Mauricio Pochettino

[Pirate55]

I don't think you can make a statement about a vast majority of 27 signings being lemons without there being a debate about it really....

Here are each years transfers under Poch (I could only find 26 signings, not sure who I have missed?):
Year 1: Davies, Vorm, Dier, Yedlin, Fazio, Stambouli, Dele,
Year 2: Wimmer, Trippier, Alderweireld, N'Jie, Son
Year 3: Wanyama, Janssen, N'Koudou, Sissoko,
Year 4: Sanchez, Aurier, Gazzaniga, Foyth, Llorente, Moura
Year 5: Nobody
Year 6: N'Dombele, Lo Celso, Sessegnon, Clarke

Looking at that I don't think his record was bad at all really.

Davies, Dier, Dele, Trippier, Alderweireld, Son, Wanyama, Sissoko, Sanchez, Llorente, Moura, Lo Celso and even Ndombele (while Poch was still here) all decent players, some of them excellent.

Of the rest:
Aurier - is a decent attacking right back, better than many give credit for. He's not as good as Walker of course, but that's why Walker was a £50 million player.
Sessegnon - I think he has everything needed to be a very good player and has already shown that in patches at Spurs. I think he'll prove well with his £25 million.
Wimmer - did a reasonable job as backup for a couple of years and we then made a pretty big profit on him.
Yedlin - bought as a young punt, we made profit on him and he is now proving a decent player at Saudi Sportswashing Machine.
Vorm and Gazzaniga - are fine as back up keepers go (many PL teams have worse than those two)
Foyth - quite a few of our fans seem to like him. I don't think he is a bad player, just one who hasn't really found a position yet. I expect he'll still have a decent career in football at centre half for a decent European team.
Clarke - I don't think it is fair to class him as a 'bad' signing as surely it's still way too early to tell. There were also stories that Pochettino didn't want him at all hence the immediate loan to Leeds.

That leaves as true bad signings:
Fazio (I remember Poch actually wanting Hector Moreno but the chairman couldn't do a deal for him with Espanyol)
Stambouli (I think it was Schneiderlin that Poch actually wanted). We also still made a profit on Stambouli when selling him to PSG.
N'Jie
Janssen
N'Koudou (Pochettino actually wanted Mane)

Irrespective of whether or not Poch did or didn't want those 'bad' players above they actually only lost us about £20 million in total. A drop in the ocean really in the wider scheme of things.

That actually isn't a majority of lemons at all, even if you shift some of those in the 'Of the rest' list down a notch in to the 'bad signings' group.

The first couple of years may or may not have been his direct influence. I am particularly referring here to Dier and Dele.

It is year three onwards that I have a problem with Poch on. We were flying high. We had qualified for the CL. We had world class training facilities and were building one of the best stadiums in the world. We had a phenomenal team - potentially on the cusp of achieving great things. We should have been able to attract the creme de la creme of talent - young, hungry English players that would have been keen to join "the project" and a coach who supposedly really did bring out the best in his players.

Furthermore, we did have money for transfers. Record transfer fees were paid for Sanchez, Sissoko (!!!) and NDombele. Significant fees were paid for Janssen, Aurier and Moura. Similarly with Lo Celso and Sessegnon. No one can pretend he didn't have significant money to spend on players. Frankly he did - and from year thee to six almost all that have had some time to settle have proved to be lemons. Some even went badly backwards in their last few seasons under Poch - Trippier, Dele, Dier, Wanyama, Rose and Sanchex in particular.

My final gripe with Poch era transfer business is the type of player he bought. Where were the leaders? Where were the winners? Where was the steel? What exactly was his obsession with wide attacking players? Especially as our system didn't play wingers! We had Son and Lamela, yet still bought NKoudo, N'Jie, Moura, Sissoko, Sessegnon and Clarke. The preponderance of these type of players has significantly skewed the balance of our squad and prevented us from strengthening in much more pressing areas. That is Poch's legacy.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

We were always going to crash and burn because of the high intensity training that Poch ran. Look at Dembele. Others got out such as Kaboul, because it was too tough for them.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Let me list, just from recollection, the players Poch wanted versus the players he got.

2014 - wanted Hector Moreno from Espanyol. Got Fazio. Wanted Morgan Schneiderlin from Soton . Got Benjamin Stambouli. Wanted Jay Rodriguez, also from Soton. Got no one.

2015 - Wanted Berahino. Got N'Jie. A failed move which ruined Berahino's career, incidentally.

2016 - Wanted Mane, from Soton. Got N'Koudou, after he spent 40 days in a hotel waiting for Levy to agree a fee. Wanted Wijnaldum from Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Got Sissoko. Wanted Zaha. Didn't get him.

