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Mousa Dembele

Spur of the moment said:
So he only ups his game against the best?
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He didn't play many games thought did he to be fair. He had a poor game vs wet spam but so did plenty and he was kind of hung out after that

Seriously there have been worse performances by players much worse it they have had the slack

Surely your better judging a player against the best in the league rather than the worst???

I've seen plenty of flat track bully's suffer against the good players. Suarez did that a lot (don't get me wrong He is class as a player) but he didn't do much against the top teams. It's one thing scoring 8 of 9 goals vs Norwich but do it against te better sides to show your quality and dembele certainly did that for us last season
 
I quite rate Dembele. I think he's a useful squad player... in many ways like Dempsey; not in terms of the type of player he is, but in terms of being a useful utility player (I feel Dembele can do a job in most midfield positions if required) who I'd love to see as part of our 25-man squad over a season, even though I wouldn't necessarily list him as first choice in any particular position. Certainly I can think of a fair few of our current squad who I'd get rid of before him.
 
If Mourinho really does want Dembele, I think we are entering a new ego phase - first Falcao, the Dembele.

Both clearly have ability that hasn't been fully used by managers so Jose will show them how it's done - that kind of thing
 
milo said:
I think that his tendency to linger on the ball and his lack of goals mean that he is always going to struggle to hold down a place further forward
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Don't buy it. As already mentioned he performed well in some big games. I think his 'lingering on the ball' is a bit over exaggerated to be honest. And regardless of that he must of been doing something right in the games we played because our front unit looked much more threatening. Whether that was simply him being able to maintain possession better, or simply occupying defenders meaning others have more chances I don't know. But we looked better going forward with him playing further up the pitch and that's all I care about....
 
harr1984 said:
Don't buy it. As already mentioned he performed well in some big games. I think his 'lingering on the ball' is a bit over exaggerated to be honest. And regardless of that he must of been doing something right in the games we played because our front unit looked much more threatening. Whether that was simply him being able to maintain possession better, or simply occupying defenders meaning others have more chances I don't know. But we looked better going forward with him playing further up the pitch and that's all I care about....
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I think that he is a good option in games against the bigger teams. He is very difficult to get off of the ball and closes down well. What he is not so good at is releasing the ball quickly and shooting.

If Demebele is happy to stay with us and start ten league games a season, I think that he is a good option to have in the squad. But we also have to be realistic and recognise that we have a big squad and need to move players on to create space for new signings and youth players. You can only sell players that you receive bids for and if Demebele is not going to feature regularly and we receive a good bid, I think that we need to seriously consider it.
 
The reason Dembele works well against the better side is because he holds he ball up in their half in dangerous areas and gives it to our more creative players to create with!!!

Other than Kane we have no other player who holds the ball up at all. I don't mean the classic big player style, I mean the players who physically keep the ball by strength and or skill

That isn't effective against the lesser sides who sit back any how and let you come at them, but that's probably only half the teams in the league to be fair. And even less now with Hull gone

He should have been used a lot more towards the latter parts of the season when we had the blip IMO
 
harr1984 said:
Don't buy it. As already mentioned he performed well in some big games. I think his 'lingering on the ball' is a bit over exaggerated to be honest. And regardless of that he must of been doing something right in the games we played because our front unit looked much more threatening. Whether that was simply him being able to maintain possession better, or simply occupying defenders meaning others have more chances I don't know. But we looked better going forward with him playing further up the pitch and that's all I care about....
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I saw Commoli and his cohort talk about this 'stat' in the prozone presentation in another thread. They were discussing how top DM's retain possession, draw multiple players to them and release the ball to a team mates accurately while under pressure. Effectively they were talking about the space created for others by these types of players. I believe Dembele is a good example of this just further up the pitch. It's no coincidence that players like Eriksen and Chadli seem to play better when Dembele is on the pitch. He skips by players with ease drawing other defenders out of position. This helps his teammates when he finds them, but certainly his indecision inthe final third needs to be addressed. It is still very effective though.
 
