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New Kit?
- Thread starter THFC6061
- Start date
IowaSpur
David Kerslake
In America, especially in professional sports (and REALLY in football and basketball), logos and uniforms are "sacred" so to speak. There are a couple professional franchises that are adopting the use as many bright colors and combinations as possible but only a handful (Seattle Seahawks,and Jacksonville Jaguars are really the only two NFL teams and the Charlotte Bobcats (now the Hornets again so that will stop and maybe the New Orleans Pelicans (formerly the Hornets...long story if you don't know it) in the NBA). You'll notice that very few NFL logos have actually changed the last 75 years. There have been some "modernizing" of some and cleaning some lines up but not a lot of complete re-branding. Teams that do re brand and change logos/color schemes go through years of public input and research.
There are infinite ways for American sports franchises to make more money than they know what to do with rather than changing logos, colors, and sponsors every year and forcing people to buy new uniforms. They know American's won't buy them new every year - a new football jersey costs roughly $175 (or roughly £105). American's see that for what it is and won't do it. There are many, like me, who have worn the same shirt/jersey to games (on game days) for years with no intention of changing it.
The NFL has experimented with putting sponsor logos on practice jerseys and there was rather large backlash to that. It was/is a 3x5 logo on the left shoulder and there is backlash over over commercializing the teams. There was brief...very very brief...discussions about doing that on game jerseys and that was met with 100% negative...extremely negative...reviews and was squashed within 2 days of it being floated.
The NBA has floated the idea of going the route of sponsorships on jerseys and that was met with the same anger as the football uniforms. You'll notice that about 75% of the league is wearing the same jersey style that they were in the 70s. They've all run "alternates" out occasionally but those have been hated with a passion 98% of the time.
The WNBA does it. They didn't at first but were running bankrupt. They then went full soccer kit with it and found that it recieved negative feedback from those that actually watch the WNBA (about .005% of Americans) and went to something like this...It works int he WNBA but you'll NEVER see the NBA wear it
We don't want logos on our jerseys. Now, we have no problem going to see our team play on *Field Sponsor*nat *Stadium Sponsor* Stadium where the concourses, bathroom walls, beer cups, food wrappers, game program, scoreboards, etc... are littered with sponsorships with each time out being sponsored by some corporate sponsorship and almost each action (depending on the sport) being sponsored by someone. Keep it off of our uniforms, t-shirts, and hats and we're fine. There is a growing number of fans getting sick of EVERYTHING being sponsored but when given a choice of that or sponsors on the uniforms they quickly quiet down.
As for the teams up and moving and being fairweather fans. That has nothing to do with the fans - except in the case of the potential Jacksonville Jaguars move. That was a mistake from that start - why the NFL put a third NFL team in a state that is notirous for not supporting their professional sports (I'll grant you Florida doesn't support their teams) where the teams that were already there had been there for decades and expect to carve a fan base out of it I'll never understand.
Almost every single time a team has moved it has been because the owner had issues with money. There is a lot of talk of "I'll move the team" but it's always to drum up money for a new stadium/arena and rarely ever happens in all reality. You name me a team that moved in the last 30 years and I'll show you an owner that got in a dispute with the city over money. It used to happen a lot more in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s before professional sports are what they are today. That was when professional athletes were still working jobs during the off season because sports were just a "professional hobby".
It has nothing to do with fair-weather fans. Many times the fans are left wondering "What the f***" and are ****ed about it. When the Cleveland Browns were moved to Baltimore in 1996 by the owner Cleveland fans were absolutely livid and still went to the stadium every Sunday to tailgate before getting a team back. When that owner died a year, or so ago, they celebrated (he was one of the most influential owners NFL history and is why the NFL is what it is today). NBA or MLB fans of newer, transplanted, teams may be fair-weather but NFL fans are anything but. There is a reason the average NFL team is worth about 1.3 billion dollars while almost all being less than 60 years old. As proof of the worth of the NFL they settled a concussion lawsuit last fall for $765 million and it is considered pocket change for the league. One expert I read said it was like losing about $50 to the average American (or £30 to the average Brit).
Part of the fair-weather that some Americans may have comes from the number of different leagues we have (pardon my ignorance of professional leagues in England). There is the NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLS...couple that with countless "lower level" football, basketball, and hockey leagues. Couple that with the fact that there are 336 universities in America that play Division 1 (the highest level) basketball and 246 universities that play Division 1 football. There are professional sports on television 361ish nights per year.
