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Morgan Schneiderlin

I think Poch agreed to all the things AVB agreed to when he signed up with the club. And I think Poch is learning, just like AVB, that there are definitely very hard and very real 'limits' to the backing we're prepared to give him, and going all out for a player he feels is vital to the system is beyond those limits.

I just hope that ultimately, the parallels to AVB's time in charge end there and don't extend to him walking like AVB did at the end, with the fanbase quick to shout 'inflexible' and 'incompetent' at his back as he walks away. If he leaves after proving unable to secure his primary targets and after proving unable to implement his philosophy here, take it from me, I for one will not be blaming him regardless of what happens: my ire will be focused on the man at the very top this time.

Source?

You think there was one player at Espanyol, or one player at Southampton that those clubs just had to sign because that one player was vital to his system?

In the end the idea that Poch wants us to sign Schneiderlin at any cost is complete and utter speculation.
 
Source?

You think there was one player at Espanyol, or one player at Southampton that those clubs just had to sign because that one player was vital to his system?

In the end the idea that Poch wants us to sign Schneiderlin at any cost is complete and utter speculation.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ord-sign-Italy-striker-Pablo-Osvaldo-15m.html

Broke their transfer record to sign him. Saints didn't seem to mind, atlhough I do understand that it is a case of 'different club, different situation'. Just mentioning that maybe he does favour signing key players that are already familiar with his methods now and then. As for the importance he attaches to signing Schneiderlin, I've had my say on that. The number of news reports mentioning that transfer in July that mentioned Poch envisioning Schneiderlin as a 'key part' of his system is sginifcant enough and referred to enough that I don't see the need to repeat my assertions on the validity of those articles.
 
If Poch really wants this guy, lets test Southampton one more time. Include Andros. Include Bentaleb on loan. I think we can get it done.
 
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ord-sign-Italy-striker-Pablo-Osvaldo-15m.html

Broke their transfer record to sign him. Saints didn't seem to mind, atlhough I do understand that it is a case of 'different club, different situation'. Just mentioning that maybe he does favour signing key players that are already familiar with his methods now and then. As for the importance he attaches to signing Schneiderlin, I've had my say on that. The number of news reports mentioning that transfer in July that mentioned Poch envisioning Schneiderlin as a 'key part' of his system is sginifcant enough and referred to enough that I don't see the need to repeat my assertions on the validity of those articles.

Yeah. They broke their transfer record by £1-2m so obviously it was a vital player for Poch's system that he demanded that they just signed at any cost. So much so that after 9 PL starts, 3 goals and behind the scenes problems Poch was willing to let him go out on loan in January. They went on to have their best season "since ever" and Poch pretty much delivered on all expectations Southampton could possibly have without him. Not quite what I would describe as vital...

I'm not disagreeing on Poch wanting Schneiderlin. I've wanted Schneiderlin all along myself, before and after Poch was confirmed as our new head coach. But from that to Shcneiderlin being vital (in the true sense of the word) for Poch's system and that he should be signed at all cost and that this something Poch wants is a long step. Poch seems a lot more pragmatic than that to me at least.
 
Yeah. They broke their transfer record by £1-2m so obviously it was a vital player for Poch's system that he demanded that they just signed at any cost. So much so that after 9 PL starts, 3 goals and behind the scenes problems Poch was willing to let him go out on loan in January. They went on to have their best season "since ever" and Poch pretty much delivered on all expectations Southampton could possibly have without him. Not quite what I would describe as vital...

I'm not disagreeing on Poch wanting Schneiderlin. I've wanted Schneiderlin all along myself, before and after Poch was confirmed as our new head coach. But from that to Shcneiderlin being vital (in the true sense of the word) for Poch's system and that he should be signed at all cost and that this something Poch wants is a long step. Poch seems a lot more pragmatic than that to me at least.

