Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Yiddo]

We can sit here and claim that we are improving but we do the same things we done 2 years ago. The team is not a young team anymore and alot of these players are experienced in playing in world cups and champions leagues.

 

[Baleforce]

Yep Ings, Maddison, Iheanacho and Mitrovic. CL quality players if I've ever seen them... I mean seriously?! This is getting absolutely absurd.

We’ve got better players without squad numbers already.

 

[Benny_Lad]

Yep Ings, Maddison, Iheanacho and Mitrovic. CL quality players if I've ever seen them... I mean seriously?! This is getting absolutely absurd.

Talk about read one thing and quote another.

Please point out in my post where I said those players are Champions League quality.

You’ve completely missed the point of my post. I threw some forwards names around to highlight that there are options out there who could possibly take some minutes off Kane in less important games. So far Poch doesn’t seem to want to give any minutes to the current back ups.

Maddison I mentioned as someone who could do the same for Eriksen.

I don’t have a handle on the whole of Europe as it’s not my job, but I’m sure there are plenty more out there.

 

[nayenezgani]

Talk about read one thing and quote another.

Please point out in my post where I said those players are Champions League quality.

You’ve completely missed the point of my post. I threw some forwards names around to highlight that there are options out there who could possibly take some minutes off Kane in less important games. So far Poch doesn’t seem to want to give any minutes to the current back ups.

Maddison I mentioned as someone who could do the same for Eriksen.

I don’t have a handle on the whole of Europe as it’s not my job, but I’m sure there are plenty more out there.

What you're asserting is that we should have signed players, any players because that's what transfer windows are for.

Only the players that you mention would not have strengthened our squad and would not have been used by Poch. Period.

You also claim that Poch isn't rotating the squad, that's absolute nonsense too. He's been rotating regularly so far, the season is still in its infancy too.

The likes of GKN and Sissoko may have fallen out of favour, but Winks, Aurier, Rose, Lamela, Moura etc have all been given opportunities now.

With Son back and Wanyama returning to the fray from injury, our depth will be fine once the squad has had a chance to settle properly.

 

[Benny_Lad]

We’ve got better players without squad numbers already.

Simply names I threw around to highlight the back up issue to Kane. Point being there can’t be no players out there that are better than the current back up, and surely an improvement would make Pochs job easier as he could give whoever it may be some minutes here or there.

At no point did I suggest those players are CL quality.

 

[Benny_Lad]

What you're asserting is that we should have signed players, any players because that's what transfer windows are for.

Only the players that you mention would not have strengthened our squad and would not have been used by Poch. Period.

You also claim that Poch isn't rotating the squad, that's absolute nonsense too. He's been rotating regularly so far, the season is still in its infancy too.

The likes of GKN and Sissoko may have fallen out of favour, but Winks, Aurier, Rose, Lamela, Moura etc have all been given opportunities now.

With Son back and Wanyama returning to the fray from injury, our depth will be fine once the squad has had a chance to settle properly.

I think you’ve got confused. My Kane back up discussion was separate to the squad strengthening one.

For example - I would have liked to sign a quality CM. CL quality if you like. One player to challenge others and add class.

Additionally - I suspect there are strikers out there that could fit in as back up to Kane if and when needed - as we dont seem to use the current ones.

See how they are 2 separate things?

Also - I don’t remember saying that Poch was not rotating.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Simply names I threw around to highlight the back up issue to Kane. Point being there can’t be no players out there that are better than the current back up, and surely an improvement would make Pochs job easier as he could give whoever it may be some minutes here or there.

At no point did I suggest those players are CL quality.

It's funny that every time someone says 'I'm not an expert on European football so I don't know everyone, but those were just examples. We should have signed someone' they are never actually able to say who.

We have pretty good back ups in all positions. Rose, Aurier, Sanchez, Wanyama, Winks, Sissoko, Lamela, Moura. Those are all players, when fully fit, I would be very comfortable seeing in our first choice 11 and I'd be confident they would do a good job. Vorm, Foyth, KWP, GKN and Llorente are squad filler, but they were bought to be back ups and that's what they are right now. Maybe we can get someone better than Llorente, who was someone we hoped would be better than Janssen, but without regular time I don't think any player that is almost certainly better than Llorente wants to come here.

