Nacer Chadli

[Coys300]

Poch is (or thinks he is) good at nurturing and developing players (young and old) , so unless he can get someone that is starter material don't be surprised if the 'weak ' bench we've been seeing is actually what Poch wants, as he sees and works with these players and most importantly trusts them.

Why then does he only bring the likes of Carroll, Winks and Onomah on at the very end of matches? It's not like the starting 11 has been doing that great thus far that there was no need to make some substitutions...

 

[Grays_1890]

Chadli for 13m lovely business

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Why then does he only bring the likes of Carroll, Winks and Onomah on at the very end of matches? It's not like the starting 11 has been doing that great thus far that there was no need to make some substitutions...

If you are talking about this season, we're only 3 games in. I think Poch is pragmatic enough to give the players who took us to 3rd last season a fair crack. That said Alli didn't start v Palace and Kane got hooked Saturday.

Perhaps Poch is having difficulty finding out where everyone is at after a Summer (2 summers in Kanes case) of tournament football.

We are looking a bit flat, and if that continues Poch will make changes and just as last season if you perform , you move up the list and you stay in the team.

But never be surprised by Poch' s selections. Before last season we all saw no reason why mason/bentelab wouldn't be our midfield two and Dembele was perhaps becoming surplus to our requirements.

He likes the youth players, they're engrained in the club and will be keen as f!ck to learn the ways of the Poch. (and he will give them chances imo)

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Just to get back on thread....

Thank you Chadli.

You are a nice player.....And that is part of your problem.

You will never use your physique, it is not in your nature. If you did you could go up a couple of levels.

I Don't think west Brom is a great club for you, BUT I wish you the best, you provided some lovely goals and lovely moments. Ciao my dolphin.

 

[Coys300]

If you are talking about this season, we're only 3 games in. I think Poch is pragmatic enough to give the players who took us to 3rd last season a fair crack. That said Alli didn't start v Palace and Kane got hooked Saturday.

Perhaps Poch is having difficulty finding out where everyone is at after a Summer (2 summers in Kanes case) of tournament football.

We are looking a bit flat, and if that continues Poch will make changes and just as last season if you perform , you move up the list and you stay in the team.

But never be surprised by Poch' s selections. Before last season we all saw no reason why mason/bentelab wouldn't be our midfield two and Dembele was perhaps becoming surplus to our requirements.

He likes the youth players, they're engrained in the club and will be keen as f!ck to learn the ways of the Poch. (and he will give them chances imo)

I'm not so much talking about the starting 11 though. Surely if during a match it becomes clear that someone is not performing you sub him. No way would Eriksen have lasted as long as he did against Liverpool if Pochettino had better options on the bench imo. I'm fine with him giving youth a chance, but he's hardly doing that either, 5 minutes for Onomah, 1 minute for Winks... I don't really think he considers them to be good enough at this point, if he did surely they would get on the pitch sooner? We really need 1 or 2 attacking reinforcements imo.

 

[Grays_1890]

The bloke got goals, what was it 25 in three seasons? Not too bad really

Problem is him getting goals was very much like Sigi for me, it masked over the fact you never got anymore out of them in a game, no structure to their play, never sure where to play them

 

[Coys300]

The bloke got goals, what was it 25 in three seasons? Not too bad really

Problem is him getting goals was very much like Sigi for me, it masked over the fact you never got anymore out of them in a game, no structure to their play, never sure where to play them

Dempsey was probably the best example of that. Got you goals, but not much else. As a striker that's actually fine, look at Defoe, but as a number 10 or winger you want them to contribute more to the overall play.

 

[Grays_1890]

Dempsey was probably the best example of that. Got you goals, but not much else. As a striker that's actually fine, look at Defoe, but as a number 10 or winger you want them to contribute more to the overall play.

Yeh agreed, he was a classic at that. All great if they are scoring goals and usually do so off the bench, but you find it hard to place them in your side where they can do that but not mess your plans defensively.

 

[DubaiSpur]

But you're implying a too stronger correlation between quality and price. Leicester at some point splashed what? on Kante and Mahrez to go 'up the levels' and even 2 of our best talents (Dier and alli) only cost a mere £5m each.

Poch is (or thinks he is) good at nurturing and developing players (young and old) , so unless he can get someone that is starter material don't be surprised if the 'weak ' bench we've been seeing is actually what Poch wants, as he sees and works with these players and most importantly trusts them.

Firstly, there is a correlation between quality and price. The market operates on the principle, for one. You can do as we do and try to find undervalued players to beat that relationship, but it still exists. Generally, you get what you pay for -i n probabilistic terms, on average, a more expensive player is probably a more talented player.

