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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

A lot of the ground work is done for a London franchise already, they sell out every game and have a high customer retention rate.
 
In one off events, like I said - something of a novelty. IMO there is a way to go from there to full on franchise raking in the big bucks.

Although, even when it got to that stage, why would there need to be an either/or situation between the football and NFL sides of the business?

I dont see that Spurs would or should be neglected at all.
 
galeforce said:
It's been 4 games for a few years, a full season is only 8 games, its not that much of a difference.

I don't think there is any reason for neglect either.
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I am guessing that a London based franchise would be selling out due to NFL fans wanting to see the visiting teams, as much as anything. Then after a couple of seasons, a fanbase is created.

As for neglect, it depends on the owner. Does Kroenke care more about Arsenal or the LA Rams? It's not like a new owner would see the club fall into the abyss, I'm simply saying that some people want Levy to go so we can reach the promised land with a new guy, when we could very well end up with a Kroenke type owner, who has far more concern with the NFL side of it and is happy for the football team to just tick over. And imo, because of the new stadium, I think it's likely that any takeover would be done by someone who wants a London NFL franchise.
 
galeforce said:
It's been 4 games for a few years, a full season is only 8 games, its not that much of a difference.

I don't think there is any reason for neglect either.
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Fair point, I thought it was less (in both the season and London games).

If thats all it is, club management wise, is it even that big a deal?

Obviously the NFL is massive, but on the football side we have 60+ games! An NFL season of 8 games (+whatever else) seems like childs play!
 
StephenH said:
Be careful what you wish for! @DubaiSpur

There are no quick fixes.

We put on a credible performance last night with many injuries against the purported “best team in Europe”.
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That's just it - credible performances. Not wins, not trophies, just credible performances, which earn us precisely 0 points.

The 'with many injuries' part is why we couldn't perform better. And that's because our squad is thin enough that it suffers when those injuries occur.

And believe me, I know it can get worse with other owners. But it can also get better - much better.

And I just think ENIC have gone long past their expiration date in terms of what they can offer - which is largely competent, utterly risk-free management expertise (via Levy), and nothing else. Whatsoever. Not even good commercial management, since (as per Swiss Ramble) we've consistently been the worst performer of the top six in terms of commercial revenue.

Are they actively malicious owners? No, certainly not. Are they actively beneficial owners, though? At this point, probably not.
 
ShipOfGoldblum said:
Good analysis and terrible, unsupported conclusions. We’ve been punching above our weight for a while, which is unsustainable this year for various reasons. The ones you raise about management and team stagnation are important. They resonate.

But then you jump to saying that we need new owners. Why? Overall, we’ve been incredibly lucky with ENIC. We may regress slightly. We could lose Poch, we could go back to being a Europa league team for a while, there could be rather more nights like Barcelona when we grudgingly admit to being outclassed. But that's all consistent with sensible stewardship of the club.
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They've not been bad owners, certainly not. But why have we been 'incredibly lucky' with ENIC? What have they put in, what have they *done*, that justifies this hyperbole? They have taken the club's own money, and spent it in a roughly competent, entirely risk-free way, in a manner that raises the value of their asset. Have they put their own money in? No. Has their reign resulted in trophies and titles? No, *hell* no.

And have they pushed the boat out when the chance to win titles and trophies has presented itself? F*cking no, not at all.

@BrainOfLevy made an interesting point a while ago, in that this crop of players and this manager has come too early for ENIC's liking. They didn't want to have to deal with funding a title-challenging team this early - their plan was for Poch to hover around 5th-6th place while the stadium was being built, and then worry about actually winning things long, long after that.

But I don't think that reflects well on them - in fact, just the opposite. Like with January 2012, when we were gunning for the title and received Louis Saha and Ryan Nelsen on free transfers instead of the more expensive strikers and defenders our manager requested. Like that, now we find ourselves in a similar situation - we found a diamond, a managerial gem who can get us punching above our weight and work miracles with no money at all.

And instead of backing that man and taking the risk to enable him to compete, we are content to let him keep working with absolutely nothing, floating around the top four, winning nothing and growing increasingly frustrated as a result.

Because to do otherwise would be taking a risk and backing him, you see. And we don't do that - it doesn't fit with our plan of vaguely competing at some point in the next 10 to 15 years, when the stars align (if they align).