A signing here or there, whether first 11 or back up, is not going to put us on another level. Operating on a different financial level would, and that's when the game will change. That's where we need to get to. All of this back and forth around a lack of signings really is pointless. We will be roughly where we always were come the end of the season. In the top 6, maybe 4th if we get it together.

 

[Benny_Lad]

Why is Mitrovic et al that much better than Janssen or Llorente at being Kane's back up?

Maddison wanted to be playing every week, not getting 30 mins hear and there and hoping to be rotated in behind one of our best players. More young players are wise to the idea that it's important to play first 11 football now. And these are reasons why it was difficult to improve us.

Lamela is a good player. Aurier tonight showed he was a good player. Winks is coming back to form. Wanyama hopefully will. In a month's time, our squad will look deeper again.

I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said there. My point was there must be a striker in between Kane and Llorente/Jansen (quality-wise) that could have been courted.

I was unaware of the Maddison regular football demands. Link?

I love the current squad. I just think Poch would probably have liked 1 or 2 additions to keep things fresh and give options. Particularly that 1 star addition to challenge others.

 

[Benny_Lad]

It's funny that every time someone says 'I'm not an expert on European football so I don't know everyone, but those were just examples. We should have signed someone' they are never actually able to say who.

We have pretty good back ups in all positions. Rose, Aurier, Sanchez, Wanyama, Winks, Sissoko, Lamela, Moura. Those are all players, when fully fit, I would be very comfortable seeing in our first choice 11 and I'd be confident they would do a good job. Vorm, Foyth, KWP, GKN and Llorente are squad filler, but they were bought to be back ups and that's what they are right now. Maybe we can get someone better than Llorente, who was someone we hoped would be better than Janssen, but without regular time I don't think any player that is almost certainly better than Llorente wants to come here.

A signing here or there, whether first 11 or back up, is not going to put us on another level. Operating on a different financial level would, and that's when the game will change. That's where we need to get to. All of this back and forth around a lack of signings really is pointless. We will be roughly where we always were come the end of the season. In the top 6, maybe 4th if we get it together.

I think the above proves my point.

We’ve just finished 3 2 3 and with a couple of subtle additions and a marquee signing I think we’d have been set for similar.

As it is you suggest we are looking at top 6 - maybe 4th.

Ps - I agree re: having good back up in most places - hence wholesale not needed.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I think the above proves my point.

We’ve just finished 3 2 3 and with a couple of subtle additions and a marquee signing I think we’d have been set for similar.

As it is you suggest we are looking at top 6 - maybe 4th.

Ps - I agree re: having good back up in most places - hence wholesale not needed.

I don't think we are looking at top 6 at all, in the sense that it's the limit of our ambition. I think given the challenges we face this season to say we will still be top 6 is good. But the calculation needs to be, how much does this potential new signing both increase the likelihood of putting us ahead of our competition, and the likelihood that it puts us in a more financially risky plane.

Liverpool and Klopp actually waited and held off - they decided to pay big sums to players that they had been pursuing for a long time and didn't sign second choices. Klopp decided he'd rather go for what he has and improve when they came up. It is not wildly dissimilar to where we are now, except they have more resources than us.

Really in the bigger picture none of this debates matter too much - if we get into the stadium to get more predictable, repeatable money, we will more than likely easily compete with the other top clubs and be a more attractive buy out opportunity for a big global player. People can be onboard with Levy's strategy of diverting our resources into long term infrastructure like the stadium and training ground rather than short term, depreciating assets like players, or they don't have to be. But that's where we are. He has chosen to establish us as a top 6 club who if they do a lot of things right, can finish consistently in the top 4. To be a consistent and true title challenger, I think that requires the next step of the stadium. No one signing here or there is going to guarantee it with consistency. We may get a great season or two by diverting more resources to short term fixes, but if it kept us away from the stadium or took us longer to get there, or meant we had lumpier finishes like Chelsea go through, I wouldn't agree with that strategy. Because we don't have Roman piling in more money to get us back on top. We have to be more careful.

