• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Moussa Sissoko

I am not going to get into a BOL style debate with you.
It would help if posters who were criticising him when he is playing well, didn't finish every post with " I hope we will upgrade him next season," or the "team cannot reach great heights with him in it" especially after we have just beaten the Bundesliga leaders or after he played well in a team that drew with Madrid last season. Everyone had bad touches yesterday but we don't let on to upgade them. I am sure Poch is looking to upgrade some positions and players. However, I doubt very much he is looking to upgrade Sissoko based on his performances this season.

Who finishes every post like that? Even that isnt true. And THATS the point.

The whole "lets just slam anyone who says anything negative" thing is totally out of control.

I thought he played well yesterday. Havent actually commented specifically because its entirely predictable. The usual suspects having a Sissoko circle jerk because he played well, someone makes a criticism (no matter how minor) and all hell breaks loose because ITS JUST SO UNFAIR!!!

I thought he played well.
I dont think he is good enough to be a long term starter in this team.
I would upgrade upon him in the summer.

NONE of this should cause the brickstorm it does.
 
Who finishes every post like that? Even that isnt true. And THATS the point.

The whole "lets just slam anyone who says anything negative" thing is totally out of control.

I thought he played well yesterday. Havent actually commented specifically because its entirely predictable. The usual suspects having a Sissoko circle jerk because he played well, someone makes a criticism (no matter how minor) and all hell breaks loose because ITS JUST SO UNFAIR!!!

I thought he played well.
I dont think he is good enough to be a long term starter in this team.
I would upgrade upon him in the summer.

NONE of this should cause the brickstorm it does.

Maybe read some of the critisism again before you continually tell me what is true and untrue. It makes me laugh to read posts like yours which make out that somehow the Sissoko critics are somehow wronged.
 
I dont think he is good enough to be a long term starter in this team.
I would upgrade upon him in the summer.

NONE of this should cause the brickstorm it does.

I think he is a HUGE part of the team now, the work he goes through, breaking up play and now what he adds in attack is hugely important, thats why the players love him because they know the work he goes through makes their jobs easier. Thats what makes up a team, different parts and for my money he has made himself a long term starter.
 
I think he is a HUGE part of the team now, the work he goes through, breaking up play and now what he adds in attack is hugely important, thats why the players love him because they know the work he goes through makes their jobs easier. Thats what makes up a team, different parts and for my money he has made himself a long term starter.

This for me as well, i doubt very much that he will be allowed to leave in the summer.
 
Maybe read some of the critisism again before you continually tell me what is true and untrue. It makes me laugh to read posts like yours which make out that somehow the Sissoko critics are somehow wronged.

Ok, Ill play along. These are the criticisms I can find over the last few pages:

It's not about comparative ability - most players in he world would fall short.
It's about style - Modric and Sissoko are at opposite ends of the scale.



Agreed, I was one of the original “haters” and I’m quite happy to admit that he surprises me every match how much he has improved over the course of this season.
I just don’t see the MOM, better than x,y,z player that some people do, in my eyes he is an athletic footballer just not a particularly skilful one.



I don't think anyone has claimed he hasn't improved - at least I haven't seen that in this thread. For me, the level of improvement is astonishing.
Problem is, he's come from such a low level that even such a huge improvement leaves him significantly behind the rest of the team in terms of talent. He's still at the very top of the list of players that need replacing and are easiest to replace in the summer, he's still at the bottom of our list of midfielders if everyone's fit (barring Skipp maybe on experience terms).


He still has his moments of looking like a pub player but I agree with this. And this time 6 months ago I was laughing at the fella thinking he was Ali Dia reincarnated. I love been this wrong about a player I'd written off.



For clarity and without prejudice, I think Sissoko has below average footballing skills and match awareness compared to his midfield peers in our current squad but I do think he has above average physical attributes that enable him to perform his current role. I also believe that his particular range of attributes and skills would be better showcased in a team that played to those strengths, maybe in a more counter attacking side rather than a team that like to patiently build up from the back.


On average, his performances must still rate as poor.
[All of them averaged together or the recent ones where, and brace yourself for this, he's been good (or not as disastrous)?]
All of them. He has a lot of ground to make up. Although he is getting there. I'd love to interview Sissoko - he is a bit of an enigma.


[fudging immense tonight. He sweeps up everywhere and just keeps us moving forward]
Then runs the length of the pitch and bricks the bed (meaning a pass that went straight to their defender).


[What would make you NOT come up with a critique of Sissoko?]
Him discovering some kind of vision, skill and understanding of the game that ends with him being a midfielder that doesn't look out of place in a team challenging for the title.