There are over 1,000 colleges and universities that play basketball and football in America
I can tell you I am as dedicated to the teams that I follow as the vast majority of you are to Tottenham - the problem is trying to split that dedication between 3 college football teams, an NFL team, a NBA team, a NHL team, and a MLS team and 3 college basketball teams takes quite a lot. To go on top of that I watch darts, rugby, cricket, anything any time it's on TV. The reality is most Americans are "burnt out" on sports.
With all that said NFL teams averaged something like 65K per game this season (Every team) with the majority likely able to sell out stadiums of 80-90k if they were built that big. There are about 10 university teams in America that average over 100k per home game. My favorite of them, the University of Michigan, averages about 114k people per game. With the access that 80inch HD TVs, massaging recliners, surround sound, etc... has given people at home to watch a game with a much better view of the game, at a much lower price, than being at the game.
Being honest - wouldn't you love to have a jersey that doesn't have the logo as a small patch, almost afterthought like, hidden on the shoulder with some big corporate sponsor taking up 2/3 of the front? To have Tottenham or Spurs across the chest so it feels like the player is representing the club and not AIA, HP, Fly Emirates, etc..?
Sorry, from now on I'll try to only contribute in regards to Tottenham kits unless this subject continues.
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/xOEMj6RBYrg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Rumoured leak of away kit
Rumoured leak of away kit
chicken_badge
Gudni Bergsson
Now THAT I would reckon is more likely to be genuine!
I remember the OS glitching like that before. The whole shirt zoom thing.... that's a lot of trouble for someone to go to for a fake kit.
Similar to the France home.
EDIT Just mucked around with the web address for the current away and typed in this
http://shop.tottenhamhotspur.com/product/tottenham-hotspur-mens-away-shirt-14/15/mass14
and it brought up an outline page for a "S/S SHIRT 2014/15"
The last part of the code you can change and it brings up various outline pages
MHSS14 = mens home
MASS14 = mens aways
MTSS14 = mens third
MHGK14 = mens keeper home
So they do have this stuff ready to go I think.
I remember the OS glitching like that before. The whole shirt zoom thing.... that's a lot of trouble for someone to go to for a fake kit.
Similar to the France home.
EDIT Just mucked around with the web address for the current away and typed in this
http://shop.tottenhamhotspur.com/product/tottenham-hotspur-mens-away-shirt-14/15/mass14
and it brought up an outline page for a "S/S SHIRT 2014/15"
The last part of the code you can change and it brings up various outline pages
MHSS14 = mens home
MASS14 = mens aways
MTSS14 = mens third
MHGK14 = mens keeper home
So they do have this stuff ready to go I think.
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Sandman
Jermaine Jenas
LOL thats is exactly what i thought. Its the template they used for last seasons Nike Shirts. So not very original. Although saying that I still like the White version.
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
I think you're right. And a bit too close to Chelsea blue for me. In fact nothing much sexy about that shirt at all. (i hate those big contrasting cuffs)
Plus whats with having your work shirt on underneath?
......(is that a 'come straight from the office' look)
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I think you're right. And a bit too close to Chelsea blue for me. In fact nothing much sexy about that shirt at all. (i hate those big contrasting cuffs)
Plus whats with having your work shirt on underneath?
LOL, that's what it looks like to me now. A short sleeve white shirt, with a plain blue spurs tee on top. The shirt arms are folded up on top of the spurs top.
yidmickaaaaa
Kazuyuki Toda
Looks like they have taken the images down... Was the home/3rd kit as were rumored on here earlier?
Superted
Jonathan Woodgate
Don't apologise. That was a great read.
You'd obviously know more than me, but I would have thought MLB was the biggest traditionalist when it came to sporting guernseys. The Yankees unifom for example looks almost exactly what you see Babe Ruth wearing in old timey pictures (except you assume improvements in materials etc)
NFL would be next, but NBA & NHL from what I can tell have all had teams with team logo changes as well as uniform changes (although not too dramatic).
Rossi22
Pedro Mendes
Thanks for that, very informative. Fairweather was probably the wrong expression, it's just my view of things that generally Americans are much more relaxed and friendly when it comes to their sports - for example fans of opposing sides sitting together, there would be all out carnage if that was allowed in football(soccer) across Europe or South America, fans are strictly segregated at the ground. You make a good point about a fan's interest being split across multiple teams(from different sports) though, over here it's just football, football, football ... rugby is fairly popular but it's more or less a footnote compared to football. Are the fans at college games split? I'm actually really into American sports and I actually enjoy watching college football/basketball more than the pros, I think it's the atmosphere that accompanies them that makes it better viewing(for me anyway) and it just feels more personal. I hate the trophy presentation for the Super Bowl/Stanley Cup etc where the owners and executives muscle their way into it and make it all about them and we get the boring generic spiel about what a great organisation it is and so on, that moment should just be all about the coaches and the players.
