were 14th was an outrage that certain posters continue to harp on about. It's fascinating.

Because Pochettino -

*changed the way the club and fans operated i.e. reinvoked a culture
*built a team which went hard for the title twice and reached a CL Final despite being homeless for a season.

It is beyond reasonable to say Poch deserved the chance to rebuild properly.

Conte has always won things with sides when there has been little distraction i.e. no cup
competitions. He ran out of patience (again, sympathy for him because he had a horrible time of it).

Liverpool trusting Klopp is the best example I can give. Awful season for them, they resisted sacking him for (say) a Nagelsmann, and here they are?

 

[scaramanga]

Liverpool trusting Klopp is the best example I can give.

Are you saying Poch had the team on PEDs?

 

[thfcsteff]

Are you saying Poch had the team on PEDs?

I edited that for clarity hahaha!

 

[MKSpur]

Someone's had too many lemons

To be fair they certainly (over)saw a big influx of lemons when they were here together

 

[Raziel]

Personally, the thing I was most excited about when we got Conte was that it appeared we had a top manager who at the first sign of not getting what he wanted would either walk or blow the boardroom up via a press conference.

The evidence suggests that either he -

a) got what he wanted or
b) decided to stay quiet despite being unhappy

I'd be happier if it was the former. The whole undoing then makes more sense.

If the latter, I have to say it is a remarkable state of affairs that he allowed himself to get 'Levy'd' in such a way, and it leaves me thinking much less of him.

I said when Ventrone passed that we were seeing a deeply troubled man as Ventrone was his 'consigliari' of sorts, and I remain convinced it was a deep part of why his management got increasingly poor.

He got mostly what he asked for

Typical Spurs luck that his personal life fell apart at the wrong moment and he lost his belief/mojo/whatever (big part of his success)

In hindsight he probably was still a bad fit just because of the style

 

[Glenda's Legs]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653036352026431494

https://twitter.com/x/status/1653049031818444801

Throw enough darts and one might hit the target, I suppose.


(As long as it's not me throwing them).

 

[Yiddo]

Why would we even consider the Mainz manager? They don’t even play the “Tottenham way”.

 

[Grays_1890]

If we were that bad, how were we in 4th place in contention for a top four place before he left? It is genuinely a mystery to me but it's a fact.

Agree, things were going ok, so why did the manager decide to self implode on national TV after the Southampton game? Its truly a mystery

 

[Mr Gogolak]

Agree, things were going ok, so why did the manager decide to self implode on national TV after the Southampton game? Its truly a mystery

Things went downhill fast after the World Cup and Ventrone's death. I think, too often, we're guilty of assuming there's only one cause to any given situation. In my experience, it's generally a myriad of little things that build up to create a crisis. In this case, Conte was going through a difficult time on a personal level. He probably lost his passion or whatever it was that made him tick as a manager. Maybe his relationship with the players wasn't what he wanted or what he was used to. For instance, managers in Italy command a lot of respect from their players. Maybe he wasn't getting that here.

A year after coming in, it was obvious that the players weren't any closer to adapting to his system. He has a reputation for being a perfectionist and it's quite likely that this didn't sit well with him either. His Inter team was full of dedicated players and maybe he felt he wasn't getting that here.

What's for certain is that he did get the best of the squad he had (built) and neither Stellini nor Mason has been able to keep us in the race for 4th. My guess is that Conte was as frustrated as the next guy with the lack of progress and at some point, that frustration got the better of him. You never know the people you see on TV but my guess is that he's not the kind of guy to sabotage something on purpose. He looks too hot-headed and passionate for that. He just failed to implement his system with this particular group of players - something that probably never happened to him before - grew frustrated and hit the self-destruct button.

I'm not sure there's more to it than that.

 

[parklane1]

Things went downhill fast after the World Cup and Ventrone's death. I think, too often, we're guilty of assuming there's only one cause to any given situation. In my experience, it's generally a myriad of little things that build up to create a crisis. In this case, Conte was going through a difficult time on a personal level. He probably lost his passion or whatever it was that made him tick as a manager. Maybe his relationship with the players wasn't what he wanted or what he was used to. For instance, managers in Italy command a lot of respect from their players. Maybe he wasn't getting that here.

