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Moussa Sissoko

I’m still to be impressed by Sissoko, to be honest. He works hard and I’m sure his heart’s in it, but he still looks like an average player at best. Yes, he’s improved, but it was from a very low starting point.

Hopefully the upward trajectory will continue, but for me he’s still a definite bench warmer when everyone is fit.
 
he is Argentinian so he is protective and creates a close group, so when Conte and Pep have a pop he has a pop back and I back that, he does not go out looking for issues and thats the difference and the "we are not a one man team" defense bodes well because 1 - its not true and 2 - it shows support of the team, against managers who moan about buying players and thus leaving their current squad saying "what about me".

As for the cup question Poch has said "We want to win the league and the champions league" for me I prefer him saying that with us than leaving us to make that dream work.

For me players don't stay for Carling Cup win, if we won the Carling Cup and did not puch in League or Champions League players would leave, he is spot on in my book.

You are missing the point.
The cups are not our primary goal, I agree. But doesn’t mean we can’t win one on the way, like City, Chelsea and the rest. He doesn’t need to say anything.For example. Everybody’s know Chelsea are not prioritising the Carabao cup as none of the top teams are! But Conte does not knock any competition.
 
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You are missing the point.
The cups are not our primary goal, I agree. But doesn’t mean we can’t win one on the way, like City, Chelsea and the rest. He doesn’t need to say anything.For example. Everybody’s know Chelsea are not prioritising the Carabao cup as none of the top teams are! But Conte does not knock any competition.

Ok well he never did that, he said I would like to win it but its not a priority in the 4 trophies we are in for, Champs League, League, FA Cup, League Cup in that order.

Just putting it into context of how it was said to be honest and I agree with him and additionally he put a team out to beat West Ham so the comments and results are not linked in my mind, we still had a team out good enough to beat West Ham.

I won't get OTT but I think we have a great chance of going Deep in the Champions League and sometimes as a club we do ourselves a disservice. I would take Semis in CL over Carabao Cup win.....
 
Ok well he never did that, he said I would like to win it but its not a priority in the 4 trophies we are in for, Champs League, League, FA Cup, League Cup in that order.

Just putting it into context of how it was said to be honest and I agree with him and additionally he put a team out to beat West Ham so the comments and results are not linked in my mind, we still had a team out good enough to beat West Ham.

I won't get OTT but I think we have a great chance of going Deep in the Champions League and sometimes as a club we do ourselves a disservice. I would take Semis in CL over Carabao Cup win.....

The team was more than capable of beating West Ham!
 
I have seen Dier pass the ball straight out of play or straight to the opposition on several occasions when under little pressure. I have also seen him take 2 touches to get the ball under control. Dier rarely ever runs with the ball (and even less so at pace) so you don't see the same sort of mis-control from Dier that you sometimes see from Sissoko. Of course Dier counters that with excellent reading of the game and the ability to intercept or win the ball from the opposition.

Unlike you with Sissoko, I have no agenda at all against Dier and I don't think he is a poor player, far from it. I think he plays a hugely important role in our squad, especially as he can fill in at centre half or as a holding midfielder. I consider Dier to be first choice cover for any of the three centre halves and also for Wanyama in midfield.

The point that I was trying to make using Dier as an example, is that not everybody in the team can have a touch like (say) Eriksen. That doesn't mean players with less ball control than Eriksen should never be part of a team. If you held a match between 10 outfield players like Eriksen and 10 outfield players like Sissoko - the latter team would win the match every time. You may disagree with that, but having been involved in youth coaching, it becomes apparent and that is why some academies (wrongly) end up with lots of physical, pacey players at the expense of weaker, technical players as the academy heads can feel like they are being judged on results as opposed to developing players for the first team several years in the future. Of course if you put out a team with 5 players of each type, they would have course beat either of the other options.

The other point that I was trying to make was that Dier was poor on Tuesday night, yet you ignore that poor performance and instead blame Sissoko. Doing that discredits the valid arguments that you do have about Sissoko IMO.

I know that for some reason you don't seem to hold coaching badges in very high esteem, but one of the things that is apparent when you go through that process is how much emphasis is put on players winning their duel against their opposing number. When I watch Sissoko I see a player who fails to win his dual very, very rarely. I think that is why he is a player that coaches/managers tend to pick. Of course you do then have to put up with moments where we lose possession rather needlessly due to his erratic touch, but you do so in the knowledge that the opposition are unlikely to score due to his opponent getting the better of him.

If Sissoko's performance level really matched up to your opinion Scara - do you think that Pochettino would still have him in team or even the match day squad? Is our manager so poorly educated about football that he cannot see how bad Sissoko is? Or is it perhaps that you, as a person who doesn't have that deep knowledge of football, simply cannot see the aspects of Sissoko's performances that leads managers to pick him?
I don't hold coaching badges in high esteem because football is littered with halfwits (which is being generous) who hold them. If they can hold those badges, then the level of applied knowledge is not nearly thorough enough.

