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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

glorygloryeze said:
Tbf, in terms of AVB's second season, no you wouldn't have felt confident.
But are you saying that after the Everton late grab defeat early Dec 2012 when we started a good run, you didn't feel confident going into our games from then on that we'd most likely win?

Overall, atm Poch has been better than AVB (and considering the squad bertter than Harry as well). But let's not start sucking our d!cks just yet: we are due a bad game or defeat soon and we'll see how we REALLY are different to other sides then....
I know that we are in the results biz, but some on here have shown how they can switch pretty quickly, both for and against a manager or player (just look at some of the posts in the Lamela, Alli and this thread in August for examples..)

Loving it atm though! COYS!!:D
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I never felt confident with the AVB teams, tbh. Hopeful, yes, but not confident. They were just not convincing, bar the odd game, and I was on the edge of my seat in every game. With this team I'm much more relaxed, because it has shown game in and game out that it can dominate and impose its will.
 
Modric THFC said:
The reason we are in with a chance in the league is how all the other top 6 teams have completely fallen away. Poch is just 1 point better off than AVB after 14 games in his second season.
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AVB's point total after 14 games in his second season was not really problematic at all. I have no idea what you're getting at, but you seem to just be jumping to another slightly related topic instead of actually replying to what I'm saying.

This kind of cherry picking of stats does not constitute an argument.

Modric THFC said:
AVB played an brand of fearful football that got us cautious wins against the small teams. But once we were 1-0 down against a good side his side collapsed clueless with no plan b or team spirit.
Poch's brand of high pressure countering does better again sides trying to play football against up. We tear apart the big sides in the big televised games where AVB's team got hidings.
Our potential to beat anyone gives up a chance to mop up in this poor quality premier league season.
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Seems like excellent reasons to give Pochettino a lot of credit. And reasons to be somewhat patient when one disagrees with him.

But if you really enjoy the feeling of standing alone against the masses as the only one that dares to disagree with Pochettino (or however you spin it in your head) go right ahead...
 
Modric THFC said:
AVB played an brand of fearful football that got us cautious wins against the small teams. But once we were 1-0 down against a good side his side collapsed clueless with no plan b or team spirit.
Poch's brand of high pressure countering does better again sides trying to play football against up. We tear apart the big sides in the big televised games where AVB's team got hidings.
Our potential to beat anyone gives up a chance to mop up in this poor quality premier league season.
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It's a good point.
I've been thinking a lot over the last season as to why AVB's tenure ended up as it did. I had some early tip-offs regarding his character, but all that aside, the thing I noticed most of all was a deadly combination of increasing inflexibility, siege-mentality and a personality issue which seemed to leave him exuding an air of dingdongishness that was actually almost aspergerish and anxiety-driven. I have no doubt whatsoever that he accelerated his own departure due to a few things not going precisely his way. I supported him, as I always do the manager until they give you reason to not do so. He certainly started to do that! But I always felt sorry for him. I am told by people that his interview process included one of the best presentations those folks had ever seen, a near work of art I am led to believe, alas it seems he wasn't quite he said he was on the tin. But you've hit on a vital point - that of fear. I have to agree, especially towards the end we simply looked afraid because he seemed to be afraid. And further to all Poch is doing, I think the quiet confidence is such a massive thing. A shame with AVB, because I think the man is undoubtably a very good modern coach, but he appears to has issues which preclude him from ever dropping anchor anywhere long enough to establish a regime. Poch? Well, as you know all too well, I love the guy, and feel he will be here for a while longer.
 
you have to credit the structure Levy has put in place, since Jol took over the trajectory has been unquestionably upward, we had a bit of a holding pattern (for very different reasons) under a couple of short term hands in Ramos and Sherwood but Jol, Redknapp, AVB and now Poch have all taken us up a step, we wouldn't be where we are now without the work put in by any of them
 
afsoc4life said:
Ramos was good for us though. I still remember the Carling Cup with joy. The thwacking of l'arse is always a special memory. From Jenas to Steed raising his hands up in joy after scoring. What a day that was!! Made all the pain worth it.
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2008 was awesome. Definitely my 2nd best Spurs experience after 1991.

There's some irony that for the coaches like Jol and Poch who everyone is very fond of, only Graham and Ramos in the last 25 years have actually delivered the ultimate goods.
 
afsoc4life said:
Ramos was good for us though. I still remember the Carling Cup with joy. The thwacking of l'arse is always a special memory. From Jenas to Steed raising his hands up in joy after scoring. What a day that was!! Made all the pain worth it.
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he did well to win that trophy and obviously had a lot of issues to deal with, my point there was that he didn't do anything in my opinion to take us forward like Jol had done before and Redknapp did after him
 
people mock the Neville idea, but why not, we need to have any future transitions whether its players or managers, seemless. Imagine poch went and then we bring in someone like Pulis. Its a complete change of style and a squad overhaul again.

If we bring someone in with a very similar ethos as Poch, then not much should change. Manchester Utd got it completely wrong when Fergie left. We have got it wrong year after year. But if you look at Southampton, Barcelona, Dortmund as three examples of clubs who have got transitions right.
 