As for the shirts, I guess it's just a cultural thing, throughout history teams have always had a small badge across the heart. I think if you go back to the beginning of football they'd have just been playing in plan shirts(in their respective colours), then they added the club badge, then much later they added the kit makers logo to the opposite side of the badge and then a little later a sponsor below centrally. There will be a lot of purists who just want the kit with the badge and nothing else but it's a generational thing, I'm only young so all I've ever known is sponsors on kits, personally as long as they tie in with the kit and aren't something stupid like McDonalds I'm fine with it, older fans will most likely disagree, national teams are completely sponsor free though. By the way, at what point did you decide on Spurs are your team? I'd be very impressed if it was last season, despite statistically being one of our better seasons it was just a horror show from start to finish and really unlike the previous few years, hopefully we put that behind us and get back on track now.
IowaSpur
David Kerslake
MLB sees very little change as well but there are only a few clubs that are extremely uptight about their uniforms not changing - Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, Red Sox, Reds (to a lesser extent), and maybe one or two others. Basically it's the clubs that have been around since the 1800's (or shortly there after). The rest of the clubs try to not change too much but do some updates every now and then. Though, now that I think about it you may be right. There was a fad about 10-15 years ago where players started wearing extremely baggy uniforms and that did not go over well with fans. The same happened in the NBA actually. It seemed to fit with the "urban/rap" culture at that time where baggy was where it was at. It's now flipped to a hipster/skinny jean look.
When it comes to American uniforms and how seriously they are taking I present you (you may already know them)
http://www.uni-watch.com/
https://twitter.com/UniWatch
http://www.sportslogos.net/
https://twitter.com/sportslogosnet
There are sites (like the ones above) that track each uniform combination worn and their records in each uniform, team colors with the best and worst win %, etc...
The NBA and NHL teams that have undergone "significant" changes to logos and colors are teams that are struggling on the court and in fan support because of it. They change colors/logos to try to draw interest back in to the team. The Charlotte Bobcats and Orlando Magic are prime examples of that. Occasionally in the NBA you see a team change logos/schemes to usher in a new era. See the change the Cleveland Cavilers went through when they drafted LeBron James, Houston Rockets when they drafted Yao Ming, Minnesota Timberwolves with the drafting of Kevin Garnett, or the San Antonio Spurs after moving into a new arena (uni didn't change but the logo dropped all the colors except black and grey). Then there are teams that tried to go cutting edge modern in the late 90s/early 00s found reaction wasn't real good and are starting to go to more traditional looks - Utah Jazz, Atlanta Hawks, Golden State Warriors, Philadelphia 76ers (who changed for Allen Iverson but back after he retired), and Detroit who went EXTREME on their change in 1995 but quickly changed their colors back 5 years later and 5 years after that were back to their "original" logo.
At this point in America you see a lot of "alternate" logos come and go (along with uniforms) than primary logos. I think teams are learning completely rebranding the team is just too risky.
The NHL is very niche in America so there are a lot more franchises moving and changing to try to find a place that welcomes them and is excited about them. The NHL really needs to implement a rule that no team is allowed to play in a state that doesn't see snow/ice over at least 80% of it state every winter. Teams in Florida, Arizona, Texas, California (though they do and draw well) Georgia, etc... don't draw well because other than in their soft drinks the only team those people see ice is during a hockey game.
The sites I listed above will show this time line for almost every team that has changed logos (especially in the NBA)
starting in 1994 and 1995 there was a strong push to get to sharp edged logos with a brand new (bright) color scheme almost leaving the past behind.
Turns out that didn't go over as well the teams had hoped
About 2000 to 2001 you see teams start to change colors back but leave the logo the same
Turns out that was better but still not great
Starting about roughly 2005 teams started slowly trickling back to old/traditional logos from the 70s and 80s
Teams that did that did that saw great results in merchandising and ticket sales
Starting about 2011 the rest of the teams started to catch on and do the same thing...if only bringing those back as alternates and doing a lot of "throw back" nights (this is where the changing uniforms to drive sales comes in).
