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Micky van de Ven

Our recruitment did an excellent job this summer. It was a tricky window because we knew (at least within the club) that Kane was leaving but perhaps not knowing the final amount. Obviously, Udogie was from last year so that was good work as well. Him joining up with the other new signings have made such a huge impact.
Scary to see this guy getting better, just hope other teams don't try to hack him down again.
 
papaspur said:
Our recruitment did an excellent job this summer. It was a tricky window because we knew (at least within the club) that Kane was leaving but perhaps not knowing the final amount. Obviously, Udogie was from last year so that was good work as well. Him joining up with the other new signings have made such a huge impact.
Scary to see this guy getting better, just hope other teams don't try to hack him down again.
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They'll have to catch him first!
 
I don’t want to get carried away but I’m hopeful that he Van De Ven will be a game changer for us like Saliba and Van Dijk were for Arse and Liverpool. Those teams went up a notch in quality when they joined.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I don’t want to get carried away but I’m hopeful that he Van De Ven will be a game changer for us like Saliba and Van Dijk were for Arse and Liverpool. Those teams went up a notch in quality when they joined.
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I think there's good reasons to get a bit carried away. Both with him and the partnership with Romero.

I don't think we can ascribe the kind of influential effect that Van Dijk had on the team around him. So much of the team has changed. I also don't think he's the kind of leadership figure at the back like Van Dijk was. Yet at least. But the partnership does give off some Vertonghen Alderweireld vibes and there's much there to like.

And, so far, he seems like a spectacular player.
 
I remember "who is the best" conversations with different opinions on either Vertonghen or Alderweireld in the past.

I still think Romero is the better player, but perhaps in the not too distant future we can have a repeat of those conversations with Romero and Van der Ven. Quite the contrast to how conversations about our centre backs have been in recent years.
 
I’m hopeful that he Van De Ven will be a game changer for us
He already is. His pace is the crucial element to the high line. I hope and pray he stays injury free because finding a replica would be impossible!
As you say, having the experience of Romero next to him, it's a partnership made in Heaven. I'm guessing that it would be easier to replace a creative player like Madders than such a super quick, super calm centre back?
 
lurker of old said:
I’m hopeful that he Van De Ven will be a game changer for us
He already is. His pace is the crucial element to the high line. I hope and pray he stays injury free because finding a replica would be impossible!
As you say, having the experience of Romero next to him, it's a partnership made in Heaven. I'm guessing that it would be easier to replace a creative player like Madders than such a super quick, super calm centre back?
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It's accepted knowledge that good CBs are relatively easy to find, so they don't command high prices -- unlike creative midfielders or strikers.

Finding a truly great CB though, or even a great CB partnership...now that doesn't happen often. Especially when you're expecting them to be good footballers and have some pace, while also being able to win headers and tackle. I think we might be on to something truly exciting here.

As an aside, compare what we've got now with the peak Poch team:

GK: Lloris (Vicario)
CBs: Alderweireld, Vertonghen (Romero, van de Ven)
FBs: Walker, Rose (Porro, Udogie)
DMs: Dier, Dembele (Bissouma, Sarr)
AMs: Son, Dele, Eriksen (Richi, Maddison, Kulu)
ST: Kane (Son)

It's still early days, but I think this is the first season that we can say we've almost plugged all those gaps.

And of course, we've got Bentancur to come back in. I think the weakest area in that comparison is our attacking foursome, which isn't up there with prime DESK, but it's not bad. Not bad at all.
 
FatBloke said:
It's accepted knowledge that good CBs are relatively easy to find, so they don't command high prices -- unlike creative midfielders or strikers.

Finding a truly great CB though, or even a great CB partnership...now that doesn't happen often. Especially when you're expecting them to be good footballers and have some pace, while also being able to win headers and tackle. I think we might be on to something truly exciting here.

As an aside, compare what we've got now with the peak Poch team:

GK: Lloris (Vicario)
CBs: Alderweireld, Vertonghen (Romero, van de Ven)
FBs: Walker, Rose (Porro, Udogie)
DMs: Dier, Dembele (Bissouma, Sarr)
AMs: Son, Dele, Eriksen (Richi, Maddison, Kulu)
ST: Kane (Son)

It's still early days, but I think this is the first season that we can say we've almost plugged all those gaps.