I think that behaviour's fundamentally ingrained within Levy and ENIC. They don't care about winning things, and never have.

And that just exhausts me. We'll see more of the same, whether it's Wembley, or WHL, or Nike Stadium or whatever we end up calling it. It won't change. Nothing will be followed-up on, and momentum will always be lost because the club isn't interested in pushing the boat out when we are in positions like this.

Which is why we need new owners. And which is why I'm exhausted with them, and I'd rather they finish the stadium, take their billion-pound profit and leave. And I wish them well with their next venture afterward.


ShipOfGoldblum said:
The chance of winning the lottery, and finding a jovial billionaire (whose wealth comes honestly) determined to game FFP by any means possible, is much lower than encountering someone with a less long-term plan for recouping their investment. ENIC at least can point to the fortune they've already made. The next owner would need to justify a far, far higher price.

Hence, the day we lose Levy is likely to be a worse day than the day we lose Poch. Fortunately, it's likely to be more distant.
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I'm aware of the chances involved. I never said we were guaranteed a jovial billionaire who cares about winning things.

But Levy isn't all that great, and the structural issues behind why we win so little will persist with him, and with our penny-pinching absentee owner, no matter who manages us and whatever the stadium brings us.
 
Should we be spending money we don’t have on players?

We have borrowed to build as that’s a fixed tangible asset

Should we be borrowing money to buy players that are a variable cost and benefit?

Personally I’d say no. Once we have serviced our debt at the agreed rates we should then spend the money left over on players via wages and fees
 
DubaiSpur said:
They've not been bad owners, certainly not. But why have we been 'incredibly lucky' with ENIC? What have they put in, what have they *done*, that justifies this hyperbole? They have taken the club's own money, and spent it in a roughly competent, entirely risk-free way, in a manner that raises the value of their asset. Have they put their own money in? No. Has their reign resulted in trophies and titles? No, *hell* no.

And have they pushed the boat out when the chance to win titles and trophies has presented itself? F*cking no, not at all.

@BrainOfLevy made an interesting point a while ago, in that this crop of players and this manager has come too early for ENIC's liking. They didn't want to have to deal with funding a title-challenging team this early - their plan was for Poch to hover around 5th-6th place while the stadium was being built, and then worry about actually winning things long, long after that.

But I don't think that reflects well on them - in fact, just the opposite. Like with January 2012, when we were gunning for the title and received Louis Saha and Ryan Nelsen on free transfers instead of the more expensive strikers and defenders our manager requested. Like that, now we find ourselves in a similar situation - we found a diamond, a managerial gem who can get us punching above our weight and work miracles with no money at all.

And instead of backing that man and taking the risk to enable him to compete, we are content to let him keep working with absolutely nothing, floating around the top four, winning nothing and growing increasingly frustrated as a result.

Because to do otherwise would be taking a risk and backing him, you see. And we don't do that - it doesn't fit with our plan of vaguely competing at some point in the next 10 to 15 years, when the stars align (if they align).

I think that behaviour's fundamentally ingrained within Levy and ENIC. They don't care about winning things, and never have.

And that just exhausts me. We'll see more of the same, whether it's Wembley, or WHL, or Nike Stadium or whatever we end up calling it. It won't change. Nothing will be followed-up on, and momentum will always be lost because the club isn't interested in pushing the boat out when we are in positions like this.

Which is why we need new owners. And which is why I'm exhausted with them, and I'd rather they finish the stadium, take their billion-pound profit and leave. And I wish them well with their next venture afterward.




I'm aware of the chances involved. I never said we were guaranteed a jovial billionaire who cares about winning things.

But Levy isn't all that great, and the structural issues behind why we win so little will persist with him, and with our penny-pinching absentee owner, no matter who manages us and whatever the stadium brings us.
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The argument about whether titles are the be-all-and-end-all could go on for ever. If we can put that on hold and focus on styles of ownership, I have one nitpick, and one question.

Nitpick: the distinction you draw between "the club's own money" and "their own money" isn't meaningful. They are the owners, so what they are investing is their money.