I'm much more of a purist when it comes to uniforms. My college team has worn the exact same uniform since the 1930s...well the 1880s when they started and then when the helmet was added in the 30s it changed but not since then. They've done some "special" ones since then but I've hated all of them. Most of the big name college programs in America have worn the same uniforms for 50-100 years with no intention on changing them and any time a one off is floated it's quickly killed because the outrage is strong.
IowaSpur
David Kerslake
There are plenty of rivalries with bad blood where vandalism, assaults, death threats, etc... occur. There are a ton of death threats towards players lobbied through twitter, facebook, at the game, etc... Is it to the level that riots occur, like Europe and Central/South America? Not frequently. We take our sports very seriously and fights happen at almost every game, however, 99% of fans realize it's nothing other than a game and can enjoy each others company with general good natured ribbings and don't go much further than verbal when it does get serious. Schools/teams go out of their way with security to make sure it doesn't get too bad. That kind of black eye, even if it was only 2 fans that did something stupid, will stick with the entire program (and university actually) for years. That kind of bad press isn't wanted so they just don't allow it.
College games fans aren't split. I can't think of anywhere that fans are split. There are "visitor sections" but it's not segregated from the rest of the stadium and some very small schools (at the D2/D3/NAIA levels and almost every high school) may have a home side and visitor side but that's not due to violence. That's due to logistics and visitors not needing as much space so the away side is smaller.
I agree that the atmosphere at college games is 10000000 times that of a professional atmosphere. Pro sports are very corporate and sterile. College atmospheres, for all sports, are a party. Tailgates start days before at many places, the players look like they have more fun, more emotion is allowed by the refs, the crowds are more into the game, the stadiums are set up with the seats much closer to the field, etc... You'll find very few American's who don't prefer the atmosphere of college athletics to professional but a good number who prefer the game of the professionals more.
This kind of goes back to the original point of American sports seeing so corporate and being shocked there are no logos on the uniforms. Pro sports are very corporate and the trophy presentations (great mention) are proof of that. As American I don't think twice about it because that's what I'm used to - just as you with giant logos on your shirts. We notice it but realize it's part of it.
I'd love to see a shirt that is plain white with navy letters on front and back, name on back, Tottenham logo on the shoulder and Spurs (or something) across the chest with a sponsor under the numbers (like the WNBA jersey) or on the other shoulder. Add some yellow for accents around the neck/sleeve and call it good. Inverse the colors for the navy kit. Though I did like the one picture posted with the triple yellow stripes on the front mid-line.
IowaSpur
David Kerslake
Okay...my Americanized view of what I'd like to see the dark kits look like
White (The Adidas builder wouldn't let me use a navy for font color so I went with the darkest I could...would let me pick a white base either but you get the idea)
Yellow(The Adidas builder wouldn't let me use a navy for font color so I went with the darkest I could)
The yellows I wasn't sure what the proper yellow was so I went as close as I could to pictures I could find.
For a true alternate color I'm a big fan of greys and blacks.
Yes, that is an Adidas base but UA doesn't have the builder like Adidas does, that I could find. Put an UA logo where the Adidas logo is and take a small piping of yellow around the neck or sleeve and the rest of it is the same.
It seems strange to me to have the number over the name, but I couldn't flip them. However, there's more than enough room for a sponsor logo under that yet.
White (The Adidas builder wouldn't let me use a navy for font color so I went with the darkest I could...would let me pick a white base either but you get the idea)
Yellow(The Adidas builder wouldn't let me use a navy for font color so I went with the darkest I could)
The yellows I wasn't sure what the proper yellow was so I went as close as I could to pictures I could find.
For a true alternate color I'm a big fan of greys and blacks.
Yes, that is an Adidas base but UA doesn't have the builder like Adidas does, that I could find. Put an UA logo where the Adidas logo is and take a small piping of yellow around the neck or sleeve and the rest of it is the same.
It seems strange to me to have the number over the name, but I couldn't flip them. However, there's more than enough room for a sponsor logo under that yet.
IowaSpur
David Kerslake
The numbers I was iffy on. I'm so used to them with American sports I put them on there. They are a take or leave for me.
Cochise
Steve Carr
I find this strange as over here, the re naming of a stadium feels almost sacrilegious. Something about the name of the ground just feels so rooted in the clubs history. I hated it when St James' Park was renamed and I'll be even more gutted when WHL is ditched to make way for a sponsors name.