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Rorschach said:
I saw Commoli and his cohort talk about this 'stat' in the prozone presentation in another thread. They were discussing how top DM's retain possession, draw multiple players to them and release the ball to a team mates accurately while under pressure. Effectively they were talking about the space created for others by these types of players. I believe Dembele is a good example of this just further up the pitch. It's no coincidence that players like Eriksen and Chadli seem to play better when Dembele is on the pitch. He skips by players with ease drawing other defenders out of position. This helps his teammates when he finds them, but certainly his indecision inthe final third needs to be addressed. It is still very effective though.
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I'd be interested in seeing Dembele's stats on this because I think, certainly when played deeper, his slowness to release the ball often reduces our attacking options.
 
milo said:
I'd be interested in seeing Dembele's stats on this because I think, certainly when played deeper, his slowness to release the ball often reduces our attacking options.
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I love to see these myself but pro-zone stats are a little harder to come by :(. The measurements appear to include how many players are drawn to the man in possession and levels of pressure on the ball carrier. Tricky stuff to measure I imagine but measurable with the right technology it seems.

I think you are right on Dembele's reluctance to release the ball forward quickly when playing deeper. I certainly don't think it is as bad as some on here would have you believe, but generally speaking he reverts to AVB mode when played as a CM. Up the pitch I would argue his ball retention is a plus.
 
Rorschach said:
I love to see these myself but pro-zone stats are a little harder to come by :(. The measurements appear to include how many players are drawn to the man in possession and levels of pressure on the ball carrier. Tricky stuff to measure I imagine but measurable with the right technology it seems.

I think you are right on Dembele's reluctance to release the ball forward quickly when playing deeper. I certainly don't think it is as bad as some on here would have you believe, but generally speaking he reverts to AVB mode when played as a CM. Up the pitch I would argue his ball retention is a plus.
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I'd like to see more of him further forward but I do think that his reluctance to shoot is a bit of an issue there.
 
milo said:
I'd like to see more of him further forward but I do think that his reluctance to shoot is a bit of an issue there.
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I agree. And looking at his skill set you have to wonder why he doesn't shoot more often. My theory is that the coaching he has had in England is a big part of this reluctance to shoot (AVB in particular) and this is borne out if you watch him as a younger man playing for Alkmar. You would see that he had no problem skipping past a man and pulling the trigger. A good coach should be able to get him back to this, but he has to do it this season or never.
 
Rorschach said:
I agree. And looking at his skill set you have to wonder why he doesn't shoot more often. My theory is that the coaching he has had in England is a big part of this reluctance to shoot (AVB in particular) and this is borne out if you watch him as a younger man playing for Alkmar. You would see that he had no problem skipping past a man and pulling the trigger. A good coach should be able to get him back to this, but he has to do it this season or never.
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They were discussing this on Football Weekly sometime last season. Evidently he used to play with his mates on basketball pitches without goals and they basically played keep ball. They were speculating that this might be why he is so strong on the ball but doesn't shoot very often. It could all be rubbish, of course, but it is strange because he has quite a good shot on him.
 
milo said:
They were discussing this on Football Weekly sometime last season. Evidently he used to play with his mates on basketball pitches without goals and they basically played keep ball. They were speculating that this might be why he is so strong on the ball but doesn't shoot very often. It could all be rubbish, of course, but it is strange because he has quite a good shot on him.
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This came out of an interview dembele did 4 years back.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ssa-Dembele-A-new-hero-town--ball-friend.html

The goal was the pole which held up the basketball hoop and scoring entailed striking the pole.

‘It was five-a-side. The pole was such a small target that you had to play one-twos, use your technical skill to get a goal. It gave me a solution for everything. That’s why the ball is my friend,’
 
The guy rarely assists, rarely scores and doesn't defend effectively. A luxury player of the highest order. He does possess exquisite skills, but without the former attributes he is worthless to the team.
 
Really frustrating as if he could just change slightly and I do mean slightly then he'd be such an elite level player. Would be interesting to see if any coaches have commented on how they have overcome barriers like that with a player who just needs a bit more confidence/change to playing style to succeed but have all the natural attributes.

He has been with us 3 years so must only have 2 yrs left on his contract, I've not seen talk of a renewal so it may well be we're open to selling him.
 
P.D. said:
Really frustrating as if he could just change slightly and I do mean slightly then he'd be such an elite level player. Would be interesting to see if any coaches have commented on how they have overcome barriers like that with a player who just needs a bit more confidence/change to playing style to succeed but have all the natural attributes.

He has been with us 3 years so must only have 2 yrs left on his contract, I've not seen talk of a renewal so it may well be we're open to selling him.
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i saw an interview with him once where he said he never watches any football away from the pitch, just not interested at all......he seems to lack passion for the game and is happy simply to go thru the motions week in week out and get paid for it.
 
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