A year after coming in, it was obvious that the players weren't any closer to adapting to his system. He has a reputation for being a perfectionist and it's quite likely that this didn't sit well with him either. His Inter team was full of dedicated players and maybe he felt he wasn't getting that here.

What's for certain is that he did get the best of the squad he had (built) and neither Stellini nor Mason has been able to keep us in the race for 4th. My guess is that Conte was as frustrated as the next guy with the lack of progress and at some point, that frustration got the better of him. You never know the people you see on TV but my guess is that he's not the kind of guy to sabotage something on purpose. He looks too hot-headed and passionate for that. He just failed to implement his system with this particular group of players - something that probably never happened to him before - grew frustrated and hit the self-destruct button.

I'm not sure there's more to it than that.

Good balanced post and i would agree. I also posted on here a while back that the situation that Conte had to live with before his exit would/could not have helped him. The death of three people near to him, emergency surgery which is never easy to handle. I am pretty sure most of us ( if not all of us) would have suffered mentality having to deal with those things. To me its no wonder that he hit the self-destuct button.

 

[Robspur12]

What's for certain is that he did get the best of the squad he had (built)

I don't think that's certain at all. But how does one make the counterfactual argument? Let's see how Mason finishes the season. Just because Conte left us in 4th that doesn't mean that was where we would have definitely finished given we had 3 tough away games at grounds we don't usually do well at.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't think that's certain at all. But how does one make the counterfactual argument? Let's see how Mason finishes the season. Just because Conte left us in 4th that doesn't mean that was where we would have definitely finished given we had 3 tough away games at grounds we don't usually do well at.

Games in hand would have affected the league position

 

[Gutter Boy]

So the two EPL managers of the season - Julen Lopetegui (taken a poor Wolves squad from bottom to mid-table) and Gary O'Neil (take a poor Bournemouth squad from bottom to mid-table). Emery is probably in there with a shout for manager of the season too. Should we be considering either of them?

We offered Lopetegui the job two years ago, so he's obviously on the radar.

 

[Bishop]

I think if something has been reported on it's not really fair to be going in on people believing it the way you have in this post tbqh

It's entirely plausible given all the other known circumstances that Conte wouldn't return, he had already spent lengthy spells of the season in Italy, flew out straight after throwing his grenade post Southampton game and his staff didn't leave with him which id say is normally customary when a manager with his own coaching team is sacked - id say choosing not to believe what has been reported with the whole picture in mind is more likely to be because it doesn't suit the narrative personally.

The thing is many things get reported but as is the way, people pick and choose which reports they take as gospel and which ones they don't. That is the argument @spurspinter1 is making and one that is very valid across the general wider football discourse.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

 

[billyiddo]

The thing is many things get reported but as is the way, people pick and choose which reports they take as gospel and which ones they don't. That is the argument @spurspinter1 is making and one that is very valid across the general wider football discourse.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

People are more likely to believe a story if it suits their position, i don't disagree with that however i just felt the post i responded to was going in a bit hard afaic - at the end of the day a story reported by a journalist known to have inside info from Spurs is a little more credible than something run from random The Sun journalist, to just dismiss it as a myth is no better than what he's taking aim at - the evidence itself is the story, you either choose to believe it or ignore it based on your bias i guess.

 

[spurspinter1]

Agree, things were going ok, so why did the manager decide to self implode on national TV after the Southampton game? Its truly a mystery

You and others might consider it a decision to implode like that but the guy runs on passion and having incredibly high standards. Working with our lot is a pressure cooker situation for that type of character. It wasn't about being manipulative or shrewd he was just livid at what was happening.

The players and board couldn't handle the truth and use it wisely, instead they've retreated in to their shell like gonads in an ice bath. I just don't buy the rumours following the fallout and the flimflam about him backing down on his stance to Levy, but if you (not you specifically) are outraged and hate the guy it makes sense that you'd believe all of it.

There's an interesting discussion about why it is supposedly unacceptable to tell the truth in a press conference which I'm happy to have but I fear I'm going round in circles in terms of Conte talk and I'm not trying to wind people up or get wound up myself. What's happened has happened and we need a totally new approach.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Kane called it explicitly on Friday. He said we'd had 3.5 years of declining values, standards and expectations. It's a full rot, not just a short-term tiff