I thought Serge and Sissoko had very mixed games. A few good interventions/actions, but also some hopeless interplay where they went nowhere or just left the ball or passed to nobody. And the usual poor quality of touch and technique and pass selection. Hopefully we can upgrade these guys, they are trying hard and they DO contribute in some ways, but cannot reach the heights I would like to see at Spurs.



So, a single mention of him being one we could upgrade upon next season.

Not one stating the team cannot reach great heights with him in the side.

Mostly, really, just observing that while he is a great athlete, he isnt a great footballer. Most, specifically, make that in relation to the quality of our side.

It might surprise you to hear I am in agreement with that, but thats not really the point. The point is, agree or disagree, these are not unreasonable points.

The defence of him?

As much as you won't like to admit it... [starts response with personal shot]


It was clearly a pass. There is no way that he meant anything other than putting Son in on goal. There’s no way he was just clearing into an area.
See how ridiculous it is to talk in absolutes here? Neither you or I can know Sissoko’s intentions with that ball. However the previous opinion that you (and Scara) have formed, religiously stuck to and now probably feel a little foolish in continuing to do, lead you into ridiculous statements like yours above.
[More personal shots]


Quite sad to see some fans not able or willing to appreciate what Sissoko brings to the team, but I don't know, maybe he fudged their wives or something to that effect which wouldn't endear me to him either. It's all about perspective though; Joseph was totally cool with GHod fudging his wife.
And to the point about "why can't you just let people disagree or have a different opinion?"...
If you want to think 2+2 = 5, sure, you can continue to believe that... but you're wrong. We're just trying to bring some enlightenment to the disillusioned.


Really didn't like the way he played. Runs around like his dingdong is too big and needs to take extra-long steps to compensate. Referee should've given him a red for tripping Sancho outside our box. Couldn't stand to watch him anymore so I turned off the TV before half-time.


Wow. You're a stubborn fudger aren't you



I agree, winning 3-0 against the Bundesliga leaders was a bit brick of a result.


Great post. Posters like scara would have us back to mid 90s Spurs where we were soft as brick.



Which leads me back to this little nugget:
Finally, if people are defending Sissoko more vehemently than other players, there's a very simple reason for that: people are offending Sissoko more vehemently than other players.

The scales are quite obviously tipping in the opposite direction.

Have I been wronged? If I were a sensitive soul Id suggest maybe I have. As have many who still reserve judgement on Sissoko as not being good enough.

Im not actually crying about it, Im really quite calm - more Im trying to point it out. Those virtuous self appointed defenders who take down the evil Sissoko slaggers at every chance are, actually, the ones being OTT and unreasonable.
 
He doesn't look out of place, he routinely looks like one of our better performing players, had more than once this season has looked like our best.

The problem is you are brushing off the stuff he is excellent at - his strength, his pace, his engine, his tactical awareness, his awareness of danger - as if it means nothing. Or as if it means less. If he was merely good at those things, he wouldn't be the player that he is. But he is excellent at them.

Most teams need both great technical players and some physical players to provide balance. Particularly a side like Poch's that requires great physical attributes to play as we do.

He is not in any way out of place, and adds vital attributes to our side. You don't like physical attributes, and that's fine, it's your personal preference. But they count. They aren't meaningless, they aren't lesser than the other ones. He is excellent at what he brings. You have the problem if you can't see it, or refuse to acknowledge it.
Pretty much all of the rest of our team have the physical and technical attributes required - nobody else gets by just being physical.

Kane is both strong and technically good. Eriksen and Alli both run like Duracell bunnies and are very hard to shake off the ball, along with their technical skill. Moura and Son are both fast and technically good. Dier is strong and technically good, as was Dembele. Our defence are all strong and technically good (possibly with the exception of Trippier depending on the day). Winks and Skipp I think we can allow to grow physically into their roles as they're both showing they can do the job without the need for strength.

Sissoko is a few steps below all of them technically (and Lloris too for that matter) yet is apparently good because he has some physical ability that other players are doing a better job without.
 
I think he is a HUGE part of the team now, the work he goes through, breaking up play and now what he adds in attack is hugely important, thats why the players love him because they know the work he goes through makes their jobs easier. Thats what makes up a team, different parts and for my money he has made himself a long term starter.

He does very good work breaking up play. Can be better positionally, but is improving and does a good job.

I think he adds hardly anything to our attack, to be quite honest. That seems a rather fanciful statement to me.

Given the squad we have right now, his stature within has grown massively. No Wanyama, Dembele, Dier and even Winks for spells (some rather extended) this season and he has been a mainstay because of it.

I do stuggle to believe, had we all those players fit and firing going into next season that Sissoko would still be starting regular games. They are all fundamentally better players, IMO, and Poch would make selections accordingly.

Given the state of the squad as it is now, I do fully expect us to be looking into buying a top class CM this summer. And if that player is good enough (he should be) he'll push Sissoko down the order IMO.

