Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Gutter Boy]

Why? What do you see that makes you think this?

i) The way Chadli, Rose, Kane, Capoue, Mason, Dier, Naughton have developed this season - just like happened to a lot of the unglamorous players at Soton. Organic growth through coaching. Other players like Lamela, Soldado, Townsend (most refined performance in a long time against Asteris) have been showing positive signs too.

ii) The way our front 4/5 have been growing as a unit over the weeks, with the high point against City. We've not looked that cohesive as an attacking force since vdV and Modric left. Again, it's evidently being done by coaching as these are the same individuals who were hapless under both managers last season.

iii) The general growth of high pressing and, more importantly, urgency to transition the ball (cf AVB).

iv) For the first time I can remember, we aren't relying on the individual genius of a Gazza, Sheringham, Berbatov, Bale carrying a poor team. We've actually got to do this by putting a system in place that will in time work irrespective of individuals and will therefore be more enduring


I think if we integrate Fazio, Walker, Soldado and possibly Stambouli into the team over the coming weeks - to sure up the defence and have a CF on the AMs' wavelength - we'll see even more rapid progress.


So basically I just see some important green shoots.

 

[Notmegov]

i) The way Chadli, Rose, Kane, Capoue, Mason, Dier, Naughton have developed this season - just like happened to a lot of the unglamorous players at Soton. Organic growth through coaching. Other players like Lamela, Soldado, Townsend (most refined performance in a long time against Asteris) have been showing positive signs too.

ii) The way our front 4/5 have been growing as a unit over the weeks, with the high point against City. We've not looked that cohesive as an attacking force since vdV and Modric left. Again, it's evidently being done by coaching as these are the same individuals who were hapless under both managers last season.

iii) The general growth of high pressing and, more importantly, urgency to transition the ball (cf AVB).

iv) For the first time I can remember, we aren't relying on the individual genius of a Gazza, Sheringham, Berbatov, Bale carrying a poor team. We've actually got to do this by putting a system in place that will in time work irrespective of individuals and will therefore be more enduring


I think if we integrate Fazio, Walker, Soldado and possibly Stambouli into the team over the coming weeks - to sure up the defence and have a CF on the AMs' wavelength - we'll see even more rapid progress.


So basically I just see some important green shoots.

GB I whole heartily agree, I am more positive than I have been since bale left.

Sent from my GT-N8010 using Fapatalk

 

[Raziel]

i) The way Chadli, Rose, Kane, Capoue, Mason, Dier, Naughton have developed this season - just like happened to a lot of the unglamorous players at Soton. Organic growth through coaching. Other players like Lamela, Soldado, Townsend (most refined performance in a long time against Asteris) have been showing positive signs too.

ii) The way our front 4/5 have been growing as a unit over the weeks, with the high point against City. We've not looked that cohesive as an attacking force since vdV and Modric left. Again, it's evidently being done by coaching as these are the same individuals who were hapless under both managers last season.

iii) The general growth of high pressing and, more importantly, urgency to transition the ball (cf AVB).

iv) For the first time I can remember, we aren't relying on the individual genius of a Gazza, Sheringham, Berbatov, Bale carrying a poor team. We've actually got to do this by putting a system in place that will in time work irrespective of individuals and will therefore be more enduring


I think if we integrate Fazio, Walker, Soldado and possibly Stambouli into the team over the coming weeks - to sure up the defence and have a CF on the AMs' wavelength - we'll see even more rapid progress.

Fair points, I think the challenge for me is

- Bit of guaranteed selection for certain players - Ade/Lamela/Capoue
- Lack of proper usage of substitutions
- Pace/tempo/motivation, same issue as under AVB, when this team ups the tempo and passes the ball faster/forward we look a much different team than the toothless high possession team that we saw under AVB and in the first half against Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

I have to see those things addressed by Poch specifically

 

[Gutter Boy]

Fair points, I think the challenge for me is

- Bit of guaranteed selection for certain players - Ade/Lamela/Capoue
- Lack of proper usage of substitutions
- Pace/tempo/motivation, same issue as under AVB, when this team ups the tempo and passes the ball faster/forward we look a much different team than the toothless high possession team that we saw under AVB and in the first half against Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

I have to see those things addressed by Poch specifically

I don't get the Ade selection thing, other than he doesn't feel Soldado and Kane are fit/ready yet. Picking Ade over Soldado for Saudi Sportswashing Machine was the first major decision of Poch's I've not understood/agreed with. Although I'd also mention Kaboul's captaincy/continued selection here.

The alternatives to Lamela and Capoue are Lennon/Townsend and Stambouli. Lennon doesn't fit our system (by several accounts we were trying to ditch him on deadline day). Townsend is raw but I think is malleable enough for Poch to mold in time. And Stambouli is being acclimatised and eased in gently. So I'm not sure there are alternatives to those two at the moment.