Those are what forced him out, but it doesn't mean that Poch didn't see his signing as vital or even more beneficial than usual given his previous knowledge of Poch's system ( http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/414616/Southampton-bid-to-ascend-to-heavenly-heights ). Ultimately, it came down to Poch either sacrificing team unity for Osvaldo or Osvaldo for team unity: a difficult decision to make at the best of times, all the more so when Osvaldo was firmly a 'Poch favourite' (Guardian article a couple of months ago).

I see the parallels between Moutinho and Schneiderlin as too obvious and prominent to ignore. We'll see what happens tomorrow, but if we do miss out on him (As seems likely), Levy cannot be said to have backed Poch, and we cannot fancifully pretend that that is the case.
 
Bentaleb on loan my be a good one to offer. I don't like the idea, but it does mean they have a like for like player.
 
Those are what forced him out, but it doesn't mean that Poch didn't see his signing as vital or even more beneficial than usual given his previous knowledge of Poch's system ( http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/414616/Southampton-bid-to-ascend-to-heavenly-heights ). Ultimately, it came down to Poch either sacrificing team unity for Osvaldo or Osvaldo for team unity: a difficult decision to make at the best of times, all the more so when Osvaldo was firmly a 'Poch favourite' (Guardian article a couple of months ago).

I see the parallels between Moutinho and Schneiderlin as too obvious and prominent to ignore. We'll see what happens tomorrow, but if we do miss out on him (As seems likely), Levy cannot be said to have backed Poch, and we cannot fancifully pretend that that is the case.

How vital could he have been when the dumpsterfire of his half a season at Southampton coincided with them fulfilling every target they had that season? This is not how I understand "vital". If something vital fails then there are widespread consequences in my mind at least.

You have no idea what Levy, Baldini and Poch agreed on as our transfer plan this summer. You have no idea how far Pochettino wanted us to pursue Schneiderlin.
 
How vital could he have been when the dumpsterfire of his half a season at Southampton coincided with them fulfilling every target they had that season? This is not how I understand "vital". If something vital fails then there are widespread consequences in my mind at least.

You have no idea what Levy, Baldini and Poch agreed on as our transfer plan this summer. You have no idea how far Pochettino wanted us to pursue Schneiderlin.

This again. Well, here goes....no, I don't have an idea as to what they agreed on this summer. Considering how disillusioned AVB was with whatever it was he 'agreed' to when he became our manager, I'd say that there's a fair chance that whatever Poch agreed to as part of his five year contract didn't include missing out on first-choice targets with the consistency that we've maintained this summer, especially given the comments that followed AVB's acrimonious departure about players being shoved down his throat that didn't fit with the ones he wanted. It is extrapolation based on past events. Beyond that, I cannot say. Does that sufficiently explain my position to you?
 
This again. Well, here goes....no, I don't have an idea as to what they agreed on this summer. Considering how disillusioned AVB was with whatever it was he 'agreed' to when he became our manager, I'd say that there's a fair chance that whatever Poch agreed to as part of his five year contract didn't include missing out on first-choice targets with the consistency that we've maintained this summer, especially given the comments that followed AVB's acrimonious departure about players being shoved down his throat that didn't fit with the ones he wanted. It is extrapolation based on past events. Beyond that, I cannot say. Does that sufficiently explain my position to you?

Most reliable accounts that I have read said that it was made clear to AVB before he joined what our transfer policy was before he joined and then he asked for players that did not fit with this once he was appointed. When he did not get these players he had a row with Levy and then sulked. The situation this summer seems to be very different.
 
This again. Well, here goes....no, I don't have an idea as to what they agreed on this summer. Considering how disillusioned AVB was with whatever it was he 'agreed' to when he became our manager, I'd say that there's a fair chance that whatever Poch agreed to as part of his five year contract didn't include missing out on first-choice targets with the consistency that we've maintained this summer, especially given the comments that followed AVB's acrimonious departure about players being shoved down his throat that didn't fit with the ones he wanted. It is extrapolation based on past events. Beyond that, I cannot say. Does that sufficiently explain my position to you?

Well, this still actually as I continue to think that your reasoning is unsound on this.