2017 - Wanted Barkley. Didn't get him, or anyone, for attacking midfield.

2018 - Wanted Grealish, eventually. Didn't get him. Got absolutely no one, in a dereliction of duty by the board that still haunts us today.

2019 - got who he wanted, as I understand it.

In all the years he was here, he was only ever backed once like Klopp was backed, despite taking us to the same heights Klopp took Liverpool. He had to make do with second-choices and bargain bins, and the funny thing is, he turned them into absolute stars more often than not, despite that. Out of all his signings, I can think of maybe six that failed - Fazio, Stambouli, N'Jie, N'Koudou, Janssen, Aurier. And out of those, roughly 2/3rds were the bargain bin phalanx that Levy used to pull out to provide warm bodies where needed - Fazio, Stambouli, N'Jie, N'Koudou.

Blame lies on him for Janssen and Aurier, both expensive and high-profile mistakes. Which, out of 26 signings (many not his first-choices) isn't half bad. There are some still in the 'iffy' category, including Sanchez, Ndombelly and so on, and if you really want to, you can count them against him too (although in that case, you also have to give him credit for Lo Celso from this summer - the polar opposite to the frustrating Tanguy). Other than that, I'm really not seeing where this precipitous decline in his ability to improve or identify players came from.

We had finished 3rd, 2nd and 3rd and then decided to become the first British team in the history of the modern transfer window to make no signings - *twice*.

Thst probably has more to do with the drop-off in energy, motivation, fitness and mentality than anything else - utter stagnation, because of that dereliction of duty.

 

[scaramanga]

The best manager that we have had at Spurs since Terry Venables. Took us to the Champions League 4 consecutive times, thus hugely raising the profile and revenue levels of the club despite only being given the 6th highest wage budget and 17th biggest transfer budget in the country, I'm not sure any other manager could've done that and I doubt we'll see that feat matched in the next 20+ years. Poch also achieved this while getting his teams to play football that was great to watch. Not only that but he was also a likeable man who by and large behaved in the right way towards the press and match officials (Burnley away excepted - and I still think that incident must have been triggered by something said by the ref).

He did some pretty impressive stuff for us.

He also lost a cup final to Jurgen Klopp.

 

[thfcsteff]

The first couple of years may or may not have been his direct influence. I am particularly referring here to Dier and Dele.

It is year three onwards that I have a problem with Poch on. We were flying high. We had qualified for the CL. We had world class training facilities and were building one of the best stadiums in the world. We had a phenomenal team - potentially on the cusp of achieving great things. We should have been able to attract the creme de la creme of talent - young, hungry English players that would have been keen to join "the project" and a coach who supposedly really did bring out the best in his players.

Furthermore, we did have money for transfers. Record transfer fees were paid for Sanchez, Sissoko (!!!) and NDombele. Significant fees were paid for Janssen, Aurier and Moura. Similarly with Lo Celso and Sessegnon. No one can pretend he didn't have significant money to spend on players. Frankly he did - and from year thee to six almost all that have had some time to settle have proved to be lemons. Some even went badly backwards in their last few seasons under Poch - Trippier, Dele, Dier, Wanyama, Rose and Sanchex in particular.

My final gripe with Poch era transfer business is the type of player he bought. Where were the leaders? Where were the winners? Where was the steel? What exactly was his obsession with wide attacking players? Especially as our system didn't play wingers! We had Son and Lamela, yet still bought NKoudo, N'Jie, Moura, Sissoko, Sessegnon and Clarke. The preponderance of these type of players has significantly skewed the balance of our squad and prevented us from strengthening in much more pressing areas. That is Poch's legacy.

Moura, Sissoko, Sess and Clarke were NOT his first choices. How many times must the Sissoko story be told here for you to believe it? BTW what he managed to get from Sissoko would've been beyond Guardiola!

 

[thfcsteff]

We were always going to crash and burn because of the high intensity training that Poch ran. Look at Dembele. Others got out such as Kaboul, because it was too tough for them.

Kaboul was not good enough to be a top 4 player.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

The first couple of years may or may not have been his direct influence. I am particularly referring here to Dier and Dele.

It is year three onwards that I have a problem with Poch on. We were flying high. We had qualified for the CL. We had world class training facilities and were building one of the best stadiums in the world. We had a phenomenal team - potentially on the cusp of achieving great things. We should have been able to attract the creme de la creme of talent - young, hungry English players that would have been keen to join "the project" and a coach who supposedly really did bring out the best in his players.