And of course, we've got Bentancur to come back in. I think the weakest area in that comparison is our attacking foursome, which isn't up there with prime DESK, but it's not bad. Not bad at all.
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The only one I'd question there is Dembele* (incomparable) but as a pairing, Bissouma/Sarr are streets ahead.


* Having said that .....AMs?
 
mephitis said:
The only one I'd question there is Dembele* (incomparable) but as a pairing, Bissouma/Sarr are streets ahead.


* Having said that .....AMs?
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Attacking midfielders. Or wingers and a no.10, whatever you want to call them. Poch's team was arguably 4-2-3-1 (before going to a back 5 later on), whereas I'd describe our current formation as 4-3-3, but you've got to make a comparison somehow!

Unless what you mean is that the current AMs aren't a patch on Poch's. Which is fair, but I can definitely see a glimmer there.
 
FatBloke said:
It's accepted knowledge that good CBs are relatively easy to find, so they don't command high prices -- unlike creative midfielders or strikers.

Finding a truly great CB though, or even a great CB partnership...now that doesn't happen often. Especially when you're expecting them to be good footballers and have some pace, while also being able to win headers and tackle. I think we might be on to something truly exciting here.

As an aside, compare what we've got now with the peak Poch team:

GK: Lloris (Vicario)
CBs: Alderweireld, Vertonghen (Romero, van de Ven)
FBs: Walker, Rose (Porro, Udogie)
DMs: Dier, Dembele (Bissouma, Sarr)
AMs: Son, Dele, Eriksen (Richi, Maddison, Kulu)
ST: Kane (Son)

It's still early days, but I think this is the first season that we can say we've almost plugged all those gaps.

And of course, we've got Bentancur to come back in. I think the weakest area in that comparison is our attacking foursome, which isn't up there with prime DESK, but it's not bad. Not bad at all.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on centre backs.

I think the same can be said about attacking midfielders though. Good AMs aren't that hard to find, great AMs are (or are usually expensive).

If it doesn't work out for GLC, Gil or someone else as Maddison's backup I don't think finding a good AM that fits the system will be that difficult. Probably we would want someone with potential for development, perhaps the ability to play multiple roles. That could make it more difficult.

The "problem" at CB is that we probably have fairly specific requirements for that role, and several of them. Ability to play in a high line, probably with good to great pace. Ability to defend well one vs one on the ground. Decent in the air. Good on the ball. Comfortable on the left. Good emergency defender.

Finding someone that ticks all those boxes, even at a "good" level I think could prove difficult I think.

I think at AM a wider different range of abilities could fit in reasonably well. Doesn't have to be a "Maddison replica", but at a slightly lesser level to make it work.

Though of course we should look to sign the best player possible. Current ability, potential, versatility, fit for the system.
 
FatBloke said:
Attacking midfielders. Or wingers and a no.10, whatever you want to call them. Poch's team was arguably 4-2-3-1 (before going to a back 5 later on), whereas I'd describe our current formation as 4-3-3, but you've got to make a comparison somehow!

Unless what you mean is that the current AMs aren't a patch on Poch's. Which is fair, but I can definitely see a glimmer there.
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Bit strong, but yeah. One's outstanding, one's good but has been better and the other one is struggling to find any form whatsoever.
 
FatBloke said:
It's accepted knowledge that good CBs are relatively easy to find, so they don't command high prices -- unlike creative midfielders or strikers.

Finding a truly great CB though, or even a great CB partnership...now that doesn't happen often. Especially when you're expecting them to be good footballers and have some pace, while also being able to win headers and tackle. I think we might be on to something truly exciting here.

As an aside, compare what we've got now with the peak Poch team:

GK: Lloris (Vicario)
CBs: Alderweireld, Vertonghen (Romero, van de Ven)
FBs: Walker, Rose (Porro, Udogie)
DMs: Dier, Dembele (Bissouma, Sarr)
AMs: Son, Dele, Eriksen (Richi, Maddison, Kulu)
ST: Kane (Son)

It's still early days, but I think this is the first season that we can say we've almost plugged all those gaps.

And of course, we've got Bentancur to come back in. I think the weakest area in that comparison is our attacking foursome, which isn't up there with prime DESK, but it's not bad. Not bad at all.
Click to expand...