I wouldn't read too much into what AVB said post departure. Any manager will try to save face and the "I didn't get the players I wanted" is pretty standard. And most players signed seemed to fit Baldini's profile rather well at least, and AVB said he wanted Baldini...

We lose out on targets. I mentioned Dempsey, Sig, Willian and Mkhitaryan in the other thread. That's targets Liverpool missed out on under Rodgers - juts one's I remembered off the top of my head. You aim high, at players that you might not get, then you live with not getting them and move on to the next name on the list.

Look at the players signed under Ramos/Comolli, then the change when Redknapp took over, then the change when AVB/Baldini were in charge. Extrapolate from that and it seems pretty clear that Levy is willing to back his managers/sporting directors. He won't give them free reigns, he won't pay way over the odds, but he will back them within reason.

I continue to see no reason to think that Pochettino would want us to go after Schneiderlin without regards to the cost.

Most reliable accounts that I have read said that it was made clear to AVB before he joined what our transfer policy was before he joined and then he asked for players that did not fit with this once he was appointed. When he did not get these players he had a row with Levy and then sulked. The situation this summer seems to be very different.

That's been my understanding too.
 
Most reliable accounts that I have read said that it was made clear to AVB before he joined what our transfer policy was before he joined and then he asked for players that did not fit with this once he was appointed. When he did not get these players he had a row with Levy and then sulked. The situation this summer seems to be very different.

Apparent ITK around this very issue stated that Levy has actually bid over the suggested amounts to try and get one or two of Poch's targets that have not come in.
Poch is happy that he is being backed.
 
Well, this still actually as I continue to think that your reasoning is unsound on this.

I wouldn't read too much into what AVB said post departure. Any manager will try to save face and the "I didn't get the players I wanted" is pretty standard. And most players signed seemed to fit Baldini's profile rather well at least, and AVB said he wanted Baldini...

We lose out on targets. I mentioned Dempsey, Sig, Willian and Mkhitaryan in the other thread. That's targets Liverpool missed out on under Rodgers - juts one's I remembered off the top of my head. You aim high, at players that you might not get, then you live with not getting them and move on to the next name on the list.

Look at the players signed under Ramos/Comolli, then the change when Redknapp took over, then the change when AVB/Baldini were in charge. Extrapolate from that and it seems pretty clear that Levy is willing to back his managers/sporting directors. He won't give them free reigns, he won't pay way over the odds, but he will back them within reason.

I continue to see no reason to think that Pochettino would want us to go after Schneiderlin without regards to the cost.

Firstly, a manager may try to save face, but I remember Ramos's remarks about being unhappy with Pav, Bent and Campbell as his only striking options, and I remember Harry's desire to get Cahill and Tevez and his eventual acquisition of Nelsen and Saha on deadline day. Extrapolating from those two instances, I can quite believe AVB when he complains about players being railroaded into his team and not being given the ones he wanted. As for Baldini liking them versus AVB liking them, didn't AVB fall out with Baldini as well by the end? Hardly conclusive proof of AVB lying post-Spurs to protect his image.

We did talk earlier about Joe Allen, and I think it's important to go back to him because in a way he seems like a microcosm of the difference between Levy and FSB when it comes to transfer policy. Allen was secured quite early into the summer, early on in Rodgers' era, likely before he'd had a chance to properly assess the importance of his signing. Swiftly signed, for 15 million (after an initial bid of 12 million plus Shelvey failed), on three times the wages that he was on at Swansea, with Rodgers happily commenting that he'd have paid a lot more to get him. Sure, his transfer didn't have the impact Rodgers hoped it would, but you can't deny that he was very probably ardently waiting for its completion at the time, much like Poch was in all probability very, very keen on the Osvaldo transfer in the summer of 2013 despite his later struggles. Was there a delay in Allen's transfer due to Rodgers being instructed to evaluate the squad first before making any decisions? No, there likely wasn't given the speed of its conclusion. Was there a low-ball bid to possibly acquire him for less than his release clause? Yes, but that is financial prudence, and more importantly wasn't that far below his clause in any case (12 million vs 15 million). Overall, the deal was swiftly concluded, with little quibbling over the price, based on a likely understanding that Rodgers saw the 'Welsh Xavi' as central to his plans for the coming season.