Furthermore, we did have money for transfers. Record transfer fees were paid for Sanchez, Sissoko (!!!) and NDombele. Significant fees were paid for Janssen, Aurier and Moura. Similarly with Lo Celso and Sessegnon. No one can pretend he didn't have significant money to spend on players. Frankly he did - and from year thee to six almost all that have had some time to settle have proved to be lemons. Some even went badly backwards in their last few seasons under Poch - Trippier, Dele, Dier, Wanyama, Rose and Sanchex in particular.

My final gripe with Poch era transfer business is the type of player he bought. Where were the leaders? Where were the winners? Where was the steel? What exactly was his obsession with wide attacking players? Especially as our system didn't play wingers! We had Son and Lamela, yet still bought NKoudo, N'Jie, Moura, Sissoko, Sessegnon and Clarke. The preponderance of these type of players has significantly skewed the balance of our squad and prevented us from strengthening in much more pressing areas. That is Poch's legacy.

There is always money for transfers (albeit maybe dependent on outgoings) but it’s the additional money for wages that is needed for the key players that has always been the issue, no? We can and did identify good players that we could afford to buy but were not able to meet personal terms within our wage structure. Why is that always overlooked?

As for the players who you cite as going ‘badly backwards in their last few seasons under Poch’ : Trippier : his last season, not last few seasons, mainly due to carrying a WC injury; Dier : well documented illnesses in last season; Dele : debatable, just your opinion; Sanchez : equally debatable. Had a great season then dropped off - not unheard of for a young player but has looked good again this season overall; Wanyama : clearly injury related; Rose : less clear, injuries played a part but he has to be a Poch success story overall not a Poch failure.
It feels like you are looking for causes to beat him up over.
He did what he could with a very limited budget. he was not perfect and I personally think he was a bit too principled with players that led to them being frozen out when there may have been a better way of dealing with the situation. But still the best manager we have had in a long time and undeserving of a lot of the revisionism going around now.

 

[Cochise]

Loved the man. At our best he had us outplaying some of the best team's in Europe, but unfortunately our worst went on and on and on. He was never really backed by Levy, which is who should take the biggest share of blame for where we are now.

My only gripe with Poch were the games he played with the press regarding his future. Even before the Champions League final comments, he always seemed to be open to the idea of going elsewhere should the opportunity arise. The media love speculating and he always gave them just enough to encourage the stories which as a fan unsettled me.

 

[Pirate55]

Moura, Sissoko, Sess and Clarke were NOT his first choices. How many times must the Sissoko story be told here for you to believe it? BTW what he managed to get from Sissoko would've been beyond Guardiola!

If it did happen the way you claim, what kind of manager allows this situation to happen? How much did we spunk on those 5 players alone? You claim he didn't want them/ weren't his first choice. You just believe what you choose to believe - four legs good, two legs bad!

 

[parklane1]

Going round the houses with this discussion and it will always be that way, there will always be those that believe that Poch was not backed enough and who believe he was the bee's knees, and those who think he could not go the final step because he was spent.. Both opinions will not change no matter what anyone says and they will continue for years to come.

My opinion is he was a very good manager who gave me a lot of pride back in my club again and instances i will never forget. Sadly it went bad at the end, imo he lost the dressing room and some players seemed to have lost faith in him and his methods. We got to some very strong positions but blew it at the final step and i have said before about a "winning mentality" and that has to come from the manager and sad to say he could not show that to the players. ( i accept that some of those players failed to show it as well).

However saying that i will always be thankful for his work here and he will always be up there ( imo) with the likes of Sir Bill, KB.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

The best and the worst manager we've had in some time.

Worked wonders and then brick the bed, outbottling the world's biggest bottler in the process.

Old Timmy off the bottom of the table....he will be pleased.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Thst probably has more to do with the drop-off in energy, motivation, fitness and meteorology than anything else - utter stagnation, because of that dereliction of duty.

That's a bit harsh on the trust

 

[Finney Is Back]

He did some pretty impressive stuff for us.

He also lost a cup final to Jurgen Klopp.

To a Liverpool team that got 97 points in the league last season and were beaten only once (you must think this is incredibly impressive seeing as points tallies are what matter not where you finish in the league), and are 25 points clear in the league this season having lost just a single game so far.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Let me list, just from recollection, the players Poch wanted versus the players he got.

2014 - wanted Hector Moreno from Espanyol. Got Fazio. Wanted Morgan Schneiderlin from Soton . Got Benjamin Stambouli. Wanted Jay Rodriguez, also from Soton. Got no one.

2015 - Wanted Berahino. Got N'Jie. A failed move which ruined Berahino's career, incidentally.

2016 - Wanted Mane, from Soton. Got N'Koudou, after he spent 40 days in a hotel waiting for Levy to agree a fee. Wanted Wijnaldum from Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Got Sissoko. Wanted Zaha. Didn't get him.