Question: which owners of EPL clubs in the last ten years do you wish ENIC had sold to? I'm comparing ENIC to the short-sighted spivs and chancers who preceded them, you're presumably comparing against somebody else. Who?
 
DubaiSpur said:
That's just it - credible performances. Not wins, not trophies, just credible performances, which earn us precisely 0 points.

The 'with many injuries' part is why we couldn't perform better. And that's because our squad is thin enough that it suffers when those injuries occur.

And believe me, I know it can get worse with other owners. But it can also get better - much better.

And I just think ENIC have gone long past their expiration date in terms of what they can offer - which is largely competent, utterly risk-free management expertise (via Levy), and nothing else. Whatsoever. Not even good commercial management, since (as per Swiss Ramble) we've consistently been the worst performer of the top six in terms of commercial revenue.

Are they actively malicious owners? No, certainly not. Are they actively beneficial owners, though? At this point, probably not.
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We are the only team who has moved into the elite tier, 10yrs ago conversations were happening about European Leagues, and 5 were invited, now its 6

Im not saying Levy and Enic have zero faults, but i do think that as a foreign fan, who doesn't get the benefit of any infrastructure projects directly, you are viewing this through a different viewpoint.
 
imcallingbullsh*t said:
We are the only team who has moved into the elite tier, 10yrs ago conversations were happening about European Leagues, and 5 were invited, now its 6
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It’s a big thing to be fair
We are now dining at the top table which we were in the 80s and early 90s
Chelsea and city have brought their way in
Everton, villa and many others are too far behind now to join that
 
I'm with @DubaiSpur on his views on ENIC/Levy

Several times in the past they have had windows of opportunity to really push the club on in terms of on-field stuff and they've played it safe. Other times you could point to us having a coach who they perhaps didn't fancy long-term (Jol), a coach who was a rent-a-gob chancer ('Arry) or another who was said to proclaim to be interested in one way during an interview but want different things in reality (AVB).
This time they had a) a coach who values coaching, using youth players and b) a situation where we would be more attractive than our usual local rivals in that they had the dreaded Thursday night footy; and they still found reason not to push on in terms of on the on-field stuff.
The new fangled excuse of "the coach only wanted certain players or none at all" was rolled out by Levy at the recent AGM.

I think ENIC/Levy rather than wanting to get our trophy haul back to where it was in relation to the other top teams, are more interested in becoming Arsenal MKII where they rake it in from off-the-field stuff with constant promises of "doing things at the right time and in the right way."
I don't think they are very interested in the actual football side of things; we'll be a great cash cow for them from now on.

From a business/investment side of things you have to say fair play to them tbh
 
we probably will have to go backwards before we can go forwards.Doesn't seem like we are going to have much of a transfer budget in the near future unless we sell one of the crown jewels.For us that means 5-6th rather then 3-4th that the gooners were able to do.Its about keeping your nerve until we can full extend financially.
 
ENIC don't manage the team, they provide the infastructure to build and coach it - over a ten year period (a bit longer really) we have been at least the 5th best side in the country (2nd best once, 3rd best twice and 4th best 3 or 4 times iirc) and so its hard to argue that on paper the various managers we have had in that period haven't been provided the tools to win trophies - if you are strong enough to consistently challenge for the CL places at the top of the league you're strong enough to compete for, and win, honours.
 
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Alli would not have signed that contract without knowing Poch was sticking around IMO. Eriksen is trickier as I believe he wants to play abroad before the end of his career. I believe we will now make January signings a la Poch’s desires/move a couple on pronto in that window. Effectively, I have somehow convinced myself that our summer window will now be realized in Jan. Poch will be here for two more seasons minimum IMO.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
thfcsteff said:
Alli would not have signed that contract without knowing Poch was sticking around IMO. Eriksen is trickier as I believe he wants to play abroad before the end of his career. I believe we will now make January signings a la Poch’s desires/move a couple on pronto in that window. Effectively, I have somehow convinced myself that our summer window will now be realized in Jan. Poch will be here for two more seasons minimum IMO.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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Hi Steff, can i ask why you believe that Poch's desires will be realised in January when in the summer deals were supposedly "too difficult"; we all know that January is called a much more difficult window by many clubs...
Logic says if the club couldn't do ANY deals in the longer summer window, they will find it nigh on impossible to do it in January...
 
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