Fast forward to Schneiderlin. Saints are being informed of our interest in the lad, and his desire to join us, when public outcry arising from the many sales and the prospect of Schneiderlin being the next one forces them to set a very high price on the lad. What do we do? If the Guardian and the BBC are to be believed, we low-ball them with a ludicrously low offer (10 million pounds), before sending subsequent low offers that never rise to anywhere near what they're asking for (27 million). How does that look? To them, and to the player himself? Add in the long, long duration of this sorry saga (the last news of a rejected 17 million pound bid was a week ago, and this all flared up in late July) and you can see why it looks very much like Levy isn't committed to bringing Schneiderlin to Spurs nearly as much as Liverpool were to bringing Allen in. And I find it hard to imagine that Poch sees Schneiderlin as being less important to his system than Rodgers saw Allen. And yes, I know you'll refer to the fee, so allow me to preempt you with a suggestion: the difference in the fees is not the issue, the issue is Liverpool's preparedness to strike a deal for a player their manager saw as vital versus our seeming unwillingness to do so: given Levy's history with Harry (January 2012, the fabled 30 million pound bids that never came to anything the year before that) and AVB (Moutinho, Hulk, Villa, et al), it is easier to believe the latter being the case as opposed to disbelieving the former.

If Levy doesn't want or feel able to secure the majority or even the most important of the manager's primary targets, then that's still fine as long as he doesn't judge the manager on his performance within timescales that are more regularly applied to managers that have been backed and have been given the players they wanted, that's all. But he fell out with AVB pretty quickly, and that doesn't bode well for Poch. If we get Stambouli instead of Schneiderlin, it will lengthen the time Poch will take to implement his philosophy: that is almost a certainty. Yet I can almost guarantee that both Levy and the fanbase will be getting uppity by around next October or November at the latest. And that isn't fair, wise or a good way to run the club.
 
Firstly, a manager may try to save face, but I remember Ramos's remarks about being unhappy with Pav, Bent and Campbell as his only striking options, and I remember Harry's desire to get Cahill and Tevez and his eventual acquisition of Nelsen and Saha on deadline day. Extrapolating from those two instances, I can quite believe AVB when he complains about players being railroaded into his team and not being given the ones he wanted. As for Baldini liking them versus AVB liking them, didn't AVB fall out with Baldini as well by the end? Hardly conclusive proof of AVB lying post-Spurs to protect his image.

We did talk earlier about Joe Allen, and I think it's important to go back to him because in a way he seems like a microcosm of the difference between Levy and FSB when it comes to transfer policy. Allen was secured quite early into the summer, early on in Rodgers' era, likely before he'd had a chance to properly assess the importance of his signing. Swiftly signed, for 15 million (after an initial bid of 12 million plus Shelvey failed), on three times the wages that he was on at Swansea, with Rodgers happily commenting that he'd have paid a lot more to get him. Sure, his transfer didn't have the impact Rodgers hoped it would, but you can't deny that he was very probably ardently waiting for its completion at the time, much like Poch was in all probability very, very keen on the Osvaldo transfer in the summer of 2013 despite his later struggles. Was there a delay in Allen's transfer due to Rodgers being instructed to evaluate the squad first before making any decisions? No, there likely wasn't given the speed of its conclusion. Was there a low-ball bid to possibly acquire him for less than his release clause? Yes, but that is financial prudence, and more importantly wasn't that far below his clause in any case (12 million vs 15 million). Overall, the deal was swiftly concluded, with little quibbling over the price, based on a likely understanding that Rodgers saw the 'Welsh Xavi' as central to his plans for the coming season.

