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Mousa Dembele

scaramanga said:
It's not about momentum - that's a different way of getting past an opponent, based on one touch passing and pacy players. Also a useful tactic, but requires space and is less easily used by a team that goes into most matches as clear favourite.

This is about vertical penetration (fnar) through an organised and settled defence. You can pass through that, but if the defence is properly organised and tracks runs properly, then they will always be between us and the ball. If a player can do what Dembele does and get past a line in possession, then they need to move out of shape to stay goalside of all our players.
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Thats not what I meant. I meant attacking momentum, not literal.

Ideally Dembele breaks the lines, puts the ball in someones path and we are a pass away from a shot. That sort of momentum.

Practically? Dembele holds the ball and over plays it to such a degree that the moment is lost, and we arent exactly much better off for the whole move. Save, of course, for maintaining possession.
 
ShipOfGoldblum said:
Isn't it precisely the opposite? Our full backs tend to excel at wingbackery.
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On paper because Trippier can cross, but that doesnt make him a good wing back, more a good crosser
He hasnt got pace to get back, can get caught out of position but is good defending one on one as part of a deep-line

Davies pretty similar, cant go round the outside, hasnt got the pace to get back, but better positionally and good at cutting inside

Aurier - who knows if he can be repaired
Rose - can do everything but fitness and age catching up
 
scaramanga said:
Breaking lines, he's one of the only players we have who can do it reliably.

Watch the rest of the team when Dembele has the ball at his feet and faces up his opponent. They all gamble that he will get the other side of the defensive line and make their forward runs. That's a very valuable skill. It can obviously be done with passing, but then you have an extra man the wrong side of the line. Being able to beat a defender with the ball (note, not with pace as there isn't the space in these scenarios) almost 400% of the time is an incredible valuable skill.
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Kind of negates the advantage when he turns back and says it off.
 
imcallingbullsh*t said:
On paper because Trippier can cross, but that doesnt make him a good wing back, more a good crosser
He hasnt got pace to get back, can get caught out of position but is good defending one on one as part of a deep-line

Davies pretty similar, cant go round the outside, hasnt got the pace to get back, but better positionally and good at cutting inside

Aurier - who knows if he can be repaired
Rose - can do everything but fitness and age catching up
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Is idea though that the dm drops in to cover the CB as they go wider to cover the fbs?
 
Strange really that a player with no drive, no forward momentum, cannot defend, holds on to the ball too long, adds little to our attack was so critical to our team that we struggled to buy a win without him a few seasons ago. But hey what do I know.

He is definitely not the player he was. But when Dembele plays well he still dominates opposing teams and a lot of our problems stem from him not being as effective as before and from us not having a proper replacement. I think the problem currently is that he plays too deep. His best position for me was as one of the three behind Kane where he would win the ball back higher up the pitch. He was shoehorned into a defensive midfield role which like Dier he adapted to but perhaps was never really suited to.

What will it take or his own fans to appreciate him? Poch loves him, his team mates claim he is the best player at the club. Pundits recognise his talent. Yet we can't appreciate what a great player he once was for us. I can't remember a more dominant midfielder for us in recent times.
 
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nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I dont disagree that his skill set is unique. And in full flow he really can be a joy to watch.

But... Do we even need his skill set? What is it exactly?

He is not explicitly defensive enough to be a DM, but doesnt offer enough going forward to be an AM, so in the end is a player that often unbalances things IMO.

Strong as an ox, insanely good dribbler, damn near impossible to get the ball off of and pretty solid defensively.

And yet - doesnt do much for us going forward, lacks incision, holds the ball to long, lacks vision really, and doesnt offer goals/assists.

He is a very odd player. As much as I enjoy so much about him, he has always been kind of frustrating too.

I do wonder if we will be better off for letting him go, to be honest.

Put it this way, when a player is that unique, and impossible to replace as you say, then naturally there is no consistency in the team between when he does/doesnt play. Things change substantially, and his appearance record isnt reliable enough to build a team to suit him - nor does he offer enough to justify that IMHO.
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We needed to move him on (for the good of all) yet he wanted large wonga! Given that we couldn’t move him on, I wish he would stay fit for appearances off the bench!