Getting to the stadium is the most important thing for our long term success. We will have bad runs of form many times until that point. They won't necessarily mean the strategy to get there is the wrong one.

 

[Hootnow]

It's funny that every time someone says 'I'm not an expert on European football so I don't know everyone, but those were just examples. We should have signed someone' they are never actually able to say who.

We have pretty good back ups in all positions. Rose, Aurier, Sanchez, Wanyama, Winks, Sissoko, Lamela, Moura. Those are all players, when fully fit, I would be very comfortable seeing in our first choice 11 and I'd be confident they would do a good job. Vorm, Foyth, KWP, GKN and Llorente are squad filler, but they were bought to be back ups and that's what they are right now. Maybe we can get someone better than Llorente, who was someone we hoped would be better than Janssen, but without regular time I don't think any player that is almost certainly better than Llorente wants to come here.

A signing here or there, whether first 11 or back up, is not going to put us on another level. Operating on a different financial level would, and that's when the game will change. That's where we need to get to. All of this back and forth around a lack of signings really is pointless. We will be roughly where we always were come the end of the season. In the top 6, maybe 4th if we get it together.

We've had this discussion before though. It isn't funny at all, it is in fact fantastical to claim that there are no players in Europe who we could have signed who could have improved us.

I have given multiple examples in the past of players we ourselves have signed that most of our fan base would not necessarily have known or even given as examples of players we should be chasing. I'm sure most Spurs fans wouldn't have said, we need to get Dele, Dier. Trippier from relegated Burnley will be good. Wanyama and Alderweireld were not immediately accepted as good choices by many of our fans, who didn't see the big fuss. That 16 year old left winger from Leeds we signed for 1 million and ended up becoming our lb probably wasn't at the top of many lists either. Probably most of our squad is like this actually.

I don't know why you think it is the job of the fan at home to provide lists of players from across Europe who we could have signed. That isn't their job. They are not paid to do that.

I don't have to be an expert on international trade agreements or negotiation to recognise that Theresa May is doing a brick job with Brexit. And I don't need to lay out my own personal manifesto to be able to say that she should be doing a better job.

I have a bit of a problem with this tbh. I've said from a while ago that I think the stadium has become bigger and bigger in peoples' minds since its inception. It will allow us to compete with the Manchester clubs, the Reals and Barcelonas. Realistically, it won't though. Financially, the commercial deals are the ones that make the big money now (and the TV money in the UK for everyone). The stadium will help bridge a gap, perhaps bring us closer to Liverpool and Arsenal but the others are a distant prospect.

I'm also concerned about naming rights deals, commercial deals, player retention and crowds if we end up back in the EL next season. Things are not always linear in football.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

We've had this discussion before though. It isn't funny at all, it is in fact fantastical to claim that there are no players in Europe who we could have signed who could have improved us.

I have given multiple examples in the past of players we ourselves have signed that most of our fan base would not necessarily have known or even given as examples of players we should be chasing. I'm sure most Spurs fans wouldn't have said, we need to get Dele, Dier. Trippier from relegated Burnley will be good. Wanyama and Alderweireld were not immediately accepted as good choices by many of our fans, who didn't see the big fuss. That 16 year old left winger from Leeds we signed for 1 million and ended up becoming our lb probably wasn't at the top of many lists either. Probably most of our squad is like this actually.

I don't know why you think it is the job of the fan at home to provide lists of players from across Europe who we could have signed. That isn't their job. They are not paid to do that.

I don't have to be an expert on international trade agreements or negotiation to recognise that Theresa May is doing a brick job with Brexit. And I don't need to lay out my own personal manifesto to be able to say that she should be doing a better job.

I have a bit of a problem with this tbh. I've said from a while ago that I think the stadium has become bigger and bigger in peoples' minds since its inception. It will allow us to compete with the Manchester clubs, the Reals and Barcelonas. Realistically, it won't though. Financially, the commercial deals are the ones that make the big money now (and the TV money in the UK for everyone). The stadium will help bridge a gap, perhaps bring us closer to Liverpool and Arsenal but the others are a distant prospect.