Fast forward to Schneiderlin. Saints are being informed of our interest in the lad, and his desire to join us, when public outcry arising from the many sales and the prospect of Schneiderlin being the next one forces them to set a very high price on the lad. What do we do? If the Guardian and the BBC are to be believed, we low-ball them with a ludicrously low offer (10 million pounds), before sending subsequent low offers that never rise to anywhere near what they're asking for (27 million). How does that look? To them, and to the player himself? Add in the long, long duration of this sorry saga (the last news of a rejected 17 million pound bid was a week ago, and this all flared up in late July) and you can see why it looks very much like Levy isn't committed to bringing Schneiderlin to Spurs nearly as much as Liverpool were to bringing Allen in. And I find it hard to imagine that Poch sees Schneiderlin as being less important to his system than Rodgers saw Allen. And yes, I know you'll refer to the fee, so allow me to preempt you with a suggestion: the difference in the fees is not the issue, the issue is Liverpool's preparedness to strike a deal for a player their manager saw as vital versus our seeming unwillingness to do so: given Levy's history with Harry (January 2012, the fabled 30 million pound bids that never came to anything the year before that) and AVB (Moutinho, Hulk, Villa, et al), it is easier to believe the latter being the case as opposed to disbelieving the former.

If Levy doesn't want or feel able to secure the majority or even the most important of the manager's primary targets, then that's still fine as long as he doesn't judge the manager on his performance within timescales that are more regularly applied to managers that have been backed and have been given the players they wanted, that's all. But he fell out with AVB pretty quickly, and that doesn't bode well for Poch. If we get Stambouli instead of Schneiderlin, it will lengthen the time Poch will take to implement his philosophy: that is almost a certainty. Yet I can almost guarantee that both Levy and the fanbase will be getting uppity by around next October or November at the latest. And that isn't fair, wise or a good way to run the club.

How does Rodgers missing out on Sig, Dempsey, Willian and Mkhitaryan fit into your narrative?

They paid a £15m release clause for a PL proven midfielder that the manager rated. We paid the same for Dembele in a similar situation. But that somehow doesn't even deserve a mention? Levy also paid up £12m to get us Palacios under Redknapp. And we obviously paid the 17m for Paulinho - a player it seemed pretty clear that AVB rated.

Seems to me that like Liverpool we've had failed and succeeded attempts at signing the players our managers/head coaches have wanted. It's too bloody easy to highlight their hits and our misses and claim that Levy isn't backing his manager whereas Liverpool magically are and retroactively fit history to that. Allen isn't a microcosm of the differences, it's one example out of many. What Rodgers has done is that he's found other options. When Harry didn't get Tevez the next name on his list was Saha? If so then really Redknapp was to blame himself. If not, then who was the gettable option? When AVB didn't get Moutinho, who was the next name on the list? Summer after we got Paulinho, that he seemed to rate. There never seemed to be a next, cheaper, option behind Moutinho. That left him, and us, up **** creek without a playmaker.

This is why I don't despair when we've reportedly moved from Moreno to Musacchio to Fazio. Could very well be that Ben Davies was our second choice left back target, doesn't bother me. Because that's the way it should be! Not just one name, not just one target, a list of targets in order. What will happen in central midfield and if I will despair or not I will wait until after the transfer window actually closes and I will give any new signing a chance to at least show on the pitch that he deserved to be on a shortlist before claiming that he wasn't even really wanted by Poch.
 
How does Rodgers missing out on Sig, Dempsey, Willian and Mkhitaryan fit into your narrative?

They paid a £15m release clause for a PL proven midfielder that the manager rated. We paid the same for Dembele in a similar situation. But that somehow doesn't even deserve a mention? Levy also paid up £12m to get us Palacios under Redknapp. And we obviously paid the 17m for Paulinho - a player it seemed pretty clear that AVB rated.

Seems to me that like Liverpool we've had failed and succeeded attempts at signing the players our managers/head coaches have wanted. It's too bloody easy to highlight their hits and our misses and claim that Levy isn't backing his manager whereas Liverpool magically are and retroactively fit history to that. Allen isn't a microcosm of the differences, it's one example out of many. What Rodgers has done is that he's found other options. When Harry didn't get Tevez the next name on his list was Saha? If so then really Redknapp was to blame himself. If not, then who was the gettable option? When AVB didn't get Moutinho, who was the next name on the list? Summer after we got Paulinho, that he seemed to rate. There never seemed to be a next, cheaper, option behind Moutinho. That left him, and us, up **** creek without a playmaker.