Substitutions do seem a bit late, but again perhaps Poch would stick with players he knows can implement his system vs those he knows can't (e.g. Lennon and Dembele). I would like to see more Kane earlier in games though for whichever of the front 4 is being least effective.

I do think our tempo is quicker, and for me the key difference to AVB is that we do look to force the ball forward more - we are more purposeful. It's not there yet, but I definitely see direction of travel, which is what I really care about at this stage cf finished product.

 

[tynesidespur]

The alternatives to Lamela and Capoue are Lennon/Townsend and Stambouli. Lennon doesn't fit our system (by several accounts we were trying to ditch him on deadline day). Townsend is raw but I think is malleable enough for Poch to mold in time. And Stambouli is being acclimatised and eased in gently. So I'm not sure there are alternatives to those two at the moment.

Substitutions do seem a bit late, but again perhaps Poch would stick with players he knows can implement his system vs those he knows can't (e.g. Lennon and Dembele). I would like to see more Kane earlier in games though for whichever of the front 4 is being least effective.

When his system is not working then he needs to be more flexible and utilise players such as Lennon. With no overlapping right back we are crying out for width. Lamela is running in field, we are congesting the centre with the 3 behind the striker. Until Walker returns we need a dedicated right sided winger. I wouldn't include Townsend in that either as he would also cut in on his left foot.

I've only seen us up the tempo in fits and starts and only once at home against QPR. That is a major, major concern for me. I'm now pretty convinced its a squad problem as it has remained through 3 successive managers.

Others points are very good and do give some feeling of positivity.

 

[indianspur]

Everyone talks about Poch filtering out the rubbish and replacing them with his own signings, but he may bring in equally bad or even worse.

Honestly, is Fazio any better than Dawson? Stambouli better than Capoue? Davies can't dislodge Rose. We can only spend what we gather from sales and we no longer have a Berba, Modric or Bale to sell and raise funds.

Not looking good

 

[Gutter Boy]

Everyone talks about Poch filtering out the rubbish and replacing them with his own signings, but he may bring in equally bad or even worse.

Honestly, is Fazio any better than Dawson? Stambouli better than Capoue? Davies can't dislodge Rose. We can only spend what we gather from sales and we no longer have a Berba, Modric or Bale to sell and raise funds.

Not looking good

Paulinho, Dembele, Lennon and Chiriches should raise £40m combined - which would fund Rodriguez, Moreno and some kids. That's more the summer than Jan though

 

[Kingdawson]

Dembele isn't going anywhere.

 

[milo]

Dembele isn't going anywhere.

Dembele is not going to want to stick around if he is not in the first team and I do not think that he shows any signs of forcing his way in any time soon.

 

[diego_maradona]

Everyone talks about Poch filtering out the rubbish and replacing them with his own signings, but he may bring in equally bad or even worse.

Honestly, is Fazio any better than Dawson? Stambouli better than Capoue? Davies can't dislodge Rose. We can only spend what we gather from sales and we no longer have a Berba, Modric or Bale to sell and raise funds.

Not looking good

LOL. So you've seen enough of Fazio and Stambouli already to make those judgements?

Did you also think Modric was no where near as good as Carrick after the first couple of games you saw him? Did you think Bale was a poor mans Stewart Downing?

 

[diego_maradona]

Dembele isn't going anywhere.

Do you reckon Poch might still have big plans for Mousa?

 

[Mumorn]

Everyone talks about Poch filtering out the rubbish and replacing them with his own signings, but he may bring in equally bad or even worse.

Honestly, is Fazio any better than Dawson? Stambouli better than Capoue? Davies can't dislodge Rose. We can only spend what we gather from sales and we no longer have a Berba, Modric or Bale to sell and raise funds.

Not looking good

Fazio, yes.
Stambouli, yes.
Davies has improved Rose.

 

[Mumorn]

Do you reckon Poch might still have big plans for Mousa?

Once he starts him next to Stambouli he will realise he's made a mistake not playing them sooner.

 

[billyiddo]

why such the faith in Stambouli Mumorn? you seen him play much?

 

[LCLC]

I don't get the Ade selection thing, other than he doesn't feel Soldado and Kane are fit/ready yet. Picking Ade over Soldado for Saudi Sportswashing Machine was the first major decision of Poch's I've not understood/agreed with. Although I'd also mention Kaboul's captaincy/continued selection ct.