Regardless of how well he has done, I do believe he wont be a long term starter.

That said, where a while back Id have assumed us to sell him without hesitation at the first viable offer, Id now expect us to be happy to keep him in the squad.
 
I think he adds hardly anything to our attack, to be quite honest. That seems a rather fanciful statement to me.

Makes very good surging runs often taking a couple of players out the game has been a recently highlight, there was a hugely important run in a champions league game maybe it was when he made a run that set up a goal. His ability to carry the ball the yards he now does and the improvements in his distribution has made it an important part of his and our game.

Couple of examples from the weekend
 
Makes very good surging runs often taking a couple of players out the game has been a recently highlight, there was a hugely important run in a champions league game maybe it was when he made a run that set up a goal. His ability to carry the ball the yards he now does and the improvements in his distribution has made it an important part of his and our game.

For me the run is only really worth something if it amounts to something at the end, a through ball, a chance created a shot... and I really think the great majority of his amount to nothing of value.

In general play all they usually achieve is him then being out of position upfield and the other team having the ball. Or, a turn back, lay off, and the team is ultimately no more advanced than had he passed the ball forward.

There was a defence of his runs a while back to the effect of them relieving pressure when we are pinned back. And they are indeed valuable here, but that is also in a pretty specific (and infrequent) situation.
 
mods, can we get a tag for the thread thats going round and round so sane people can avoid it? theres always one thread going, stats, corners, sissoko.
 
Couple of examples from the weekend

1:19 - that run there. Gets the ball, Eriksen shows he wants the pass, Sissoko ends up running past him and getting a foul. For me the ball to Eriksen and our play flowing up the field would have been preferable.

Maybe you prefer the free kick?

And on the subject of runs - we've all noticed Winks making more. IMO - he makes better ones. In that his decisions on both when to run, and what to do when he has, are generally better than Sissokos.
 
Its fair to say prior to this season Sissoko has barely featured in the side, would you agree? Certainly not as a starter.

The logic you and BoL are trying follow would suggest then that we have been a tippy tappy soft as brick side until now.

When we all know that is not the case.

Because if you are honest with yourself you will admit that while Sissoko is indeed an incredible physical specimine, our whole team is made up of strong and combative players. Meaning he isnt the only one. Meaning its not a special talent only he brings to the table.

I think also, if you were really being honest, you would admit previous regulars like Dembele were not only strong and combative, but also intelligent and skillful. Certainly more so than Sissoko.

Which is, really, all people like Scara are getting at.

Controversial? Well it shouldnt be but just take a look at the thread...


I particularly liked this nugget from yesterday:
if people are defending Sissoko more vehemently than other players, there's a very simple reason for that: people are offending Sissoko more vehemently than other players


Its a given, a "fact", to most of you, that this is completely true.

Read back even just the last 5 pages, objectively, and youd find the opposite is actually the case.

People are defending Sissoko FAR more vehemently, and disproportionately, than anyone is "offending" him. Offending being - offering an opinion about his ability and suitability to our team.

They wont have it, so blinded they are by righteous indignation. Personal insults and slights fly from them, and I dont think they even notice.

I'm here to claim my nugget. I know the verbage was a bit unorthodox, but you're mistaking something here. We don't come into this thread to effuse praise on him just for the sake of it. Most of the "praise" you're referring to is people TRYING to bring facts into this "argument."

Facts like this:
Moussa Sissoko (aka The Bogeyman)
f6ea1fe85ae64e5944d9efb60af81740.png

"Its fair to say prior to this season Sissoko has barely featured in the side, would you agree?"
No.

Honestly, I'm surprised to see he has a goal for us. I definitely forgot about that one, but it was probably a goal-mouth scramble where he tripped over himself and slapped the ball in by accident with his ear.
Please don't preach about facts if you're not even willing to do a quick google search.

With that said, I don't have a problem agreeing with you or anyone on other topics. We're all supporting the same team after all... well, most of us are it seems.
 
For me the run is only really worth something if it amounts to something at the end, a through ball, a chance created a shot... and I really think the great majority of his amount to nothing of value.

I find that a really narrow view, if you break up the play, carry the ball say 20/30 years and it sets the play up for an attack its very worth it, like I said earlier its all the moving parts of something bigger as a team. I just randomly found this video now and you look at the one twos, the yards covered where he then gets the ball into advanced areads for players that are there to be the creative threat, often picked up in our own half.

The reason we are who we are and why Poch has so much success is down to the fact everyone has a role to play, Sissoko for me is a huge part of that jigsaw that makes up the makeup of the team and the success of what we do, he is certainly as a workhorse and defensive midfielder a reason we can weather the injuries we do.

 
Back