I'd put Bentancur in the conversation. There are two big gaps in the comparison

1. Experience, lots of players in that Poch squad (Lloris, Toby, Jan, Dembele, Erikson and even Son) had quite a few seasons in top leagues behind them. Our squad is quite inexperienced
2. As you mentioned, Front line, Richi & Kulu as is stands don't have comparable output to Dele & Son (of that squad).

Romero & VDV actually has the potential to be better than Toby & Jan, something ?I didn't expect to say any time soon
 
braineclipse said:
I agree with you on centre backs.

I think the same can be said about attacking midfielders though. Good AMs aren't that hard to find, great AMs are (or are usually expensive).

If it doesn't work out for GLC, Gil or someone else as Maddison's backup I don't think finding a good AM that fits the system will be that difficult. Probably we would want someone with potential for development, perhaps the ability to play multiple roles. That could make it more difficult.

The "problem" at CB is that we probably have fairly specific requirements for that role, and several of them. Ability to play in a high line, probably with good to great pace. Ability to defend well one vs one on the ground. Decent in the air. Good on the ball. Comfortable on the left. Good emergency defender.

Finding someone that ticks all those boxes, even at a "good" level I think could prove difficult I think.

I think at AM a wider different range of abilities could fit in reasonably well. Doesn't have to be a "Maddison replica", but at a slightly lesser level to make it work.

Though of course we should look to sign the best player possible. Current ability, potential, versatility, fit for the system.
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That's a very good point. Angeball has very specific requirements for goalkeeper and central defenders, which pushes many to the limits of their comfort zones -- I mean, if a player was that comfortable on the ball, they'd usually have ended up in CM (and certainly not between the sticks!) some time ago in their career.

Whereas having 3 CMs makes that area much more forgiving than Conte's system. Sure, it won him the league with Chelsea, but I'd argue that most teams would do pretty well with Kante in the middle of the park (especially with an in-form Hazard in front of him). Ange's problem then is finding a combination that gels. In Bissouma, Sarr, Maddison and Bentancur, we have 4 very good midfielders with fairly different skillsets. I can see Ange rotating them, to suit the opposition, with PEH and Skippy in reserve.

I don't see GLC ever making it with us, and I've not seen enough of Gil to know whether he can take on that central role. Instead, I think Bentancur is our in-house Maddison replacement. Less creative, sure, but still pretty good, and hopefully able to give the other attackers a platform on which to build. I suspect that we'll suddenly see an upturn in Kulu's form when Bentancur's back on the pitch. Or Kulu could end up central -- I'm sure he's said in interviews that he sees that as a possibility.
 
Raziel said:
I'd put Bentancur in the conversation. There are two big gaps in the comparison

1. Experience, lots of players in that Poch squad (Lloris, Toby, Jan, Dembele, Erikson and even Son) had quite a few seasons in top leagues behind them. Our squad is quite inexperienced
2. As you mentioned, Front line, Richi & Kulu as is stands don't have comparable output to Dele & Son (of that squad).

Romero & VDV actually has the potential to be better than Toby & Jan, something ?I didn't expect to say any time soon
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I was about to agree with you about the experience point, but then, Poch's squad wasn't that experienced to start off with. Sure, Eriksen had played a ridiculous number of matches for someone his age, but Dembele hadn't really made waves and Sonny had only a couple of seasons in Germany. And Kane had only just broken through.

EDIT: Dele too. Straight from League 1 to the Prem, like he was born for it.

In our current side, I often forget that Vicario is 27 and has played his way up the Italian leagues, while Romero has at least as much as some of that Poch team. Bissouma, Madisson, Richi, and Sonny all have experience. Who does that leave? Sarr, of course, Udogie, Porro maybe, Royal, Kulu, Johnson (whom I left out of my original post). Despite their youth, our current side is more experienced than I thought when I started writing this post! Oh, and of course VdV, who has absolutely no right to be looking this good so soon.

Your last point is almost blasphemy! But then, I thought King-Dawson was pretty good before Toby & Jan came along. To be even having this conversation points towards Romero & VdV being a world class partnership. Hopefully they'll both stay in this form through the season and beyond.
 
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