Morgan Schneiderlin

[Maltese Falcon]

He's a distributor from deep, and combines Dier and Dembele's roles, IMO, given that he did, when on form, drive Soton forward in a similar manner to how Dembele now carries us forward - while staying solid at the back to boot.

Still, I think we're in no major need of reinforcements in the CM/ DM positions right now. I'll break with the seemingly popular opinion and state that I'm not exactly sure what Winks *does* as of yet - as in, I'm not sure if he's a distributor like Luka, a dribbler like Dembele, a destroyer like Dier or just a Mason/Carroll-esque mix of two or more roles. Still, he's more than adequate cover for Dembele, whatever his role - that lessens our need for Schneiderlin or a player like him.

I take it you have not seen him play too often then.... Despite his size, Winks does not shirk a tackle but his main strength - as I see it - is his ability to keep the ball moving. What impresses me about him is that within a second or two of getting the ball, he has already kept the ball moving and, more often than not, forward. He's not a Modric though, because Luka had/has this magical ability of keeping the ball glued to his feet while marauding across the midfield until he could see an opening. If there is one player Winks reminds me, it would be a young Xavi. Obviously he's only played a handful of games but I do believe he has great potential, even if not at the level of the Spaniard (but then who does?)

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I take it you have not seen him play too often then.... Despite his size, Winks does not shirk a tackle but his main strength - as I see it - is his ability to keep the ball moving. What impresses me about him is that within a second or two of getting the ball, he has already kept the ball moving and, more often than not, forward. He's not a Modric though, because Luka had/has this magical ability of keeping the ball glued to his feet while marauding across the midfield until he could see an opening. If there is one player Winks reminds me, it would be a young Xavi. Obviously he's only played a handful of games but I do believe he has great potential, even if not at the level of the Spaniard (but then who does?)

We never saw modric at this age. He was playing much lower level

 

[DubaiSpur]

I take it you have not seen him play too often then.... Despite his size, Winks does not shirk a tackle but his main strength - as I see it - is his ability to keep the ball moving. What impresses me about him is that within a second or two of getting the ball, he has already kept the ball moving and, more often than not, forward. He's not a Modric though, because Luka had/has this magical ability of keeping the ball glued to his feet while marauding across the midfield until he could see an opening. If there is one player Winks reminds me, it would be a young Xavi. Obviously he's only played a handful of games but I do believe he has great potential, even if not at the level of the Spaniard (but then who does?)

Well, I've seen every first team game he's played so far, pretty much. As I said, keeping the ball moving is something Carroll is also proficient at doing - Mason was known for it too. There isn't an element to his play yet that distinguishes him as particularly good at the more substantive aspects of chance creation - dribbling, long passing et al. It's why no one calls Carroll the next Modric or Xavi - he does much the same thing, but it takes more than efficient distribution and movement to be called Xavi-esque, imo.

Either way, point is, whatever he evolves into, he's good backup right now, so another CM is somewhat unnecessary.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

Well, I've seen every first team game he's played so far, pretty much. As I said, keeping the ball moving is something Carroll is also proficient at doing - Mason was known for it too. There isn't an element to his play yet that distinguishes him as particularly good at the more substantive aspects of chance creation - dribbling, long passing et al. It's why no one calls Carroll the next Modric or Xavi - he does much the same thing, but it takes more than efficient distribution and movement to be called Xavi-esque, imo.

Either way, point is, whatever he evolves into, he's good backup right now, so another CM is somewhat unnecessary.

I always thought that distribution and movement were actually the epitome of the Xavi-esque player??? But then what would I know??

Your comment about Carroll reminds me when Ledley started playing in the team in 1999; at the same time a young Alton Thelwell was also getting into the first team from the academy; both were defenders and played in similar positions. They were pretty similar in style but you could see immediately the cut above that Ledley was.

I see the same between Winks and Carroll - both have nominally similar style but you just look at Winks playing and he makes you stop and take notice of him during a game; Carroll never did that.... difficult to describe it but it's a intangible impression that Dele also showed in his initial cameos. I have great hopes for the lad which I have never had for Carroll.