What's the use in being good in individual battles if he whole team is passing and moving past/around their opponents? Who is Vertonghen's individual battle when he's 30 yards from goal? Who is Eriksen's individual battle when he passes through 3 or 4 players?

The team of Sissokos would spend the whole match chasing shadows because they wouldn't get near the ball. If they did get the ball, within 3 or 4 passes they'd have given it back and would be back to chasing shadows. I know Barca aren't entirely lacking in physical ability, but do you think Stoke would give them much of a game?

I'm afraid that there's still too much of the "But can they do it on a windy night in Stoke?" in football. That's not the case with modern football, 9 times out of 10 the team that's better on the ball and more talented wins. Even Arsenal, the ultimate physical bottle jobs, only lose a handful like that a year.

Out of interest, where do you think Sissoko stands with everyone fit? For me, he's comfortably behind Wanyama, Dier, Dembele, Winks, Eriksen, Alli, Lamela and Son. He's above Nkoudu in the pecking order though.

So that's 8 players ahead of him playing for 4 or 5 slots depending on formation. If Dier's covering in defence then it's 7 players ahead of him for 4 or 5 places. That means he's at least one place short of being in the match day squad, possibly two or three.
 
You are missing the point.
The cups are not our primary goal, I agree. But doesn’t mean we can’t win one on the way, like City, Chelsea and the rest. He doesn’t need to say anything.For example. Everybody’s know Chelsea are not prioritising the Carabao cup as none of the top teams are! But Conte does not knock any competition.
Made exactly the same point myself in the match thread. It goes WITHOUT saying that the Caraboo Cup is our lowest priority. When the manager actually expresses it there is no way that it could not adversely affect the players mentality. Stupid by Poch and even more so given that he has won zilch as a manager and diddly squat with us.
 
Made exactly the same point myself in the match thread. It goes WITHOUT saying that the Caraboo Cup is our lowest priority. When the manager actually expresses it there is no way that it could not adversely affect the players mentality. Stupid by Poch and even more so given that he has won zilch as a manager and diddly squat with us.

Pochettinno is doing a good job, so I give him a pass on some of his utterings.
The need to say ‘something’ to the press is his big problem. He intimates something along these lines ‘I/we haven’t won a cup because as I don’t think they are worthwhile for a club like Spurs’, crazy. You would think the press department would stop this on the back of poor seat sales alone. But for me it is beyond stupid for a club to put out such a message, naive.
Almost like some of the stupid utterings from the West Ham hierarchy?
 
Made exactly the same point myself in the match thread. It goes WITHOUT saying that the Caraboo Cup is our lowest priority. When the manager actually expresses it there is no way that it could not adversely affect the players mentality. Stupid by Poch and even more so given that he has won zilch as a manager and diddly squat with us.

Some will not listen mate, and i do NOT mean the players.
 
Still absolutely baffled that this ‘Poch hates the cups’ thing is getting so much mileage.
No,people aren't saying that,they recognise the need to prioritise. What they don't get is why openly say these cups aren't as important? Even more laughable as he didn't pick a particularly weakened team. All he had to say was we aim to win every competition we're in, whilst rotating the squad - not hard is it?
 
To show I can be balanced in my views of him, I thought Sissoko was absolutely terrible against Man Utd, his worst performance of the season. I was baffled why Poch kept him on so long.

And I agree with his place in the pecking order Scara. Unfortunately our injury situation hasn't been the best this season and it has meant he has therefor had to play in many games.
 
I don't like bashing one particular player and singling them out but he is such a bad player in my opinion. His first touch is awful and doesn't seem to have any kind of guile or skill. Reminds me a Zokora, with a slightly worse engine.
 

Sissoko is a midfielder and not a regular goal scorer. So he can be forgiven for miss like this. Kane has missed much worse sitters. Look at 89m Pogba and 75m Lukaku missing back-to-back sitters against Real Madrid in the Super Cup final.


Atleast Sissoko was far away from the goal. It is comical the way 89m Pogba making a soft header like a back pass and 75m Lukaku missing a sitter like that just a few inches from the the goal.:D
 
No,people aren't saying that,they recognise the need to prioritise. What they don't get is why openly say these cups aren't as important? Even more laughable as he didn't pick a particularly weakened team. All he had to say was we aim to win every competition we're in, whilst rotating the squad - not hard is it?

If it’s so not hard, perhaps there’s a reason he’s doing it the way he’s doing it?

And before I go on, let me say that I would also love to win any trophy. When we beat Chelsea in 2008 it was an amazing day.

I just think it’s a massive simplification of what he’s trying to achieve. Oh he said he’d prefer the PL and CL so obviously the players aren’t going to try...it’s a very basic reductive analysis of the situation and not really taking into account a bunch of other factors.