This is why I don't despair when we've reportedly moved from Moreno to Musacchio to Fazio. Could very well be that Ben Davies was our second choice left back target, doesn't bother me. Because that's the way it should be! Not just one name, not just one target, a list of targets in order. What will happen in central midfield and if I will despair or not I will wait until after the transfer window actually closes and I will give any new signing a chance to at least show on the pitch that he deserved to be on a shortlist before claiming that he wasn't even really wanted by Poch.

Alright then, I'll ask you a question: why were they second choice targets, and more importantly, why (if it is the case) would someone like Schneiderlin be a target above someone like Stambouli? And once you've answered that, would missing out on a whole host of first-choice targets in one summer be 'backing the manager' in your eyes? Honestly?

Regarding the 'other options' narrative, doesn't fit in the cold light of day. Harry did offer Levy other options. He reportedly wanted Demba Ba. Yet there we were scared off apparently by his knee problem and the problems with getting insurance that said knee problem imposed. And yet, I am damn sure he'd have been a better signing than Saha when it came to scoring the goals that could have taken us into the CL. Similarly, apparently Christopher Samba was Harry's second choice for the CB position. Between Samba and Nelsen, I know who I'd pick. Yet we ended up with the cheapest, most low-risk option on the last day. Why was that?

There is a limit to how much quality a manager's prepared to compromise on before targets stop being viable and becomes just unsuitable for the role he wants filled. The list cannot go on forever.
 
How does Rodgers missing out on Sig, Dempsey, Willian and Mkhitaryan fit into your narrative?

They paid a £15m release clause for a PL proven midfielder that the manager rated. We paid the same for Dembele in a similar situation. But that somehow doesn't even deserve a mention? Levy also paid up £12m to get us Palacios under Redknapp. And we obviously paid the 17m for Paulinho - a player it seemed pretty clear that AVB rated.

Seems to me that like Liverpool we've had failed and succeeded attempts at signing the players our managers/head coaches have wanted. It's too bloody easy to highlight their hits and our misses and claim that Levy isn't backing his manager whereas Liverpool magically are and retroactively fit history to that. Allen isn't a microcosm of the differences, it's one example out of many. What Rodgers has done is that he's found other options. When Harry didn't get Tevez the next name on his list was Saha? If so then really Redknapp was to blame himself. If not, then who was the gettable option? When AVB didn't get Moutinho, who was the next name on the list? Summer after we got Paulinho, that he seemed to rate. There never seemed to be a next, cheaper, option behind Moutinho. That left him, and us, up **** creek without a playmaker.

This is why I don't despair when we've reportedly moved from Moreno to Musacchio to Fazio. Could very well be that Ben Davies was our second choice left back target, doesn't bother me. Because that's the way it should be! Not just one name, not just one target, a list of targets in order. What will happen in central midfield and if I will despair or not I will wait until after the transfer window actually closes and I will give any new signing a chance to at least show on the pitch that he deserved to be on a shortlist before claiming that he wasn't even really wanted by Poch.

Rodgers missed out on some targets. We missed out on some targets, both this summer (apparently Griezmann, apparently Depay, Musacchio, Moreno) and last summer. The reason I mention Allen and Schneiderlin is because of the similarities between the two transfers: both rated as important transfers (if not key transfers) by the managers involved in their first summers, both managed by the same managers prior to their moves to Anfield and WHL, both central midfield lynchpins, both key cogs of their sides when Rodgers and Poch were managing them. Dembele was none of these things. Mkhitaryan wasn't. Dempsey wasn't. And if Rodgers missed out on Siggy, we definitely aren't getting BOTH of Rodriguez and Schneiderlin now, but I'm not complaining about that. You have to recognise the similarities here. For Allen and Rodgers, think Schneiderlin and Poch. Think Moutinho and AVB.
 