Shropshire Yid said:
people mock the Neville idea, but why not, we need to have any future transitions whether its players or managers, seemless. Imagine poch went and then we bring in someone like Pulis. Its a complete change of style and a squad overhaul again.

If we bring someone in with a very similar ethos as Poch, then not much should change. Manchester Utd got it completely wrong when Fergie left. We have got it wrong year after year. But if you look at Southampton, Barcelona, Dortmund as three examples of clubs who have got transitions right.
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Anyone working with Poch now would either be tainted by his ultimate downfall, or not experienced enough for take the top job.

We'd need to have the Swansea/Southampton approach of appointing someone of a very similar philosophy (rather than our recent flip-flopping between progressive and traditionalist coaches).

But the boot room concept doesn't work anymore. Livermore/Clemence, Hughton, Freund, Timmeh. Look at the Danny Blind disaster with Holland. Jol was a bit different because the #1 never got established. It's a nice idea, but doesn't work in reality.

Clean sweep, but similar philosophy.
 
braineclipse said:
But if you really enjoy the feeling of standing alone against the masses as the only one that dares to disagree with Pochettino (or however you spin it in your head) go right ahead...
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Blimey! Was that response really appropriate BE? Or are you just tinkled off with anyone who dares to disagree with you today?

I'm a big fan of Poch and never at any point took to AVB but am ready to concede that most of the points modric makes have a certain validity. I also consider it a sign of weakness when a poster resorts to insult and insinuation in their attempts win the argument.
 
alekaras said:
Yes, but did AVB's side play better football or put in the kind of performances that made us feel confident about upcoming fixtures? With this side I feel we can win our remaining 5 games in December and be sitting on 40 points. Couldn't say that about AVB's side.
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I sincerely doubt that your optimism or pessimism is one of the measures the FA use to calculate the final standings for the league.
 
the dza said:
Also, just to add re. the comparison with AVB's second season: yes, we are only 1 point better off after 14 games. But, in the first 14 games there, we had suffered 4 defeats ( 1-0 Arsenal away, 0-3 West Ham home, 0-1 Saudi Sportswashing Machine home, 6-0 Emirates Marketing Project away). Of the games we won (7 games) we only won two of those by 2 goals, and didn't get any wins by a bigger margin. Unconvincing to say the least.

Compare to this season, we have only 1 defeat (opening day 1-0 at Utd, via an own goal) and of our 6 wins, two were by a 3 goal margin and one by a 4 goal margin. So when we get it right, we can really punish the opposition, and when we don't play so well, we still don't get beat. And to be honest, we have been the better side in pretty much every game we have played this season. IMO, miles better than the AVB 2nd season side.
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You could also say that when we get it right we expend far more energy and risk more injuries than required to win the match.
 
scaramanga said:
I sincerely doubt that your optimism or pessimism is one of the measures the FA use to calculate the final standings for the league.
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It's a measure, however, of what the potential is. The original post was comparing AVB's and Poch's first 14 games. My point was when looking at each coach's first 14 games, which ones inspired more confidence for the future and indicated a team with greater potential. I'm assuming you don't disagree with that?
 
galeforce said:
"better football" is subjective
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True.... Although I haven't fallen asleep at a single game this season, which is a big improvement on season 2 for AVB (although I did get woken up by the opposition fans cheering goals on a number of occasions in the fateful Liverpool game!)

In AVB's second season I was actually starting to get disillusioned with going to WHL to watch Spurs. It was no longer an enjoyable experience. I'd had a season ticket for 20 odd years and gone regularly before that, but my passion had started to disappear. Pochettino has managed to restore that passion. I enjoy watching Spurs again now and look forward to my trips to the Lane.
 
Finney Is Back said:
True.... Although I haven't fallen asleep at a single game this season, which is a big improvement on season 2 for AVB (although I did get woken up by the opposition fans cheering goals on a number of occasions in the fateful Liverpool game!)

In AVB's second season I was actually starting to get disillusioned with going to WHL to watch Spurs. It was no longer an enjoyable experience. I'd had a season ticket for 20 odd years and gone regularly before that, but my passion had started to disappear. Pochettino has managed to restore that passion. I enjoy watching Spurs again now and look forward to my trips to the Lane.
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fair enough, its your opinion, one shared by many i'm sure, but it's not a measurement of anything and no element of football success is defined by it
 
scaramanga said:
You could also say that when we get it right we expend far more energy and risk more injuries than required to win the match.
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So goal difference and confidence isn't important anymore?

The energy expenditure and to some extent the injury risk is negated by Poch's emphasis on player fitness and recovery IMO.

I'd much rather be watching this team on top form every week than AVB's team on top form every week personally.
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
So goal difference and confidence isn't important anymore?

The energy expenditure and to some extent the injury risk is negated by Poch's emphasis on player fitness and recovery IMO.

I'd much rather be watching this team on top form every week than AVB's team on top form every week personally.
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Goal difference is obviously less important than points.

The confidence of a fan who doesn't particularly like the manager is neither here nor there.
 
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