As for Poch 'nurturing and developing' players ,it's true, but once again, it's probably a logical fallacy to assume that the weak bench we have is something Poch is happy about, or wants in any way. As mentioned earlier, he never 'worked with' Wijnaldum, but he evidently wanted him, and we cheaped out on that deal. He's directly mentioned that he'd like a pacy, direct player in Zaha's mould when asked about whether he wanted Zaha or not, and we haven't gotten anywhere with that. He's made it clear that he ideally wants 'three or four' new signings beyond Wanyama and Janssen, and we haven't even made progress towards that end except kidnapping N'Koudou and making him labor on our training field sans contract while other clubs can prise who they wish away from Marseille without the farce of embarking on a two-month Labor of Hercules over a player who costs 11m euros.

I do not believe that Poch is masochistic enough to enjoy the thought of being 1-0 down in a prestigious CL tie with the possibility of advancement (or in a crucial PL game) and having only Onomah, Winks, Cy Goddard and Zenon Stylianides (as examples) to call on as potential game-changers while our opponents bring on full pros or experienced players. He has never shown that he rates success that lowly, and he has his own career to think about as well - him winning things and raising his profile would do wonders for his chances of landing a gig like Barca or Madrid, while him contentedly coaching a team of 17-year-olds from the academy to mediocrity (or worse, failure) while making large profits every window wouldn't quite achieve the same visibility.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Firstly, there is a correlation between quality and price. The market operates on the principle, for one. You can do as we do and try to find undervalued players to beat that relationship, but it still exists. Generally, you get what you pay for -i n probabilistic terms, on average, a more expensive player is probably a more talented player.

Never said there wasn't......there is correlation and 'too stronger' correlation. And IMO in the last 5 years there has been a deterioration in the more equals better equation particuarly in the £10-£30m bracket. When you are above that (and lets face it we're probably rarely at that level) then i would say you're more likely to get what you pay for.

I do not believe that Poch is masochistic enough to enjoy the thought of being 1-0 down in a prestigious CL tie with the possibility of advancement (or in a crucial PL game) and having only Onomah, Winks, Cy Goddard and Zenon Stylianides (as examples) to call on as potential game-changers while our opponents bring on full pros or experienced players. He has never shown that he rates success that lowly, and he has his own career to think about as well - him winning things and raising his profile would do wonders for his chances of landing a gig like Barca or Madrid, while him contentedly coaching a team of 17-year-olds from the academy to mediocrity (or worse, failure) while making large profits every window wouldn't quite achieve the same visibility.

Just maybe he quite likes it this way, Wenger certainly did and has ironically come under more pressure (with little success) since the get your cheque book out goon army have been on his case. He 'developed' some brilliant players at Arsenal.

Poch has time on his side. Remember some top coaches have the accusation thrown at them that they can only do-it with ready made teams backed with truck loads of money. Poch may just be padding out his CV.

You know, like 'able to work with awkward chairmen' etc

 

[DubaiSpur]

Never said there wasn't......there is correlation and 'too stronger' correlation. And IMO in the last 5 years there has been a deterioration in the more equals better equation particuarly in the £10-£30m bracket. When you are above that (and lets face it we're probably rarely at that level) then i would say you're more likely to get what you pay for.

Well, barring a scientific study to examine the relationship, the 'strength' will remain a matter of conjecture, sadly. However, I do tend to agree that this sort of effect is now stronger at the 30m-and-up level than it is at the level we've (arbitrarily) restricted ourselves to shopping at. However, it's still valid enough for me to consider a more expensive player a sounder buy on average, even with our history - to use a (horrible) arbitrary example based on a tiny sample, the Magnificent Seven consisted of 2 signings above 20 million and 5 signings below 20 million - 1 in 2 players (50%) succeeded at the 20 million+ level, and 2 of 5 players (40%), Eriksen and Chadli, succeeded at the under-20-million level. And Chadli's marginal.

Just maybe he quite likes it this way, Wenger certainly did and has ironically come under more pressure (with little success) since the get your cheque book out goon army have been on his case. He 'developed' some brilliant players at Arsenal.

Poch has time on his side. Remember some top coaches have the accusation thrown at them that they can only do-it with ready made teams backed with truck loads of money. Poch may just be padding out his CV.

You know, like 'able to work with awkward chairmen' etc

It's possible, but it's unlikely. He walked at Soton when Cortese left, and was responsible for breaking their transfer record twice in the same window (with Wanyama and Osvaldo). The 'do well with youth players' thing seems like it was always only a *part* of what makes him attractive to clubs, with the rest of it being the iron-willed squad spirit he brings, the attractive football he espouses and his record of relative (although not astounding) overachievement. Both the attractive football and the overachievement would be made easier with good players, who often cost a lot (Lovren, Wanyama, Osvaldo at Soton, for example). And whether you think Poch likes doing things the easy or (somewhat needlessly) the hard way depends on whether you think he's a masochist or not. Levy would much prefer the latter, of course.

 

[parklane1]

Every signing ( no matter what the fee is) is a risk, there have been plenty of big money flops just like there have been many great deals at low prices.