 

[GGyid]

I've also seen all his games so far and noticed his ability Modric-like not to lose the ball, such as when receiving a ball his first touch is to move it away from a threatening opposing player. He moves the ball forward whenever an opportunity is available, he'll make a simple pass to retain the urgency and he doesn't as yet look for an over-ambitious pass. Retaining possession means the other side can't score, and waiting for the opening to be created is how all the top teams play. His style of play fits into this philosophy perfectly. And, he doesn't shirk a tackle Son-like. He's head and shoulders above Carroll and Mason.

 

[DubaiSpur]

I always thought that distribution and movement were actully the epitome of the Xavi-esque player??? But then what would I know??

Your comment about Carroll reminds me when Ledley started playing in the team in 1999; at the same time a young Alton Thelwell was also getting into the first team from the academy; both were defenders and played in similar positions. They were pretty similar in style but you could see immediately the cut above that Ledley was.

I see the same between Winks and Carroll - both have nominally similar style but you just look at Winks playing and he makes you stop and take notice of him during a game; Carroll never did that.... difficult to describe it but it's a intangible impression that Dele also showed in his initial cameos. I have great hopes for the lad which I have never had for Carroll.

Distribution, yes. That doesn't imply simple give-and-gos as the only method of moving the ball around - to be good at distribution, you have to be as adept at playing in runners off the shoulder with 60-yard passes as you are at simple back-and-forth passes with the players around you. More than that, you have to set the tempo of the side - if the ball flows through you, then the game speeds up or slows down at your command.

Winks may or may not have those abilities, but he hasn't yet shown anything that marks him out as better than Carroll or Mason when they first occupied a regular first-team place, imo. @GGyid 's comparisons with Modric are a pointer in this regard, because they almost exactly mirror what I remember people saying about Carroll when he first burst onto the scene as our great white hope from the academy.

I'm glad you see something in Winks that sets him apart from Carroll in a manner that brings to mind the difference between Ledley and Thelwell, but I don't think he's yet shown any substantive difference to Carroll or Mason - at best, you can say that his willingness to get stuck in, move the ball around quickly and get forward bring to mind a combination of Mason and Carroll in terms of their respective playing styles. Being excited about players from the academy's great, of course, but throwing around comparisons to Xavi isn't exactly helpful to either the player or a realistic appraisal of where he's at and where he's aiming to be.

Anyway, for now, he's a Spurs fan, he's shown a willingness to graft and be brave on and off the ball, he's looked comfortable playing with and against players older than him, and he's from our academy - he keeps the ball well, and distributes it decently, if not particularly incisively. Plus, he's 20 going on 21, so significant improvement is to be expected either way, which could turn him into a top player in the future if we're lucky. That's more than good enough for me in terms of a backup for Dembele.

 

[Robspur12]

I certainly like Winks but I haven't seen any thing yet to suggest he is going to be in the same class as Ledley. I felt Bentaleb had a higher ceiling and I am still slightly disappointed it didn't work out. I wonder if bentaleb had managed to cement a place would we have seen Winks in the first team so soon?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I've also seen all his games so far and noticed his ability Modric-like not to lose the ball, such as when receiving a ball his first touch is to move it away from a threatening opposing player. He moves the ball forward whenever an opportunity is available, he'll make a simple pass to retain the urgency and he doesn't as yet look for an over-ambitious pass. Retaining possession means the other side can't score, and waiting for the opening to be created is how all the top teams play. His style of play fits into this philosophy perfectly. And, he doesn't shirk a tackle Son-like. He's head and shoulders above Carroll and Mason.

I agree 100%

 

[afsoc4life]

Agree on the posts above. Strongly believe that it depends on if he has the desire to reach that level. I do wish we had kept Bentaleb.

 

[thfcsteff]

Well, I've seen every first team game he's played so far, pretty much. As I said, keeping the ball moving is something Carroll is also proficient at doing - Mason was known for it too. There isn't an element to his play yet that distinguishes him as particularly good at the more substantive aspects of chance creation - dribbling, long passing et al. It's why no one calls Carroll the next Modric or Xavi - he does much the same thing, but it takes more than efficient distribution and movement to be called Xavi-esque, imo.