2017 - Wanted Barkley. Didn't get him, or anyone, for attacking midfield.

2018 - Wanted Grealish, eventually. Didn't get him. Got absolutely no one, in a dereliction of duty by the board that still haunts us today.

2019 - got who he wanted, as I understand it.

In all the years he was here, he was only ever backed once like Klopp was backed, despite taking us to the same heights Klopp took Liverpool. He had to make do with second-choices and bargain bins, and the funny thing is, he turned them into absolute stars more often than not, despite that. Out of all his signings, I can think of maybe six that failed - Fazio, Stambouli, N'Jie, N'Koudou, Janssen, Aurier. And out of those, roughly 2/3rds were the bargain bin rude boys that Levy used to pull out to provide warm bodies where needed - Fazio, Stambouli, N'Jie, N'Koudou.

Blame lies on him for Janssen and Aurier, both expensive and high-profile mistakes. Which, out of 26 signings (many not his first-choices) isn't half bad. There are some still in the 'iffy' category, including Sanchez, Ndombelly and so on, and if you really want to, you can count them against him too (although in that case, you also have to give him credit for Lo Celso from this summer - the polar opposite to the frustrating Tanguy). Other than that, I'm really not seeing where this precipitous decline in his ability to improve or identify players came from.

We had finished 3rd, 2nd and 3rd and then decided to become the first British team in the history of the modern transfer window to make no signings - *twice*.

Thst probably has more to do with the drop-off in energy, motivation, fitness and meteorology than anything else - utter stagnation, because of that dereliction of duty.

When you look at that list above it is actually criminal that Levy didn't back him. It's not as if the players that Pochettino was asking for were virtually unatainables like AVB's demands of Hulk and Moutinho or even Redknap's demand for Tevez. Pochettino was asking for players from Southampton, Espanyol, West Bromich Albion, Crystal Palace, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Everton and Aston Villa. The only one of those that should've been too difficult/expensive is Zaha.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Moura, Sissoko, Sess and Clarke were NOT his first choices. How many times must the Sissoko story be told here for you to believe it? BTW what he managed to get from Sissoko would've been beyond Guardiola!

Pochettino wanted Sessegnon a year before we got him mate (probably to have a season as understudy allowing him to sell Rose in the summer just gone).

 

[thfcsteff]

The revisionism is sad re: Poch. We will not see his like again in my lifetime.

 

[thfcsteff]

Pochettino wanted Sessegnon a year before we got him mate (probably to have a season as understudy allowing him to sell Rose in the summer just gone).

That is one story I heard (and we saw in the press)...you probably know the other one I am alluding to.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Going round the houses with this discussion and it will always be that way, there will always be those that believe that Poch was not backed enough and who believe he was the bee's knees, and those who think he could not go the final step because he was spent.. Both opinions will not change no matter what anyone says and they will continue for years to come.

My opinion is he was a very good manager who gave me a lot of pride back in my club again and instances i will never forget. Sadly it went bad at the end, imo he lost the dressing room and some players seemed to have lost faith in him and his methods. We got to some very strong positions but blew it at the final step and i have said before about a "winning meteorology" and that has to come from the manager and sad to say he could not show that to the players. ( i accept that some of those players failed to show it as well).

However saying that i will always be thankful for his work here and he will always be up there ( imo) with the likes of Sir Bill, KB.

I don't think it can really be disputed that Pochettino wasn't backed enough. As I explained earlier over the past 5 years we have had the 17th highest transfer budget in England, that even factors in this last summer when he was finally backed in the market (to then ironically not get a chance to work with those 3 players that he wanted and got). Take away that summer window and we drop to the 20th highest transfer budget in the country. That is proof that he wasn't adequately backed.

I also think that the reason we didn't go on to take the final step was nothing to do with mental!ty but because the team were generally knackered towards the end of the season due to us having a smaller squad than our rivals due to our lack of transfer spending.

 

[scaramanga]

To a Liverpool team that got 97 points in the league last season and were beaten only once (you must think this is incredibly impressive seeing as points tallies are what matter not where you finish in the league), and are 25 points clear in the league this season having lost just a single game so far.

That's why it's referred to as "bottling" rather than "performing as expected"

Klopp always bottles finals, he didn't prepare his team properly for that final either. Fortunately for him, Poch outdid him on both fronts.

 

[scaramanga]

Old Timmy off the bottom of the table....he will be pleased.

Don't get me wrong, Timmeh would have fudged up much more given as much time as Poch was. Levy fixed that problem reasonably soon after making the mistake of appointing him.