I'm also concerned about naming rights deals, commercial deals, player retention and crowds if we end up back in the EL next season. Things are not always linear in football.

I don’t think the stadium in and of itself will help us compete with Manchester and Barca. I do think it will bring us closer to Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal and make us a more attractive acquisition target for a bigger owner than ENIC to take us on the next part of the journey.

As for signings, think where we are now vs where we were when those players were signed. Where a Dier could come in and be an improvement, but also have the room to fail. The bulk of this squad is coming to the end of its time together, but this wasn’t the summer we could shift them out and make the space we needed. So we still have Toby etc. The room for definite improvement, in line with our financial constraints, is very small. Given how long it takes for new signings to settle into Poch’s way, I can see why it was judged that we stick rather than twist and wait until next summer.

We have good back ups across a variety of positions. I know who the obvious sales were, I’m just not sure who the definite improvements were. There’s a whole world of footballers out there but we’re the awkward spot of being a top 4 club with top 6 finances trying to become a consistent top 2 team. Not easy.

 

[Hootnow]

I don’t think the stadium in and of itself will help us compete with Manchester and Barca. I do think it will bring us closer to Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal and make us a more attractive acquisition target for a bigger owner than ENIC to take us on the next part of the journey.

As for signings, think where we are now vs where we were when those players were signed. Where a Dier could come in and be an improvement, but also have the room to fail. The bulk of this squad is coming to the end of its time together, but this wasn’t the summer we could shift them out and make the space we needed. So we still have Toby etc. The room for definite improvement, in line with our financial constraints, is very small. Given how long it takes for new signings to settle into Poch’s way, I can see why it was judged that we stick rather than twist and wait until next summer.

We have good back ups across a variety of positions. I know who the obvious sales were, I’m just not sure who the definite improvements were. There’s a whole world of footballers out there but we’re the awkward spot of being a top 4 club with top 6 finances trying to become a consistent top 2 team. Not easy.

Fair enough. I don't think we'll ever compete consistently with those clubs tbh, barring a City style takeover but the hope is that we are on enough of a level footing that we can finish in the CL places consistently and win some trophies as well. And not spend less than Crystal Palace.

That is irrelevent though really. We still have to make those kinds of signings, it is in fact more important to do so if we have reached this level and cannot pay the sums needed to buy the finished products. It is concerning if the bulk of this squad is coming to the end of its time together because one of our main advantages over the other richer clubs has been our stability and continuity. I don't want to see a summer where Alderweireld, Rose, Dembele, Wanyama, Eriksen (for instance) all leave. Because we don't have ready made replacements (really) for any of those. We would need to buy at least another cb as even if we think Sanchez is fully ready, we'd only have 3 senior cbs. We'd need to buy a second lb. We'd need to renovate our whole central midfield and we'd need to replace our main creative player. That is not something we should have to be doing over 1 or 2 summers and considering our history with big transfer upheavals, it is not something I feel confident in us doing well.

Also, considering it takes signings so long to get used to Poch's way of playing, we're saying that we'll buy a player next summer, to be ready the January after if we're lucky or maybe the summer after that, for positions we need now? How is that the case?

Incidentally, Moura is another to add onto the list. How many Spurs fans would have mentioned him before we signed him this January?

 

[metalgear]

Why does it take so long to get new players going under Poch? Liverpool have them off and running quite immediately.

And why are we not bleeding more youngsters this season, when we didnt reinforce and are said to have a fantastic academy...

I know some things are out of Poch's hands but i think that theres more that he can do.


Sent from my SM-G960F using Fapatalk

 

[Legohamster]

Why does it take so long to get new players going under Poch? Liverpool have them off and running quite immediately.

And why are we not bleeding more youngsters this season, when we didnt reinforce and are said to have a fantastic academy...

I know some things are out of Poch's hands but i think that theres more that he can do.


Sent from my SM-G960F using Fapatalk

The academy thing is currently a bit of a myth really isnt it?