I do not see any surprise in Ade's selection against Saudi Sportswashing Machine and I predicted that I thought he would start. At home against a team who will sit deep it would be v hard to play soldado as he has no interest in holding up the ball. If he did start I guess the fear would be that Saudi Sportswashing Machine sit deep invite pressure, dominate soldado and hit us on the counter. Ade didn't hold the ball well yesterday but at least with him in the team we have a much better 'ariel option' and it will mean Saudi Sportswashing Machine will look to hold a higher line to prevent us the chance to win 2nd balls in dangerous areas. That would give us more space in behind and could help open them up. I think it was to be expected from a tactical standpoint.

Yes soldado played well against city but he really didn't play THAT well and he would have been even more of a disaster than Ade yesterday IMO. His finish at the end was also evidence that his confidence in front of goal is not great either. It will be interesting to see if he gets a start away at villa as that will be a game that will suit him - don't hold your breath though.

It really wasn't an unexpected decision in any way. However, Kaboul as skipper is looking pretty odd at this point. Another player not good enough for our team, yet is expected to lead us! I always rated kaboul but he is struggling badly.

 

[braineclipse]

Fair points, I think the challenge for me is

- Bit of guaranteed selection for certain players - Ade/Lamela/Capoue
- Lack of proper usage of substitutions
- Pace/tempo/motivation, same issue as under AVB, when this team ups the tempo and passes the ball faster/forward we look a much different team than the toothless high possession team that we saw under AVB and in the first half against Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

I have to see those things addressed by Poch specifically

- I'm not Ade's biggest fan (nor his biggest critic), but I do think going for some consistency in terms of line-up has been a pretty decent plan for Poch. Was a segment on Norwegian telly yesterday showing that we had played (or started?) 12 different players in the two midfield deep positions in the league last season or something ridiculous like that. Trying to (gradually) implement a new system, a team in upheaval from last season, a lot of players needing PL experience. Relying on some players and expecting them to improve with that trust is hardly a terribad idea.

- Disagree.

- I think there have been improvements, although we still have some way to go. To me it really does look like the team is trying to up the tempo, at least at times. But we're being let down by a lack of quality/experience/composure/movement.

Dembele isn't going anywhere.

If Poch could get Dembele player faster and more effective pass and move football it could be magnificent. I think he's in a boom or bust situation right now with Poch's new rule, like several other players he has to improve and somewhat rapidly or it's just not going to work out for him at Spurs. Rose has done it, Paulinho (so far) has completely failed. Dembele hasn't really shown much improvement, but it's still early.

 

[billyiddo]

do you want a forward to hold the ball up against sides which sit deep? surely the act of sitting deep allows your opponents to advance further up the pitch - the trick would be to pass through them, quick passing and good movement

 

[braineclipse]

do you want a forward to hold the ball up against sides which sit deep? surely the act of sitting deep allows your opponents to advance further up the pitch - the trick would be to pass through them, quick passing and good movement

Holding the ball up is less important. Having someone you can cross to, play direct to for flick on touches etc is more important. Having someone that can hold off defenders for give and go type passes with midfielders is also nice. Ade in form, in theory, offers those.

 

[Mumorn]

why such the faith in Stambouli Mumorn? you seen him play much?

Not often.

 

[Raziel]

I do not see any surprise in Ade's selection against Saudi Sportswashing Machine and I predicted that I thought he would start. At home against a team who will sit deep it would be v hard to play soldado as he has no interest in holding up the ball. If he did start I guess the fear would be that Saudi Sportswashing Machine sit deep invite pressure, dominate soldado and hit us on the counter. Ade didn't hold the ball well yesterday but at least with him in the team we have a much better 'ariel option' and it will mean Saudi Sportswashing Machine will look to hold a higher line to prevent us the chance to win 2nd balls in dangerous areas. That would give us more space in behind and could help open them up. I think it was to be expected from a tactical standpoint.

Yes soldado played well against city but he really didn't play THAT well and he would have been even more of a disaster than Ade yesterday IMO. His finish at the end was also evidence that his confidence in front of goal is not great either. It will be interesting to see if he gets a start away at villa as that will be a game that will suit him - don't hold your breath though.

It really wasn't an unexpected decision in any way. However, Kaboul as skipper is looking pretty odd at this point. Another player not good enough for our team, yet is expected to lead us! I always rated kaboul but he is struggling badly.

So, to me

- No surprise Ade started, but not due to it be justified, simply it's what Poch has done.
- I disagree about needing a target man, especially against **** sides
- Lamela, Erkisen, Soldado and even Kane have shown they can move the ball smartly, get past defenders and cause trouble.

There is no way not playing Ade would have made anything worse yesterday, even the goal (which hit his head vs. him moving towards it), Lamela was right behind him and would have scored if he wasn't there.

Kaboul/Dier are struggling and I'm not sure if it's just a quality issue, or training. I keep seeing far less talented defenders be much more solid, much harder to expose than our defense ...