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
He has not been the player he was and I know many think he's not produced the goods in the attacking areas, but he gives our defenders confidence to play the ball to him, there's nothing worse when You're a defender and your players lose the ball when you've just got it back, he gives us a degree of control. That was Bentalebs problem, kept losing the ball around our box.
 
Robspur12 said:
Bit harsh Steff seeing as the wolves player landed on his lower leg twisting it in the process!
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apparently it’s not an impact injury too, just a muscle injury

Sorry sounds daft, when I mentioned it in the match post I was knocked down for saying it’s an impact injury which we haven’t had many of so far (most have been muscle injuries)
 
thfcsteff said:
We needed to move him on (for the good of all) yet he wanted large wonga! Given that we couldn’t move him on, I wish he would stay fit for appearances off the bench!
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Raises an interesting point - Rose, Alderweireld, Dembele (others?) thinking they were ripe for a big pay day, and a few months later - how likely does it look now?

Im not saying they should have blindly just signed deals with us, or taken whatever offers they had - rather just observing that holding out that extra bit can backfire.

Alderweireld was demanding (allegedly) £180k a week from us, then moved the goal posts. Doesnt look much like a £180k player at the minute, does he? Yes, Im sure Man Utd or alike might stretch to it out of desperation for a defender, but is much less certain.

Dembele had demands beyond Inter and China, do you think theyll be back in for him now?
 
Robspur12 said:
Strange really that a player with no drive, no forward momentum, cannot defend, holds on to the ball too long, adds little to our attack was so critical to our team that we struggled to buy a win without him a few seasons ago. But hey what do I know.

He is definitely not the player he was. But when Dembele plays well he still dominates opposing teams and a lot of our problems stem from him not being as effective as before and from us not having a proper replacement. I think the problem currently is that he plays too deep. His best position for me was as one of the three behind Kane where he would win the ball back higher up the pitch. He was shoehorned into a defensive midfield role which like Dier he adapted to but perhaps was never really suited to.

What will it take or his own fans to appreciate him? Poch loves him, his team mates claim he is the best player at the club. Pundits recognise his talent. Yet we can't appreciate what a great player he once was for us. I can't remember a more dominant midfielder for us in recent times.
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He has always held the ball to long and stunted our forward momentum. You can go back years and find people making the same point.

I havent seen anyone say he cant defend, rather that he isnt explicitly defensive.

I actually dont like him that far forward. I see the sense in winning it upfield (though, usually, Alli/Eriksen and co do fine themselves) but when he is up there his limitations are more exposed. In that deeper position he actually has room to run into and then give it off - and also means we can accomodate another attacking player. Thats my preference anyway.

When he is on point he does have that wonderful ability to dominate, as you say, and its probably his biggest strength. Even so, Ive been open for a while now to the idea of getting in more balance to CM. I think with such unique players there are always compromises, and at times they can become too much of a compromise to accomodate.
 
BBC just reported from Poch's conference that he's out until the new year!

Dembele out until New Year

Crystal Palace v Tottenham (Sat, 17:30 GMT)

090b5b10-437a-467b-9fa1-16808ae8d27c.jpg

Tottenham Hotspur

Tottenham midfielder Mousa Dembele has been ruled out until the New Year, with scans having shown ligament damage in his right ankle.

Eric Dier (thigh) and Victor Wanyama (knee) have returned to training with the squad.

Jan Vertonghen (hamstring) and Danny Rose (groin) are both continuing rehabilitation.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
At which point we would sell him for a minimal fee, because that way we at least get some money
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Doubt he would agree to any transfer then and just sit it out for the last few months of his contract for one big pay day, it is not like he has to play to get into a world cup squad or anything in the summer.

He has been good for us but the is always a mistake in him for my liking a bit like against man u in the semi final last season.

That French lad playing over in Italy looks pretty good, Kondogbia.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Doubt he would agree to any transfer then and just sit it out for the last few months of his contract for one big pay day, it is not like he has to play to get into a world cup squad or anything in the summer.

He has been good for us but the is always a mistake in him for my liking a bit like against man u in the semi final last season.

That French lad playing over in Italy looks pretty good, Kondogbia.
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Isn’t he at Valencia now ?
He was bloody immense and for me it was him or NDombele that we shouldn’t have gone for in the summer
 
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