Either way, point is, whatever he evolves into, he's good backup right now, so another CM is somewhat unnecessary.

Winks doesn't lose possession and aides our transitions with speedy quick passing and movement. I really like him. Much stronger on the ball than Carroll and carried a goal threat too.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Agree on the posts above. Strongly believe that it depends on if he has the desire to reach that level. I do wish we had kept Bentaleb.

I wanted Bentaleb to succeed for us, and much as I think you must expect young players to make mistakes as it's all part of the learning process I was disappointed and annoyed when he kept doing the same thing which lost us possession of the ball near our goal. I assume that he had been told of this problem and chose to ignore it. I feel that the penny will drop with him and he'll be a top player, sometimes players just have to move on to complete their development.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Winks doesn't lose possession and aides our transitions with speedy quick passing and movement. I really like him. Much stronger on the ball than Carroll and carried a goal threat too.

Not losing possession and passing quickly are things Carroll does too. Mason, on the other hand, carried a goal threat and aided our attacking transitions. Sort of ties into what I said - right now, at best ,he's a combination of Carroll and Mason, which makes him superior to both overall but about the same (or even somewhat worse) at each of their strengths individually.

We'll see how he develops - but right now, he doesn't really fit an archetype of any player expected to dictate the game from the deeper positions, imo.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Jonathan Pearce was saying on Radio 5 last night how he'd had a chat with Poch about Winks, and said Poch genuinely rates him as a world class player in the making.

 

[braineclipse]

Not losing possession and passing quickly are things Carroll does too. Mason, on the other hand, carried a goal threat and aided our attacking transitions. Sort of ties into what I said - right now, at best ,he's a combination of Carroll and Mason, which makes him superior to both overall but about the same (or even somewhat worse) at each of their strengths individually.

We'll see how he develops - but right now, he doesn't really fit an archetype of any player expected to dictate the game from the deeper positions, imo.

What are those archetypes in your opinion?

What is Winks missing to fit one of them?

 

[scaramanga]

I wanted Bentaleb to succeed for us, and much as I think you must expect young players to make mistakes as it's all part of the learning process I was disappointed and annoyed when he kept doing the same thing which lost us possession of the ball near our goal. I assume that he had been told of this problem and chose to ignore it. I feel that the penny will drop with him and he'll be a top player, sometimes players just have to move on to complete their development.

I wonder what his chances of succeeding would have been if he had been introduced slowly into the team like proper managers do.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I wonder what his chances of succeeding would have been if he had been introduced slowly into the team like proper managers do.

I believe the poor form of other players was partly responsible for the number of games he played, would an other manager have played those out of form players? who can tell. One thing I'm sure of is if he had played more games in the U21's he would have gained little as the standard is not as good as the clubs hoped.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I wonder what his chances of succeeding would have been if he had been introduced slowly into the team like proper managers do.

I'm not convinced any other manager would have played him full stop. Sherwood brought him in to prove the youth set up and he did well so stayed in. We have now upgraded on him so he has gone.... nothing unusual there

 

[Gazza]

I'm not convinced any other manager would have played him full stop. Sherwood brought him in to prove the youth set up and he did well so stayed in. We have now upgraded on him so he has gone.... nothing unusual there

I also have faith in poch in identifying players that fit into his system. Would rather have an average player that follows instruction for the team vs a player that is world class and plays about outside of the system.

 

[scaramanga]

I'm not convinced any other manager would have played him full stop. Sherwood brought him in to prove the youth set up and he did well so stayed in. We have now upgraded on him so he has gone.... nothing unusual there

I think given his talents he'd have got a chance - that's what it should have been though.

A slower introduction to the team would have allowed mental growth along with his more skillful attributes.

He was, unfortunately, brought in on an agenda and we'll never know, but I'd like to see how he would have done with an introduction to the team like Winks is getting.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I wonder what his chances of succeeding would have been if he had been introduced slowly into the team like proper managers do.

Being sold for £18m isn't a success?