Firstly, what Poch says in the media and what he tells the players behind closed doors are two different things, sometimes massively so. The media efforts are about reducing pressure, controlling the narrative, and reinforcing the messages he wants to reinforce.

There are a couple of things - maybe he has seen the ‘but they won’t be anything until they’ve won something’ narrative creep up a little bit too much for his liking and he wants to make the point that we are on a broader journey to transform the club, the mentality of the squad, where they should be expected to compete, and what they should consider their goals to be.

Maybe in the middle of a massive month with games against top teams and direct rivals, you need to take the pressure off and increase the freedom in a game that is of less importance. He’s taken us to a FA Cup semi final and a League Cup final, so it’s not as if he is throwing the cups. But beating your chest and saying ‘WE MUST WIN!!’ doesn’t always lead to better performance. Sometimes a better motivational tactic is to reduce pressure and increase freedom. Or maybe it could be a million other reasons that he is taking a very obvious decision to spin this line when he doesn’t need to.

But the point about what he says in private is also a massive one. Just read his book. The standards he expects do not drop because of what he says in public. He’s also playing a load of first team players because he expects them to perform. His comment after the match that maybe some players wouldn’t play on Saturday because their standards dropped on Wednesday was telling. He is big on players having to find the hunger and the motivation within themselves because he knows external motivation is fleeting. If any players took the opportunity to try any less against West Ham they aren’t the right players for him.

And again, I just cannot see how this argument that media comments linked to our underperformance when we stormed into a 2-0 lead. It makes no logical sense. The players were obviously motivated enough to perform, but let complacency creep in when they were ahead. But complacency is not the same as thinking the competition is less important from the start - it is a response to a situation that developed in the match. And Foyth switched off for their second - but he was saying before the game he expected Foyth to step up to prove he could play in the league. But clearly he wasn’t give the rest of the team a free pass to try less and leave him exposed because the LC means less. He still expects them to uphold the standards he has set.

Again, read his book and understand what he expects every day. Standards are high. But what he says in public and private are going to be very different things because they have different objectives and audiences.
 
If it’s so not hard, perhaps there’s a reason he’s doing it the way he’s doing it?

And before I go on, let me say that I would also love to win any trophy. When we beat Chelsea in 2008 it was an amazing day.

I just think it’s a massive simplification of what he’s trying to achieve. Oh he said he’d prefer the PL and CL so obviously the players aren’t going to try...it’s a very basic reductive analysis of the situation and not really taking into account a bunch of other factors.

Firstly, what Poch says in the media and what he tells the players behind closed doors are two different things, sometimes massively so. The media efforts are about reducing pressure, controlling the narrative, and reinforcing the messages he wants to reinforce.

There are a couple of things - maybe he has seen the ‘but they won’t be anything until they’ve won something’ narrative creep up a little bit too much for his liking and he wants to make the point that we are on a broader journey to transform the club, the mentality of the squad, where they should be expected to compete, and what they should consider their goals to be.

Maybe in the middle of a massive month with games against top teams and direct rivals, you need to take the pressure off and increase the freedom in a game that is of less importance. He’s taken us to a FA Cup semi final and a League Cup final, so it’s not as if he is throwing the cups. But beating your chest and saying ‘WE MUST WIN!!’ doesn’t always lead to better performance. Sometimes a better motivational tactic is to reduce pressure and increase freedom. Or maybe it could be a million other reasons that he is taking a very obvious decision to spin this line when he doesn’t need to.

But the point about what he says in private is also a massive one. Just read his book. The standards he expects do not drop because of what he says in public. He’s also playing a load of first team players because he expects them to perform. His comment after the match that maybe some players wouldn’t play on Saturday because their standards dropped on Wednesday was telling. He is big on players having to find the hunger and the motivation within themselves because he knows external motivation is fleeting. If any players took the opportunity to try any less against West Ham they aren’t the right players for him.

And again, I just cannot see how this argument that media comments linked to our underperformance when we stormed into a 2-0 lead. It makes no logical sense. The players were obviously motivated enough to perform, but let complacency creep in when they were ahead. But complacency is not the same as thinking the competition is less important from the start - it is a response to a situation that developed in the match. And Foyth switched off for their second - but he was saying before the game he expected Foyth to step up to prove he could play in the league. But clearly he wasn’t give the rest of the team a free pass to try less and leave him exposed because the LC means less. He still expects them to uphold the standards he has set.

Again, read his book and understand what he expects every day. Standards are high. But what he says in public and private are going to be very different things because they have different objectives and audiences.
If Poch was throwing the league cup he wouldn’t have started anyone who played vs united. That team was more than good enough to be the Spam and that’s what was needed. The fact that Toby switched off for 3 goals is annoying and unheard of to date but IMO Poch can’t take the blame for that
 
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