Apparent ITK around this very issue stated that Levy has actually bid over the suggested amounts to try and get one or two of Poch's targets that have not come in.
Poch is happy that he is being backed.


Makes sense and probably true. We'd be crazy not to explain the limitations we have in the transfer window before a manager comes in, it would be something for the manager and the chairman to fall out about immediately.


All the sounds we're hearing point towards Poch understanding this. He might still want players that we have been priced out of, but I can't see him making too big a fuss with prior understanding.
 
Alright then, I'll ask you a question: why were they second choice targets, and more importantly, why (if it is the case) would someone like Schneiderlin be a target above someone like Stambouli? And once you've answered that, would missing out on a whole host of first-choice targets in one summer be 'backing the manager' in your eyes? Honestly?

Regarding the 'other options' narrative, doesn't fit in the cold light of day. Harry did offer Levy other options. He reportedly wanted Demba Ba. Yet there we were scared off apparently by his knee problem and the problems with getting insurance that said knee problem imposed. And yet, I am damn sure he'd have been a better signing than Saha when it came to scoring the goals that could have taken us into the CL. Similarly, apparently Christopher Samba was Harry's second choice for the CB position. Between Samba and Nelsen, I know who I'd pick. Yet we ended up with the cheapest, most low-risk option on the last day. Why was that?

There is a limit to how much quality a manager's prepared to compromise on before targets stop being viable and becomes just unsuitable for the role he wants filled. The list cannot go on forever.

Because they weren't rated as highly as the primary targets?

I do think Levy can miss out on several (not quite at "a whole host" are we?") first choice targets and still back the manager. As long as the expectations agreed upon for the transfer window reflects that transfer policy.

Sometimes we end up with the cheapest, most low-risk option. Such is life. This was Redknapp's final transfer window, no? After he had publicly persued the England job, had a court case that could put him out of action for a while and was (in hindsight) on his way out of Spurs. I have no doubt Redknapp wasn't backed as much in the transfer market then as earlier in his Spurs career.

Rodgers missed out on some targets. We missed out on some targets, both this summer (apparently Griezmann, apparently Depay, Musacchio, Moreno) and last summer. The reason I mention Allen and Schneiderlin is because of the similarities between the two transfers: both rated as important transfers (if not key transfers) by the managers involved in their first summers, both managed by the same managers prior to their moves to Anfield and WHL, both central midfield lynchpins, both key cogs of their sides when Rodgers and Poch were managing them. Dembele was none of these things. Mkhitaryan wasn't. Dempsey wasn't. And if Rodgers missed out on Siggy, we definitely aren't getting BOTH of Rodriguez and Schneiderlin now, but I'm not complaining about that. You have to recognise the similarities here. For Allen and Rodgers, think Schneiderlin and Poch. Think Moutinho and AVB.

The reason you mention them is because post hoc they fit your narrative.

Again, if Allen really was as vital to Rodgers as you claim Schneidelin is to Poch why did he end up as a squad player last season?

And, again. Allen had a release clause, Schneiderlin doesn't. Had Rodgers failed I'm sure someone could have made out the narrative that it's because he wasn't backed with his key signings, how Mkhitaryan was the piece of the puzzle that was missing. And how getting Allen just happened because he had a release clause and no bigger club wanted him - he was the relatively cheap, low-risk option.

There are similarities between Schneiderlin and Allen, and there are differences. Continually highlighting the Allen deal ahead of deals for Coutinho and Sturridge (relatively cheap, low risk options) as the success factor for Rodgers seems very strange, and very narrative driven, to me.

It continues to be the case for me that if a manager or head coach needs one specific, (fairly) high profile, £20m+ signing to make his system work at a club then the shortcoming is not with the chairman or board. That's not how Poch has worked at Southampton, that's not how Rodgers worked at Swansea, and I would argue that's not how either of those managers work currently.
 
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