 

[harr1984]

We've had this discussion before though. It isn't funny at all, it is in fact fantastical to claim that there are no players in Europe who we could have signed who could have improved us.

I have given multiple examples in the past of players we ourselves have signed that most of our fan base would not necessarily have known or even given as examples of players we should be chasing. I'm sure most Spurs fans wouldn't have said, we need to get Dele, Dier. Trippier from relegated Burnley will be good. Wanyama and Alderweireld were not immediately accepted as good choices by many of our fans, who didn't see the big fuss. That 16 year old left winger from Leeds we signed for 1 million and ended up becoming our lb probably wasn't at the top of many lists either. Probably most of our squad is like this actually.

I don't know why you think it is the job of the fan at home to provide lists of players from across Europe who we could have signed. That isn't their job. They are not paid to do that.

I don't have to be an expert on international trade agreements or negotiation to recognise that Theresa May is doing a brick job with Brexit. And I don't need to lay out my own personal manifesto to be able to say that she should be doing a better job.

I have a bit of a problem with this tbh. I've said from a while ago that I think the stadium has become bigger and bigger in peoples' minds since its inception. It will allow us to compete with the Manchester clubs, the Reals and Barcelonas. Realistically, it won't though. Financially, the commercial deals are the ones that make the big money now (and the TV money in the UK for everyone). The stadium will help bridge a gap, perhaps bring us closer to Liverpool and Arsenal but the others are a distant prospect.

I'm also concerned about naming rights deals, commercial deals, player retention and crowds if we end up back in the EL next season. Things are not always linear in football.

Agree whole heartedly, this whole it’s so tough to improve on what we have is absolute nonsense and just some Spurs fans over rating our players. Kane, Eriksen, Jan and Toby if mentally right and Lloris are the only ones that we realistically would struggle to replace. There are better out there in other positions, whether they are gettable or not is a different question but let’s not claim our squad is so good it is that hard to upgrade. It really isn’t....

 

[DubaiSpur]

We can sit here and claim that we are improving but we do the same things we done 2 years ago. The team is not a young team anymore and alot of these players are experienced in playing in world cups and champions leagues.

No use if the players don't learn anything from the experience, though. And I really don't think they have, since, as you mentioned, they're doing the exact same things they were doing two years ago - or even four years ago.

 

[SubZero]

Just like players can get too "comfortable", so can the manager. I would like to see Pochettino earn his managerial salt at this crucial stage. I would never want to see him slate players publicly, but I would like to see that we don't just sit and wait for things to sort them out by themselves. Bench Davies, because while Rose can be worse he also has a much higher ceiling. Bench Kane, because it's not enough to be good, the team comes first. Bench Dier, because it seems to me that he thinks he's a much bigger star than he is at the moment. Start Lamela for now. While he's not extremely good at it at least he takes matters into his own hands and tries to make things happen, not just doing the same thing over and over again, waiting for THAT pass or opening to magically appear. Show the starters, as well as the bench, that you have to be sharp and at your best to play for Tottenham Hotspur.

What worries me the most, is that I see very few signs of the factors I loved just a couple of years ago. Team spirit, pressing and work rate, movement and focus. Seeing Kane throw his arms in the air for not getting the ball while standing a yard offside made my heart drop a little. Give him some rest and let Son and Moura deputize for him at times, until his kids stops crying at night or his ankle gets better or whatever is keeping him down. Rest Eriksen as well if needed, I'd rather miss his beautiful playmaking in some "easier" matches than have him playing tired for the entire season.

Now, I'm not saying that we're in some crisis or something, but I'm not liking what I see regardless of the results. I cannot help but thinking that the uncertainty about the summer transfers and the stadium situation has something to do with it as well.

 

[Legohamster]

I wonder if he regrets signing so quickly, maybe from his point of view it would have been better to say he will sign after the window and see if Levy will pull through on the signings.

 

[Baleforce]

No use if the players don't learn anything from the experience, though. And I really don't think they have, since, as you mentioned, they're doing the exact same things they were doing two years ago - or even four years ago.

True, every time there is an embarrassing result we get told they will learn from it, then it happens again.